vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Apr 30, 2020 19:05:22 GMT -5
Devils advocate: In the time it takes, to make a post on the gdb, acting all entitled, about what NEEDS to be done RIGHT NOW, because MY GOD, my IMMERSIONS, how DARE YOU STAFF, every single person in that thread, could have used the BUG command. That is EXACTLY the purpose, of the bug command. To report non-critical bugs. The problem with mounts, sounds like a non-critical bug. I would hazard to guess, someone tried to add something interesting and got some parameters wrong, and it can be fixed in about thirty seconds.
If someone used the BUG command. If even ONE person, used the BUG command.
Like, I get the staff talking heads are getting progressively worse, but they aren't entirely wrong, either. Someone did make an effort to add something to the game, trivial as it is, and people did turn into fucking entitled assholes and ramp complaints to eleven, but completely failed to even report it in the proper fashion. I find the GDB advocates for "more stuff please", but when someone does add something, the response tends to be "WTF STAFF! NO! BAD STAFF!", and the thread devolves into people complaining about how lame pvp is, in their social sexy time sandbox.
I've had people just mention to me, casually in the hall, where I work, "Hey, the bathrooms got X problem, maybe someone should let maintenance know?" and keep on walking. And they'll sit in the cafe complaining about it, telling each other, "someone needs to call maintenance, oh me, oh my", and nobody will actually go and do it. They'll spend their time bitching about it, but won't pick up the phone and ring the proper people who can fix it. They're too lazy or stupid or both, to quickly and easily solve their own problems. They just complain louder and louder, until someone else does it for them.
And when someone does, they'll complain about how long it takes.
So, I mean, yeah, as per usual, staff are being snide assholes about it, but in this particular case, those people pretty much deserve it.
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gdbjohn
staff puppet account
Posts: 25
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Post by gdbjohn on Apr 30, 2020 19:26:25 GMT -5
Fuck off people deserve to be treated like shit. It's a pretty sad indictment if the best defense anyone can mount is "it's okay for staff to act like asshole, the players deserve it". To report non-critical bugs. The problem with mounts, sounds like a non-critical bug. I would hazard to guess, someone tried to add something interesting and got some parameters wrong, and it can be fixed in about thirty seconds. If someone used the BUG command. If even ONE person, used the BUG command. Rather then bitch and moan about people not using the BUG command, why not analyze why people might be inclined to not use the bug command? Problems with the bug command are: * It is limited in detail you can put in. * There is zero transparency in what happens once the bug report is submitted. * Any staffer can go "I worked hard on that. That's working as intended" and then close the bug report. * Maybe players don't agree that something is a bug. Maybe they like the echo spam. God forbid anyone gather anyone else's opinions. I will admit I pretty much avoid reading most GDB posts. Staff have zero consistency in what ideas they do and don't implement. It's gotten to a point where I pretty much write off any discussion on the GDB on a meaningful issue having zero actual impact. At best staff decide on a course of action and then try to find a GDB thread that support their planned action so they can say "as requested by you". Now obviously I don't think all staff are like that. But in this case: Brokkr acted like an asshole on the GDB. Is anyone surprised? |
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gristle
staff puppet account
Posts: 26
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Post by gristle on Apr 30, 2020 20:27:02 GMT -5
None of the words exchanged on that thread were beyond the pale, staff or player. Nothing to get twisted into a knot about.
The lack of transparency in the request tool is a major problem, though. It's impossible to tell if any kind of request is even getting looked at, and they're formulating an answer, or if it's just sitting in there and collecting dust.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Apr 30, 2020 20:52:42 GMT -5
thats a hard agree if ur gonna bitch and moan abt something without even trying to get it fixed then uve earned urself the right to keep bitching and moaning abt it
but everyone else is right too abt the way it looks like it was handled
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098 
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Post by punished ppurg on May 1, 2020 2:33:30 GMT -5
Devils advocate: In the time it takes, to make a post on the gdb, acting all entitled, about what NEEDS to be done RIGHT NOW, because MY GOD, my IMMERSIONS, how DARE YOU STAFF, every single person in that thread, could have used the BUG command. That is EXACTLY the purpose, of the bug command. To report non-critical bugs. The problem with mounts, sounds like a non-critical bug. I would hazard to guess, someone tried to add something interesting and got some parameters wrong, and it can be fixed in about thirty seconds. If someone used the BUG command. If even ONE person, used the BUG command. Like, I get the staff talking heads are getting progressively worse, but they aren't entirely wrong, either. Someone did make an effort to add something to the game, trivial as it is, and people did turn into fucking entitled assholes and ramp complaints to eleven, but completely failed to even report it in the proper fashion. I find the GDB advocates for "more stuff please", but when someone does add something, the response tends to be "WTF STAFF! NO! BAD STAFF!", and the thread devolves into people complaining about how lame pvp is, in their social sexy time sandbox. I've had people just mention to me, casually in the hall, where I work, "Hey, the bathrooms got X problem, maybe someone should let maintenance know?" and keep on walking. And they'll sit in the cafe complaining about it, telling each other, "someone needs to call maintenance, oh me, oh my", and nobody will actually go and do it. They'll spend their time bitching about it, but won't pick up the phone and ring the proper people who can fix it. They're too lazy or stupid or both, to quickly and easily solve their own problems. They just complain louder and louder, until someone else does it for them. And when someone does, they'll complain about how long it takes. So, I mean, yeah, as per usual, staff are being snide assholes about it, but in this particular case, those people pretty much deserve it. Counterpoint: bug command is not ideal for reporting bugs. Who would have thought? Using the bug command puts an issue on the bug stack that progs will only look at once. There's no room for further discussion or communication. Thousands of bugs have fallen into obscurity using the bug command. You see this in every single old MUD: their antiquated internal bug/typo commands are not close to ideal for actually having workflow. The only good system I've seen is in HellMOO where there is an internal BBS for such things.
You put something on the forum, you get everyone's eyes on it. There's discussion and communication. Helpful dev gets to pop in, "Oh I see what you mean chief, don't worry, I'll have her fixed next reboot!" and come back next reboot "Hey folks, I pushed that fix, let me know if things act up again!" Everyone is happy. Players see that staff care. Staff get to show they can fix something. This is the perfect world.
There is no helpful dev on the Armageddon staff team. There are only spiteful children and Grognards.
Nobody deserves to have their bug report responded to in a snide asshole fashion. The guy did exactly what he needed to in order to get a solution; and he did it reasonably. There is no need to turn hyperbolic lasers on and make it out, "Oh, by posting X on the forums this guy murdered the creative drive of every single staffer!" It's ludicrous.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on May 1, 2020 4:30:16 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to have their bug report responded to in a snide asshole fashion. The guy did exactly what he needed to in order to get a solution; and he did it reasonably. There is no need to turn hyperbolic lasers on and make it out, "Oh, by posting X on the forums this guy murdered the creative drive of every single staffer!" It's ludicrous. Are you really, really, going to post, that the thread was totally reasonable and none of them at all, should have at least made SOME effort, to report it in a non-aggro way? Because the thread is still there, you can go read it start to finish. It's wall to wall assholes, for sure, but it starts with players responding absurdly, to a completely minor bug, without actually making ANY efforts to see it resolved with the tools available. It was right to the forum, right to bitching. It isn't like when there is some discussion going on, and loonsh shows up to talk about how he wants to ride bobops dick, or Brokkr blames cellphones for nobody giving a shit anymore, or the usual staff says something ridiculous, players get angry, staff give sassy non-apology. Players just got aggro, over something benign and stupid, and staff sassed back. When players decide to phrase their "bug report", in such an aggressive, hyperbolish, assholishly ineffective way? They totally deserve, to get it served back to them.
If we're willing to serve it up when staff deserve it, the reverse should also be true. That's how I see it. Fuck off people deserve to be treated like shit. It's a pretty sad indictment if the best defense anyone can mount is "it's okay for staff to act like asshole, the players deserve it".
You're such a disingenuous piece of shit, John.
How, do you not break your back, contorting yourself between insinuating staff aren't even people, to acting like some righteous man? You should take that shit on the road.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on May 1, 2020 13:41:25 GMT -5
What a false dichotomy. Forums have always been a valid metric of reporting bugs, for every game and every community: especially subjective "bugs" like the high frequency of echoes. I would expect hyperbole in such a report; as the invocation of pathos through the public medium is probably the only way to get these lazy producers to do anything. Did you know that building efforts have been plagued by lack of save rooms for the past five years? You can just set another zone to be a save room and have 1000 more save rooms. The Armageddon staff don't do so because they're incompetent. If anything, more bugs need to be put on the forum.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on May 1, 2020 16:34:15 GMT -5
According to the staff, the forums are not where they go looking for bug reports.
The initial staff posts, even directed people to those means of submission, as well as the relevant information to be included. Instead of following the directions, they decided to double down on bitching in the thread and instigate a slap fight with staff. If even one of those people, had followed the fucking directions, it no doubt would have been handled without dramas. It isn't up to you, or I, or wannabe man-of-the-people John, or whoever, to decide how things should be handled. Not our call. Simple, as that.
It's their game. They decide. If the bug was so awful, that players couldn't stand it, and staff are LITERALLY telling them how to best get the problem solved, but NOBODY does it? That speaks volumes more, of those players, than it does about staff. When attitudes on both sides, are equally shitty, it comes down to merit. Staff gave simple, easy to follow directions despite a hyperbolic OP. Players didn't bother to follow them. They wanted to embrace their inner 80s rebel, gripe about staff attitude, and do it their own way, instead. I guess, they declared their priorities. Staff showed they don't give a fuck, and locked the thread.
Like, if you're trying to get IT handle a network issue, you're told contact a different extension and to have X credentials ready, so that the right people can get on it, you don't tell them no, they'll solve your problem your way, because this is the number you wanted to call and you shouldn't have to jump through their hoops. You contact the fucking extension, because if you don't, IT will ignore you until you're ready to follow instructions. It is, after all, YOUR problem, and YOU would be the one accountable, for not following their directions, if your work suffers or fails to materialize because of it.
They know it, too. Which is why most IT people, are total pricks, about every little thing.
By all means, take the fight to staff on this one, and get them to implement a bug report subforum. Or anyone reading this. I don't disagree, that it'd be a lot more useful, than the request tool, at least. Fight the system, right the system. Be the man, who makes it happen, because they sure won't listen to me. Let me know, how that works out.
Anyway, players were total fucking idiots, from start to finish, and got what they deserved, in that particular thread. Agree to disagree, or flex your impressive vocabulary to little effect, at my name on the screen. It is, what it is.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on May 1, 2020 16:37:38 GMT -5
You're defending a broken system here, so there's no point wasting any more time engaging you with this strawman you've built.
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Post by jcarter on May 1, 2020 16:43:40 GMT -5
According to the staff, the forums are not where they go looking for bug reports. The initial staff posts, even directed people to those means of submission, as well as the relevant information to be included. Instead of following the directions, they decided to double down on bitching in the thread and instigate a slap fight with staff. If even one of those people, had followed the fucking directions, it no doubt would have been handled without dramas. It isn't up to you, or I, or wannabe man-of-the-people John, or whoever, to decide how things should be handled. Not our call. Simple, as that. It's their game. They decide. If the bug was so awful, that players couldn't stand it, and staff are LITERALLY telling them how to best get the problem solved, but NOBODY does it? That speaks volumes more, of those players, than it does about staff. When attitudes on both sides, are equally shitty, it comes down to merit. Staff gave simple, easy to follow directions despite a hyperbolic OP. Players didn't bother to follow them. They wanted to embrace their inner 80s rebel, gripe about staff attitude, and do it their own way, instead. I guess, they declared their priorities. Staff showed they don't give a fuck, and locked the thread. Like, if you're trying to get IT handle a network issue, you're told contact a different extension and to have X credentials ready, so that the right people can get on it, you don't tell them no, they'll solve your problem your way, because this is the number you wanted to call and you shouldn't have to jump through their hoops. You contact the fucking extension, because if you don't, IT will ignore you until you're ready to follow instructions. It is, after all, YOUR problem, and YOU would be the one accountable, for not following their directions, if your work suffers or fails to materialize because of it. They know it, too. Which is why most IT people, are total pricks, about every little thing. By all means, take the fight to staff on this one, and get them to implement a bug report subforum. Or anyone reading this. I don't disagree, that it'd be a lot more useful, than the request tool, at least. Fight the system, right the system. Be the man, who makes it happen, because they sure won't listen to me. Let me know, how that works out. Anyway, players were total fucking idiots, from start to finish, and got what they deserved, in that particular thread. Agree to disagree, or flex your impressive vocabulary to little effect, at my name on the screen. It is, what it is. wtf is it with you people needing to put everything into tortured metaphors that have no resemblance to the situation? it's a straightforward issue. players complained that new emotes from mounts that no one asked for were spamming shit up and made a thread to discuss it and ask that it got lowered. players didn't make a bug report because they didn't believe it was a bug. imm response suggest that it wasn't a bug. somewhere in the middle of it staff got upset that someone had the audacity to not gush love over fluffy emotes that ate up their entire screen. no one cares how this is like that time your mom mentioned cutting the grass would be nice but didn't outright ask you or this is why IT people are unsociable autists. |
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gdbjohn
staff puppet account
Posts: 25
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Post by gdbjohn on May 1, 2020 17:01:46 GMT -5
How, do you not break your back, contorting yourself between insinuating staff aren't even people, to acting like some righteous man? You should take that shit on the road. Stop being such a pest. I didnt insinuate that staff arent people. You may have wished I did so you can go off the rails at me. But it doesn't make it true. P.S. how many players locked the thread, reopened it to get the final post, lock it again and then delete all evidence that demonstrates kt was locked before they posted? |
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jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 156
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Post by jenki on May 2, 2020 3:57:38 GMT -5
Hey man! Why is everyone so critical of the staff's performance? When I played, over a year ago, I made frequent use of the bug/typo/idea commands. They are still crediting my account (more than a year later) for several things I've submitted with the typo/bug/idea command. So what should we take away from this is? IMO, issues posted on the GDB are generally addressed much sooner than when using the bug/typo/idea commands and/or request tool. Why is that? Only staff really knows, but I will speculate privately.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on May 2, 2020 9:52:08 GMT -5
It is highly probable that the reason why those "credits" in the bug/typo queue are completing is due to 1 of the 14 (!) staffers, most likely a storyteller, going through and kicking off requests older than X amount of time to trim the fat. We've seen patterns like that in the data.
No, submit your complaints into the void so that we can promptly ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Post by triskelion on May 2, 2020 16:42:17 GMT -5
The reason I don't hang out as much in public is because if you idle in a tavern waiting for dudes to show up there is a non-trivial chance some twinked out thief will empty your pockets without ever interacting with you. Thief code used to be more opaque but I'm pretty sure everyone understands how to make a godlike non-catchable thief these days.
Most of these RP games now have some kind of 'where' command to show what bars and public locales are currently populated, Arm would benefit massively from such a thing.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on May 3, 2020 0:50:30 GMT -5
Most of these RP games now have some kind of 'where' command to show what bars and public locales are currently populated, Arm would benefit massively from such a thing. cool in theory but its related to why they took out the who option from login menu afterwards years and years back even tho u can just login and do the same but regardless for where they want there to be enough uncertainty to get ppl to connect and stay on just long enough for other ppl to move around and bump into ppl doing the same thing and stay logged instead of enabling all those same players to commit succesive lemming logins rinse wash repeat also theyd basicly have to masively reduce their above board expectations for metaplay to justify openly letting players know what places were currently populated with players whenever they want |
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