I started reading the actual 2e Dark Sun setting guide and..
Sept 24, 2022 19:11:04 GMT -5
delerak likes this
Post by Azerbanjani on Sept 24, 2022 19:11:04 GMT -5
It's no secret I'm not a huge fan of the 2e ruleset. It does something very well, not sure what I'd call that something, but the something it does is uninteresting to me and makes such a headache that I feel half the time I'd rather just substitute another game in (Probably Shadow of the Demon Lord or something, or other things).
Some of the cultural writing is also kinda ass, or written funny, or has pieces missing that seem awkward or inclusions that don't serve a purpose. Otherwise, it's pretty decent writings on people/the races.
The regular setting lore, the landscape it paints, the political situation, the geography. It's all so fucking good.
The module in the set I bought for 2e? Kinda ass. The mechanics of 2e barely actually help the survival situation it's presenting, some scenarios are written in ways that present less 'survival barren wasteland' and more 'Stupid as fuck situation where I should assume I'm dealing with mentally handicapped idiots' and the latter isn't fun for a lot of people unless you get off on gotcha moments to the players. Still though, even though the example module is kinda ass it's pretty interesting and can be retooled by any DM with 3 braincells (Which most people would, hopefully).
But LORD the lore and setting writing. It's so good. The understandings, from the point of view of the author as it's meant to be a sort of 'written account', are given in ways that I think border on a more meta aspect (It is a damn setting guide afterall) but pushing that aside it's clear to see the vision of what the world is meant to be.
Reading this has made me hate Armageddon more, at least the setting.
There's a comment on these forums from like 2013 of someone saying Armageddon has pulled so far away from Dark Sun it should be considered it's own thing.
I honestly think not really.
Dark Sun's flavor comes from the desert wasteland, that the book will remind you ISN'T EMPTY (Unlike Armageddon's desert), and the crazy ass environment and creatures in it. The special races that live there, the bug people, how clerics worship the elements and not gods (4e did offer clerics of long dead gods which personally I'm fine with but only like...a once thing. Not 5 in a party), Templars are considered clerics but there's a sort of in lore debate about if they even compare to regular clerics. Druids. Psionics.
All this cool shit that inhabits the world.
Armageddon doesn't not have these things, it just does them poorly or waters them down (Which is ironic because water is supposed to be scarce and yet everything has so much of it). One can read the basic PHB guide for 2e to see that: Yes, Elves will ride. No, they won't want to.
Why did Armageddon feel the need to enforce that to the point of banning people for doing it at all, regardless of circumstance? Did it make them feel like they were having 'gud rp'? Elves in Dark Sun won't use pack animals for personal belongings but will use them for tribal reasons (Carrying large amounts of goods, for example).
Why didn't Armageddon go dick hard on that? I know the answer isn't 'Oh because uh this isn't Dark Sun'.
Dwarves having a focus all the time...is kinda how it works, but Armageddon puts way too much emphasis on always following the focus. Even though Dark Sun did, you COULD go against it (You got exp and roll penalties for doing so) but in Armageddon if my Focus is 'Poop in Templars face' and I don't do it some staffer is going to be shit talking me on the AOL chats.
I have no idea what the fuck they did to half elves.
Dark Sun: Half Elves don't really fit in with humans or elves, though usually wind up living with humans. When they do live with them, they never truly become family but still can get a measurable life out of it. They find beasts more friendly than others and enjoy fitting in when they can. Also, they like living with Dwarves and Thri-Keen/halflings as they don't give them special favors or think too poorly of them (Ignoring the possible issues of 'Halflings eat people/Thri-Keen like elf flesh [Maybe Half-elf flesh got too much human too it])
Armageddon: You have some undiagnosed mental disorder and if you don't have a melt down every now and then you're roleplaying wrong.
Humans are humans are humans so you can't really fuck up humans.
Half Giants weren't mentally retarded in Dark Sun they just had a -2 int and had a max of 15...which is well above average. You rolled 4d4+4 for your stats in Dark Sun so your Half Giant probably isn't that dumb. They also were curious, leaned towards kindness, and did the alignment swapping thing.
Barring humans, whatever the fuck they did to Thri-Keen, and the Halfling genocide, I think Elves are the least fucked up thing about Armageddon in keeping to the tone of Dark Sun. City elves weren't a thing (Elves DID live in the city or worked bazaars for their people but they weren't calling people neckers in the inner city that wanted to keep the knife ears down) and I swear to god even though Armageddon suggests it elves frequently do the 'Elves gotta stick together' shit when that's not really apart of their culture. Though maybe it's a naturally evolved part, seeing as humans seem to hate elves more than they do in Dark Sun in Arm.
I don't know. I think claiming it's some original work or even inspired is a bit disingenuous because compared to generic fantasy settings 'We have dragons and dungeons but it's pretty unique' other fantasy worlds don't really cling to their setting uniqueness. If I run some generic ass fantasy game in the Forgotten Realms and then run it for other players and change the name, no one notices.
If you do the same with Dark Sun, someone will be like 'Oh this is Dark Sun'.
Some of the cultural writing is also kinda ass, or written funny, or has pieces missing that seem awkward or inclusions that don't serve a purpose. Otherwise, it's pretty decent writings on people/the races.
The regular setting lore, the landscape it paints, the political situation, the geography. It's all so fucking good.
The module in the set I bought for 2e? Kinda ass. The mechanics of 2e barely actually help the survival situation it's presenting, some scenarios are written in ways that present less 'survival barren wasteland' and more 'Stupid as fuck situation where I should assume I'm dealing with mentally handicapped idiots' and the latter isn't fun for a lot of people unless you get off on gotcha moments to the players. Still though, even though the example module is kinda ass it's pretty interesting and can be retooled by any DM with 3 braincells (Which most people would, hopefully).
But LORD the lore and setting writing. It's so good. The understandings, from the point of view of the author as it's meant to be a sort of 'written account', are given in ways that I think border on a more meta aspect (It is a damn setting guide afterall) but pushing that aside it's clear to see the vision of what the world is meant to be.
Reading this has made me hate Armageddon more, at least the setting.
There's a comment on these forums from like 2013 of someone saying Armageddon has pulled so far away from Dark Sun it should be considered it's own thing.
I honestly think not really.
Dark Sun's flavor comes from the desert wasteland, that the book will remind you ISN'T EMPTY (Unlike Armageddon's desert), and the crazy ass environment and creatures in it. The special races that live there, the bug people, how clerics worship the elements and not gods (4e did offer clerics of long dead gods which personally I'm fine with but only like...a once thing. Not 5 in a party), Templars are considered clerics but there's a sort of in lore debate about if they even compare to regular clerics. Druids. Psionics.
All this cool shit that inhabits the world.
Armageddon doesn't not have these things, it just does them poorly or waters them down (Which is ironic because water is supposed to be scarce and yet everything has so much of it). One can read the basic PHB guide for 2e to see that: Yes, Elves will ride. No, they won't want to.
Why did Armageddon feel the need to enforce that to the point of banning people for doing it at all, regardless of circumstance? Did it make them feel like they were having 'gud rp'? Elves in Dark Sun won't use pack animals for personal belongings but will use them for tribal reasons (Carrying large amounts of goods, for example).
Why didn't Armageddon go dick hard on that? I know the answer isn't 'Oh because uh this isn't Dark Sun'.
Dwarves having a focus all the time...is kinda how it works, but Armageddon puts way too much emphasis on always following the focus. Even though Dark Sun did, you COULD go against it (You got exp and roll penalties for doing so) but in Armageddon if my Focus is 'Poop in Templars face' and I don't do it some staffer is going to be shit talking me on the AOL chats.
I have no idea what the fuck they did to half elves.
Dark Sun: Half Elves don't really fit in with humans or elves, though usually wind up living with humans. When they do live with them, they never truly become family but still can get a measurable life out of it. They find beasts more friendly than others and enjoy fitting in when they can. Also, they like living with Dwarves and Thri-Keen/halflings as they don't give them special favors or think too poorly of them (Ignoring the possible issues of 'Halflings eat people/Thri-Keen like elf flesh [Maybe Half-elf flesh got too much human too it])
Armageddon: You have some undiagnosed mental disorder and if you don't have a melt down every now and then you're roleplaying wrong.
Humans are humans are humans so you can't really fuck up humans.
Half Giants weren't mentally retarded in Dark Sun they just had a -2 int and had a max of 15...which is well above average. You rolled 4d4+4 for your stats in Dark Sun so your Half Giant probably isn't that dumb. They also were curious, leaned towards kindness, and did the alignment swapping thing.
Barring humans, whatever the fuck they did to Thri-Keen, and the Halfling genocide, I think Elves are the least fucked up thing about Armageddon in keeping to the tone of Dark Sun. City elves weren't a thing (Elves DID live in the city or worked bazaars for their people but they weren't calling people neckers in the inner city that wanted to keep the knife ears down) and I swear to god even though Armageddon suggests it elves frequently do the 'Elves gotta stick together' shit when that's not really apart of their culture. Though maybe it's a naturally evolved part, seeing as humans seem to hate elves more than they do in Dark Sun in Arm.
I don't know. I think claiming it's some original work or even inspired is a bit disingenuous because compared to generic fantasy settings 'We have dragons and dungeons but it's pretty unique' other fantasy worlds don't really cling to their setting uniqueness. If I run some generic ass fantasy game in the Forgotten Realms and then run it for other players and change the name, no one notices.
If you do the same with Dark Sun, someone will be like 'Oh this is Dark Sun'.