joe
Clueless newb
Posts: 54 
|
Post by joe on Jan 13, 2020 10:51:38 GMT -5
Do IC secrets benefit the game in your eyes?
This is more complex as there is the IC of what is happening right now (I'd love to be able to read the rumor boards without logging in, to enjoy the overall game story, and maybe to see where I want to play my next character), who killed who, and how/why you died to the surprise attack to wrap up a story.
OOC Don't eat raw gortok meat. That'll give you terradin and kill you. Oh. Don't go to sleep after being inflicted with bloodburn, you can't wake up on your own. oops. Don't eat shit or organs that are full of raw shit...oh...well...I guess you shoulda figured that was a bad idea. ETC!
Gameworld...there are some creatures and mobs in the gameworld not listed on the website. Is it valuable to crawl down that hole and use LOOK CREATURE so you can appreciate it's existence? Do the ruins of steinall actually exists or is it a virtual place? What -actually- happened to halflings, mantis? I can't think of a single character of mine that would know anything directly about halflings, but I'd like to know, etc.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Jan 13, 2020 10:59:06 GMT -5
If knowing it or not knowing it doesn't affect the day to day play than who cares? Like when that staff wiki thing dumped with a bunch of lore that had no impact on the game. Knowing it or not knowing it affected nothing except maybe they had to rename a few NPCs that still existed on grid on the off chance they got animated. The short stories has Muk Utep info on it that could or could not be true but it's there because it doesn't affect anything.
I think discovery is beneficial. Some people like to know so they look for maps or come here. Some people like to discover it on their own so they avoid spoilers. I don't think the official website should have that info on a page but the official forums could have it like an MMO!
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
|
Post by mehtastic on Jan 13, 2020 11:19:02 GMT -5
Natural discovery of actual secrets that have a relevant impact on play is beneficial to the narrative of any roleplaying game, from Arm to MUSHes to tabletop RPGs and even single-player RPGs. Games don't necessarily need to endorse a means of bypassing that natural discovery process, and arguably shouldn't.
They also shouldn't try to hamper the play of those who want to bypass those discoveries - if you want to be spoiled, and someone's willing to spoil you, then you get your spoiler and that should be the end of it. I personally like to go into new games blind though, so I can't really relate to this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 11:31:30 GMT -5
I personally think there needs to be an organic way to introduce (or re introduce if it was lost to deaths) lore into the game world. There is some of it written in books, but as always coveted
Regarding the code, my opinion is that it depends on whether, or not it'll ruin your character and fail to ruin someone else who is oocly aware of it
For example.
Send shadow will permanently mark you. Cast it once and if anyone with detect magick ever sees you, they will know you are a sorcerer/drovian instantly.
This should be blatantly illuminated in the helpfile.
But things like what comps are what sphere and horn. What NPC is actually a spy of what faction. Secret doors and hunting grounds of rare creatures. That should be kept secret and people who already know should go through at least some kind of played out effort to learn them once more, or have the background that would know such.
|
|
|
|
Post by Azerbanjani on Jan 13, 2020 20:25:51 GMT -5
One of the most jarring things to me is there is basically absolutely no way to learn any lore of the game and that the lore of the game is constantly changing and developing... behind the lines.
Also staff will blatantly lie to you about certain things, or perhaps they literally don't know.
I've seen staff reply to a request saying something akin to "There are no other reaches other than Un or Nil' and it doesn't take a fucking genius with the code dump to know that is and was blatantly fucking wrong.
Perhaps it isnt wrong because you actually played in a time period where fuckers had Kizn and you've seen it personally.
Perhaps it isn't wrong because, like me, you got to read a book IG that strictly talks about the reach and its power.
Yet staff act like it never existed. Has it been literally written out of the game?
For that fucking matter has Tuluk? Elkrosians? I know for magickers they 'exist IC' (Which sounds like an excuse for staff to only have access to them or some shit).
Even having a character IC know shit off the only source of real lore we have, the chronologically page, is fucking suspect. Does my character know a 'fake Dragon' existed other than Tek? Is that blatant heresy to mention? Idfk our 'extensive lore files' doesn't ever cross reference our dragon king and the knowledge of /the other massive dragon that almost ended the world/
Even if not knowing the lore doesn't effect your character it completely ruins a game style based around bards/knowledge/scholarly work. So if you make a Templar that is based around the noble house of writing things down, you're fucked. Now your lore comes from a request tool that takes 4 weeks to get a response on for that response to be 'no'. There is no in game means of obtaining lore so you become heavily reliant on staff or 'strategically lying OOC to have IC information'. Example: You want to have a story, as your Bard, of a great Triumph a tribe you know might have faced.
Absolutely fucking no one knows anything about them, the Tribe could be played IC and they could know jack shit, so you come up with one yourself.
Congrats you basically just lied unless you heavily relied on oral stories from that tribe but seeing how little shit people know you probably made 90% of it up. For a charlatan who cares but staff love to randomly check up on you and have random aniamted npcs go 'hmmm thats wrong my entire clan is declaring war on you now'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 13:34:54 GMT -5
I'll confess, the statement that no other reaches exist confuses me. It's potentially possible that the staffer did not about them, but they would literally be in their skill sheets. Was this response IG via an NPC, or in a request tool? Could you have misunderstood? Maybe they ment that for your character without some outside source of information, even the concept of new reaches would not exist.
Meaning a plot of a mage persuing to learn a new reach, without ever hearing ICly that other reaches exist, would not be appropriate?
Something like that. I dont know. That thing confuses me, Azerbanjani.
|
|
|
|
Post by Azerbanjani on Jan 14, 2020 15:38:56 GMT -5
I'll confess, the statement that no other reaches exist confuses me. It's potentially possible that the staffer did not about them, but they would literally be in their skill sheets. Was this response IG via an NPC, or in a request tool? Could you have misunderstood? Maybe they ment that for your character without some outside source of information, even the concept of new reaches would not exist. Meaning a plot of a mage persuing to learn a new reach, without ever hearing ICly that other reaches exist, would not be appropriate? Something like that. I dont know. That thing confuses me, Azerbanjani. I think this was a screenshot of a conversation I saw and on the request tool, but maybe someone else here was the person who had this happen. It was basically the phrase 'other reaches don't exist' not something like 'oh they might exist but you have to find out IC' like staff is normally accustomed to cock teasing, something like a blanket 'they aren't a thing'. It's either the staffer didn't know about them or the staff consensus is to just ignore and forget they existed. Hell I imagine trying to spec app a mage with a special reach would get the response of either "That doesn't exist anymore" or "That doesn't exist and never has" You know, kinda like how elkrosians are getting shafted. |
|
|
|
Post by shakes on Jan 14, 2020 19:09:35 GMT -5
One of the most jarring things to me is there is basically absolutely no way to learn any lore of the game and that the lore of the game is constantly changing and developing... behind the lines. I like to make up my own lore. For example, a character of mine had this whole concept of "The Deep" in the sewers where mutants live ... fleshed it out ... talked about it. Now you see a lot of mutant characters talking about it. Though entirely non-existent, it's become some unacknowledged lore that an increasing number of people know about and discuss. I have always wanted to see and no more about the Madrek and drag them kicking and screaming into the light but I can't ever get any traction on that. I submitted a special app once, put a lot of thought and detail into it, only to receive a curt "Madrek are not open to players." response. There's a lot of interesting lore that's player driven and outside the hands of staff, but there's also a lot of lore they just don't put any highlight on which would really flesh out the game world. |
|
|
|
Post by Azerbanjani on Jan 14, 2020 19:42:25 GMT -5
One of the most jarring things to me is there is basically absolutely no way to learn any lore of the game and that the lore of the game is constantly changing and developing... behind the lines. I like to make up my own lore. For example, a character of mine had this whole concept of "The Deep" in the sewers where mutants live ... fleshed it out ... talked about it. Now you see a lot of mutant characters talking about it. Though entirely non-existent, it's become some unacknowledged lore that an increasing number of people know about and discuss. I have always wanted to see and no more about the Madrek and drag them kicking and screaming into the light but I can't ever get any traction on that. I submitted a special app once, put a lot of thought and detail into it, only to receive a curt "Madrek are not open to players." response. There's a lot of interesting lore that's player driven and outside the hands of staff, but there's also a lot of lore they just don't put any highlight on which would really flesh out the game world. I know and agree with you, I make shit up myself sometimes, but that seems to be the issue. Players have no authority what so ever to make lore up yet are basically required to. |
|
|
|
Post by shakes on Jan 14, 2020 20:01:34 GMT -5
I guess that's my point.
Fuck the authority. Say what you want to say, claim what you want to claim. Other players will respond in whatever way they see fit.
I once made up some crazy-ass Lovecraftian shit regarding one character and people just rolled with it. Staff support? Nah. Staff approval? Nah. It was all just backstory being told to other characters, so they had the choice to believe or disbelieve.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 20:09:07 GMT -5
I guess that's my point. Fuck the authority. Say what you want to say, claim what you want to claim. Other players will respond in whatever way they see fit. I once made up some crazy-ass Lovecraftian shit regarding one character and people just rolled with it. Staff support? Nah. Staff approval? Nah. It was all just backstory being told to other characters, so they had the choice to believe or disbelieve. I actually think that's the best way to go. If enough people go through with it, it might end up becoming canon. |
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Jan 15, 2020 21:53:43 GMT -5
Who benefits from IC/OOC secrets 90% of the time?
Staff alts, and the friends of staff alts.
So while easter eggs and such are nice in theory (who doesn't like secrets?) the reality is that, such games create a two-caste system.
Those schmucks who are kept in the dark, and then accused of cheating if they ever do stumble onto a secret, and those who have it handed to them on a silver platter.
Generally, I'm pro any system and any rule that lessens the advantage that staff alts have over the masses, regardless of any other consideration.
|
|
gdbjohn
staff puppet account
Posts: 25
|
Post by gdbjohn on Jan 16, 2020 0:36:17 GMT -5
Different players play games for different reasons. This has a pretty good, and highly relevant, outline: theangrygm.com/session-zero-part-preface/Those of us who want IC secrets love discovery and play for that. But that is only one reason to play. Lots of people play for different reasons. In an Age where people create wikis and walkthroughs for video games the first day they're published, many people dont care about discovery. Unfortunately in a multiplayer game we need some sort of baseline. I think a lax 6 month to 1 year rule is a good compromise. Ultimately us longer players know a lot of stuff. If we're good little role players we dont abuse that. But whether you've played since 2002 or started 1 month ago has no bearing on how trustworthy you are. So I think a lot of secrets, especially around mechanics, should be officially disclosed in appropriate areas. |
|
