muddy
Clueless newb
Posts: 61
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Post by muddy on Sept 3, 2019 20:36:39 GMT -5
If you want to call me telling delerak how much of a pussy motherfucker mouthbreathing twat he is "cultlike", then I got some news for you You all are so funny, Delerak is the O.G. Nerd pissed for being chosen last for dodge ball by other Nerds. He has posted many valid complaints about staff from long before most of us played. Dating back to trans-staff peeing on people at Dragon-con. Without him there would be no anti-Armageddon. Most his complaints over the years seemed more to do with being cross threaded with staff who were way to heavy handed and open about it, they really didn't give an F. We are now talking about 20 years later complaints where many just don't own up. When I first "quit" Nyr wasn't top staff yet, was a total douche to (me) an outsider with no clue what he was doing yet. No positive direction given but right in his assessment of me grinding and twinking. There was and is no system for Newbs who aren't "In" with the cool nerds. Armageddon is a great game, don't think you'll change the world or be more important than vnpcs because you have an idea. There is no better angeles of most players who would sit and pickpocket/picklock grind day in and day out. The glass ceiling is fully based upon the fact most players are twink assholes who are all about #1.
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Post by jcarter on Sept 3, 2019 20:38:52 GMT -5
What
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Post by shakes on Sept 3, 2019 20:39:07 GMT -5
I decided to give Arm another try because a bunch of people PM'd me HERE, on the SB, to tell me they were sympathetic to the way I was treated but how much they'd really enjoyed playing alongside, with, or even against my characters.
It's sad that I HAVE to go back to it with reduced expectations, but that's the reality of it. Staff didn't give me an honest effort before, and they're CERTAINLY not going to do it now that I've outed myself on the SB and broke their "no-OOC" taboo which is selectively enforced only when they decide to drag it out and use it against someone they've already decided they need a reason to punish.
Sadly, however, I'm not having much fun right now. I log in, twink my skills a few minutes, log back out. Maybe do that 2-3 times per day and then go find something else to do. Whereas before I was really devoting a lot of time and energy into making a character and having things happen around me. Where is the loss really being suffered? It's the game that's lost me, not the other way around. I can still play, I'm just not quite as willing to put the effort into it again that I was previously.
I lack the motivation to give it 100%. And nobody, either from the playerbase or staff, has come up with a reason for me to feel otherwise about it.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 3, 2019 20:39:22 GMT -5
If you want to call me telling delerak how much of a pussy motherfucker mouthbreathing twat he is "cultlike", then I got some news for you You all are so funny, Delerak is the O.G. Nerd pissed for being chosen last for dodge ball by other Nerds. He has posted many valid complaints about staff from long before most of us played. Dating back to trans-staff peeing on people at Dragon-con. Without him there would be no anti-Armageddon. Most his complaints over the years seemed more to do with being cross threaded with staff who were way to heavy handed and open about it, they really didn't give an F. We are now talking about 20 years later complaints where many just don't own up. When I first "quit" Nyr wasn't top staff yet, was a total douche to (me) an outsider with no clue what he was doing yet. No positive direction given but right in his assessment of me grinding and twinking. There was and is no system for Newbs who aren't "In" with the cool nerds. Armageddon is a great game, don't think you'll change the world or be more important than vnpcs because you have an idea. There is no better angeles of most players who would sit and pickpocket/picklock grind day in and day out. The glass ceiling is fully based upon the fact most players are twink assholes who are all about #1. This looks suspiciously like a copypasta.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 3, 2019 20:41:37 GMT -5
I decided to give Arm another try because a bunch of people PM'd me HERE, on the SB, to tell me they were sympathetic to the way I was treated but how much they'd really enjoyed playing alongside, with, or even against my characters. It's sad that I HAVE to go back to it with reduced expectations, but that's the reality of it. Staff didn't give me an honest effort before, and they're CERTAINLY not going to do it now that I've outed myself on the SB and broke their "no-OOC" taboo which is selectively enforced only when they decide to drag it out and use it against someone they've already decided they need a reason to punish. Sadly, however, I'm not having much fun right now. I log in, twink my skills a few minutes, log back out. Maybe do that 2-3 times per day and then go find something else to do. Whereas before I was really devoting a lot of time and energy into making a character and having things happen around me. Where is the loss really being suffered? It's the game that's lost me, not the other way around. I can still play, I'm just not quite as willing to put the effort into it again that I was previously. I lack the motivation to give it 100%. And nobody, either from the playerbase or staff, has come up with a reason for me to feel otherwise about it. Yeah, that's always the struggle with leaving a bad game with good people behind: the good people want you back. I sympathize with that, 100%. I dealt with it personally, and I've had friends who dealt with it. The most effective way to deal with it in my experience is to leave and keep in touch, or bring your friends from Armageddon to a new game, but it's not always possible.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 3, 2019 20:43:06 GMT -5
Delerak coming to terms with his complaints from 20 years ago doesn't give him the onus to come to our current complaints and say, "I've gotten over my own bullshit. Lol stop caring bro" Also the concept that "without him there would be no anti-Armageddon" is patently retarded.
shakes Unless the people who wanted to bring you back are actively trying to engage with you, then why bother? Why come back for people that you're not playing with?
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Post by shakes on Sept 3, 2019 20:48:59 GMT -5
shakes Unless the people who wanted to bring you back are actively trying to engage with you, then why bother? Why come back for people that you're not playing with? I got no answer for that. We enjoyed talking about the good ol' days but couldn't seem to come together on an idea for the 'new good old days'. I think it's hard to force good stories. The relationships that formed and the events that happened before happened very honestly and organically. You can't really lay that out and make it happen. But I'm around, I'm in the game sometimes. I might get the wild hair to focus on it some more in the future. The door's open for that. But it's not happening now.
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Post by explayer on Sept 3, 2019 20:57:57 GMT -5
Seven people gave apparently heartfelt goodbyes to Eyeball; the remaining four were neutral or flippant ("see you in a year" to someone resolved to walk away from the game forever). It is genuinely embarrassing to see someone criticize Armageddon for years simply reduce their expectations severely and crawl back to it instead of finding a better game. It is sad to see people go back to the game after resolving to stay away and lead a more productive life. I don't fault punished ppurg for his views but he's as welcome to them as delerak and shakes are welcome to play Armageddon with severely reduced expectations. He's also free to kick people from his Discord server if they're being disruptive. Wait a moment, does someone think I (Eyeball on the GDB) have returned to Arm? Because I haven't. Even if I wanted to crawl back, there's not one character concept that comes to mind anymore. All of my concepts involved trying to accomplish something and I've had enough frustration.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Sept 3, 2019 20:59:34 GMT -5
Seven people gave apparently heartfelt goodbyes to Eyeball; the remaining four were neutral or flippant ("see you in a year" to someone resolved to walk away from the game forever). It is genuinely embarrassing to see someone criticize Armageddon for years simply reduce their expectations severely and crawl back to it instead of finding a better game. It is sad to see people go back to the game after resolving to stay away and lead a more productive life. I don't fault punished ppurg for his views but he's as welcome to them as delerak and shakes are welcome to play Armageddon with severely reduced expectations. He's also free to kick people from his Discord server if they're being disruptive. Wait a moment, does someone think I (Eyeball on the GDB) have returned to Arm? Because I haven't. Even if I wanted to crawl back, there's not one character concept that comes to mind anymore. All of my concepts involved trying to accomplish something and I've had enough frustration. no he just listed u for chrono sake
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muddy
Clueless newb
Posts: 61
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Post by muddy on Sept 3, 2019 22:09:40 GMT -5
No copypasta just a drunk ramble I had to edit for auto correct of twinking. Jcarter, I know the shadow board is yours I was meaning when the history is written, seemed like the original anti-hero was the D. Only talking shit not to delegitimize people's modern complaints but I think the big complaints have been delt with. There is a massive free flow of information now, they post skills and branching to where no one is walking in blind. There is no white-tembo running around killing players or Gypsy cluster-Fs absorbing 90% of staff time.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Sept 3, 2019 22:29:54 GMT -5
Returning to Arm doesn't mean the game is good. Sometimes I'll do the same with EverQuest. Return, play a little, remember why I don't play it again, and then quit. It's called nostalgia. When I play Arm, I inevitably start posting here because talking about what the game could be is more fun for me than actually playing it in its current state. Then I'll realize that's what I'm doing and quit again.
Oh no.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 4, 2019 6:46:01 GMT -5
Seven people gave apparently heartfelt goodbyes to Eyeball; the remaining four were neutral or flippant ("see you in a year" to someone resolved to walk away from the game forever). It is genuinely embarrassing to see someone criticize Armageddon for years simply reduce their expectations severely and crawl back to it instead of finding a better game. It is sad to see people go back to the game after resolving to stay away and lead a more productive life. I don't fault punished ppurg for his views but he's as welcome to them as delerak and shakes are welcome to play Armageddon with severely reduced expectations. He's also free to kick people from his Discord server if they're being disruptive. Wait a moment, does someone think I (Eyeball on the GDB) have returned to Arm? Because I haven't. Even if I wanted to crawl back, there's not one character concept that comes to mind anymore. All of my concepts involved trying to accomplish something and I've had enough frustration. No, I was replying to qwerty's insinuation that eleven people had given you heartfelt goodbyes on the GDB with a counterpoint that at least one of those "heartfelt goodbyes" were the standard sarcastic crap we see in every GDB thread about a player quitting, where another player says something like "see you in X amount of time" because players who quit games often come back to them. I'm glad you made a clean break.
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Post by jcarter on Sept 4, 2019 10:58:27 GMT -5
delerak was the OG scapegoat because he was vocal, persistent, and hung around IRC channels and went to Arm meet-ups. he was disruptive, but not in a trying to cause havoc sort of way. he just liked playing the game a certain way (focused on PKing) and Arm was still trying to figure out the line between carrying harsh themes, like templars can and will mess you up for looking at them, versus being more regulated and cutting out getting PKed while in the desert with no emotes or interaction. everyone knew who he was and somehow this paranoia spun up, where delerak was lurking around the corner circumventing bans and ready to PK you at any time with a super-twinked up character. anything bad that happened was because of delerak who was out to ruin the game and just be a big jerk, etc etc. people who had never been around when he played would keep putting in this narrative despite hearing nothing but second or thirdhand stories about him. i don't know delerak's full stories and grievances, nor how legitimate they were. he's welcome to put them together and throw up a thread. my impressions of it were that he was mostly just an annoyance, wouldn't stop doing stuff when told to knock it off, etc. at one point a staff member, Dyrinis, basically said all right you're a PKing pain in the ass so the only race option you can have is gith, if you're going to PK people then we'll put you to use. i thought that was a pretty clever solution. the trans-staff member peeing had nothing to do with him. that was a staff member, who's gone on to do porn, that peed on another Arm player that iirc was/became a staff member at DragonCon. afaik it was consentual, the big scandal about it was that it was on the livestream that people had going on there. the statement about skills and transparency is funny because these things never occurred until after these boards took off. imo it wasn't done to address complaints so much as to give people less reasons to go looking for these boards. armageddon mud staff and players have tried many times to get these boards killed off, and the easiest way to do it is by removing the need for them. it was a good idea, but i think they missed the point. these boards wouldn't exist if there wasn't such a hush-hush nature. imagine if pinkerdlu posted their complaint on the GDB. it would be locked down, told to file a complaint, and shuffled away. some players would think he was full of shit, some of them might think he was on to something. now imagine if he posted it there, and instead a staff member addressed it and posted a simple snippet from the logs that showed it was a player arrow and told sorry that sucks. that would be the end of it. maybe some discussion about how the archery code is shitty, but no resentment. until staff take that route there's always going to be distrust. there's been plenty of examples over the years of staff shittiness and sweeping the behavior under the rug. they could be perfect angels and there'll still be distrust because of that history and ongoing lack of transparency. and by transparency, i mean discussing what happened, how it happened, and what was done to address it. maybe that'll change some day, but i think it's going to take getting rid of the old guard like adhira and nessalin before that happens.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Sept 4, 2019 11:30:39 GMT -5
delsama bin laden was original public enemy #1 for the overlords and that was even before he made them all shit their pants with the offboard wotc bombing
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najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
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Post by najdorf on Sept 5, 2019 12:27:57 GMT -5
just watched the man's youtube videos, brave & honest opinions. my respects
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