mehtastic
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Posts: 1,335
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 14, 2023 12:59:29 GMT -5
So far, a decent player-started thread with minimal staff interference/bootlicking, albeit with a stupid premise. Closing down the Discord server or the GDB doesn't change staff's attitude towards players - it simply lowers the extent to which it can be witnessed.
Anyway, I don't know how it can be any more clear than it is right now that staff don't respect the players' intelligence or time. The poll on which tribes to close was literally a trollpost. Staff routinely act rude to the players, and when the players protest, the staff lecture the players on how not to be rude. The players consistently take abuse from the staff. Even when there are different staff members, the shit rises to the top and the cycle starts all over again.
How do players not realize at this point that staff don't respect them? That nothing is going to change, and the only thing you can do is just walk away for the sake of your own sanity? That just closing down the Discord server or the GDB (or both) just sweeps stuff under the rug? Is the silly desert game that good that you have to delude yourself into thinking it's worth playing, even when all evidence suggests otherwise?
edit: Thread's already locked lmao. edit2: Thread's not locked anymore. Funny how that happens
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 14, 2023 17:31:58 GMT -5
Would someone like to explain wtf happened. Kinda banned from the discord
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
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Posts: 1,335
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 14, 2023 18:15:06 GMT -5
Would someone like to explain wtf happened. Kinda banned from the discord the tl;dr is that the players & staff were discussing the GDB thread "What things should we close?" (https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58997.0.html) and things started to get heated because staff basically admitted they were trolling the players with that thread. They don't intend to close anything (or at least that's their claim). Most of the discussion is deleted and the staff banned Shabago from the Discord server for a week, and banned Bebop as well (don't know if/when that expires).
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 14, 2023 18:15:58 GMT -5
Shabago is using Elon Musk's Twitter playbook I see
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jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 139
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Post by jenki on Feb 14, 2023 23:49:44 GMT -5
They should close the Blackwing elves the Thryzn. It's an ISO clan for karma players/staff pets that isn't contributing to the rest of the playerbase.
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Post by ocotilloskewers on Feb 15, 2023 1:46:45 GMT -5
They should close the Blackwing elves the Thryzn. It's an ISO clan for karma players/staff pets that isn't contributing to the rest of the playerbase.
I'd say the introduction of Thryzn (and their safe fairy land in the corner of the world) are what brought the general unrest and malaise that's happening in ArmageddonMUD's community right now, aswell as the Mul Outpost being allowed to have a large permanent population right after this release. I was told there was more then 15+ PCs in that corner of the world during that clown show war HRPT. Most were Thryzn, Half-Giants, Muls and an assortment of magickers.
This totally demolished city play into more of a wreck then it already was to begin with. Why bother being some dingy AoD recruit all when your opponents are this unbeatable mass of high karma races, guilds, and constantly attended to staff pets? The fact that the staff forced the entire Tuluki army to go out and get wiped by this force and got little to no shit for it, is beyond me.
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Also, Shabago banning himself for a week is possibly the funniest shit I've read this month. No way they aren't trolling the entire community by pulling that shit.
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,335
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 15, 2023 6:10:03 GMT -5
I mentioned this in the "City Play" thread here, but the GDB's "feedback on playing and logins" thread where they collected ideas while implementing the mul outpost, just led to the GDB thread "What would entice you to play more in the cities?" where they collected a bunch of ideas. The staff will implement some of those ideas, break something else, and ask for more ideas on how to fix that while players leave the game. And then you get a perpetual loop (until staff just get tired of asking players for advice, and start breaking their own solutions, and fixing the breakage with more solutions that break more things, etc., forever).
So... staff communication with the playerbase is at a point where the staff are basically asking the players for new ways to break the game, then getting frustrated at players when they have Strong Opinions™️about the thing they unwisely invested years/decades of their life into. For players reading this, it really is time to read about the gambler's fallacy and cut your losses.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 15, 2023 8:56:51 GMT -5
I view this as a sort of evolution of staff trying to take advice on what to do but implementing it wrong. Maybe maliciously? But that might be a bit of a stretch.
They've spent years basically ignoring players despite the constant suggestion (That normal people would have) of 'maybe listen to what the players want?*'
There's no real issue with this, well there is an issue sometimes, but they are also taking the suggestions in the wrong way by not properly communicating ideas back and forth. They are basically looking at the suggestion box at a shitty workplace but the best ideas don't come from those boxes. Then they implement them, something else breaks, and they can smugly go 'Look what happens when you listen to the players'
*Much like in TTRPGs, a lot of players don't actually know what they want. I don't mean this in some 'Staff/Dms are the greatest force in the world and know everything' way, but I see a lot of people on both sides of the screen go 'I want to do X' and then they: Suck at running X, or don't actually want an X, they just think they do because they've associated this idea in their head with something.
Like hexcrawls. People associate the classic hex crawl with westmarch, which most people now just assume is 'quest board gaming'. Then they join a proper hex crawl and fucking hate it because it's 90% roaming around trying to find shit and getting lost.
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,335
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 15, 2023 10:07:26 GMT -5
There is clear evidence of staff soliciting advice maliciously, with the whole "what should we close next" discussion just being a troll by the producers to show the players that their suggestions are not valued. It wouldn't be that big of a stretch to assume that they're implementing advice incorrectly on purpose, considering their view of player suggestions as often wrong or misguided. Letting the monkey's paw curl as one final fuck-you.
But I think staff, on average, are too unintelligent for that kind of conniving behavior. I think they're perfectly content with picking out players they don't like and bullying them, while adding things to the game that they and their friends want in.
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eugene
Clueless newb
Posts: 82
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Post by eugene on Feb 15, 2023 12:15:06 GMT -5
Much like in TTRPGs, a lot of players don't actually know what they want. I don't mean this in some 'Staff/Dms are the greatest force in the world and know everything' way, but I see a lot of people on both sides of the screen go 'I want to do X' and then they: Suck at running X, or don't actually want an X, they just think they do because they've associated this idea in their head with something. I have absolutely no dog in this fight and my entire post is a parachute comment, but this statement is so true that it makes me want to cry. I have run a lot of roleplay communities and, for staff, the biggest issue by far is the fickle nature of players. There are countless stories that I could recount, but the simple fact is that players sometimes suck at telling you what they want. They say they want X, then you give it to them, and say "this isn't X, this is Y." Or you give them X, and they say it was too much X; they want a certain kind of X. Or they say they don't know what they want, but they don't want A-Z, and you're expected to come up with something new after you've been creatively exhausted. The worst is when they ask for X, you give it to them, and they acknowledge that you gave it to them, but then they do nothing with it, stop playing for a year, and then come back wondering where X went.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 15, 2023 17:18:55 GMT -5
I have run a lot of roleplay communities and, for staff, the biggest issue by far is the fickle nature of players. There are countless stories that I could recount, but the simple fact is that players sometimes suck at telling you what they want. i agree with this and bolded it for emphasis because i think this is something easily glazed over. players (and people) in general typically know what they want but aren't great at articulating it. if a player says more of 'i really liked playing in salarr, i want more like that', they can be describing a million different things. they could like the freedom of a merchant house, the specific role they had, the dynamics of interacting with other players that only that offered, the specific crew they were on, etc etc. figuring out the specifics involves having communication and interaction, not just taking words at face value and throwing up your interpretation off of a vague statement.
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,335
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 24, 2023 10:55:07 GMT -5
It's pretty funny to see this GDB thread slowly die and fall down the page while the players eagerly talk about the combat system and the same old complaints about playing criminal PCs. Those systems mean jack shit when you have players leaving because they correctly realize the staff don't respect them.
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