punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Apr 5, 2023 14:05:39 GMT -5
I'm away from computer for a while, so I'll just throw this up without the litany of preamble I was coping to post with. Yeah I'm cringe, and apparently I'm also a glutton for punishment. I'm offering a $100 bounty for information on the Looonsh & Gyn connection. $50 for testimony that undeniably implicates Gyn & Looonsh "violating ethics" in covering for one another; and $50 for proof that their characters were in romance / mudfuckin'. There's a lot of "everyone knows this" going around; and I'm ready to pay for receipts. Unprovable false rumors indeed. If the bounty is unclaimed by the end of April, I will donate $100 to a charity for victims of domestic abuse. Please don't stalk people irl. I don't care about irl people; I only care about power-tripping personas shitting in my desert sandbox. I disavow irl stalking or inquiry that extends beyond the scope of Armageddon & its periphery.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Apr 5, 2023 14:12:11 GMT -5
Staff: Door's open if you want to come back and be unbanned! unless youve said something mean about us ):
good glory
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 5, 2023 15:48:34 GMT -5
If you end up going the charity route and you want recommendations, I've heard Futures Without Violence does good work. Hell, I'll throw them what I can spare in May whether you pay the bounty or not. Fuck these shitheads and everything they do to cover their shitty behavior.
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maziel
staff puppet account
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Post by maziel on Apr 5, 2023 20:43:58 GMT -5
Stating that she got her spot on staff because Loonsh helped get her there from mudfucking his characters is different than stating that she was mudfucking his characters to get an inside edge with Loonsh. The way Halaster interpreted your quote displays his own bias.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Apr 5, 2023 21:00:05 GMT -5
'Very un-provable false' So is it unprovable or is it false
Because if this game had real fucking logs and saving of said logs we'd be able to easily check.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Apr 5, 2023 23:01:57 GMT -5
It's almost like they're still defending Shalooonsh or something.
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bebop
Clueless newb
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Post by bebop on Apr 5, 2023 23:24:02 GMT -5
TBH I don't know if using words like "bounty" and offering money for this is the way to go, but combing through anything a player has ever said on the GDB and these boards doesn't really strike me as the kind of policy that gets players back in the game or assuming good intent when they request it.
It's also still a super tilted stage because staff benefits from private communication, access to private info, public info they can find, and so forth. You can't say we'll assume the best come on back and then try to find anything ever said in speculation, anger, and veto players on whatever you can find. Maybe what you said was sexist, but I posted a litany of sexist encounters I had with current unbanned players and within the game and nothing was done. You're continuing to be banned for something remotely sexist you said on a platform that isn't even the official platform.
So... on one hand, they can comb through things being said on another platform, but on the other hand, they're a game and told me they couldn't do much about Shalooonsh because they're just a game and can't enforce anything outside of it nor could they vet staff. So which is it? Can you comb the Internet looking for a reason not to allow someone into your community and everything is fair game? Or are you assuming good intent and can't examine anything outside the game?
Nothing makes sense. Everything is arbitrary. And the player mod team isn't the one handling this. This is all just such a joke.
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spyguy
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Post by spyguy on Apr 6, 2023 0:14:15 GMT -5
This kind of post sucks but these rumors have apparently been being spread for awhile. I say it sucks because it's really trashing someone's reputations based on rumor but I respect the $100 going to charity if you're proven wrong. I asked a few people about evidence for Shalooonsh cheating and this came into one of the conversations. I'll give you what context I can in the hope that it ends these rumors if no one has any actual proof:
1) Shalooonsh wasn't in a romantic relationship with Gynesis's PC at the time she became staff: Assuming the leak that Gynesis=Rika is true the timing doesn't make sense. My PC Wren was mates with Rika and between RPTs, being the only active Byn Sergeant and their family life there wasn't room. Wren died at the very end of August 2021 and Gynesis became staff in October 2021. I have evidence Rika was mourning Wren for like a RL year+ after his death so this doesn't add up.
2) The rumors seem to be based on Gynesis getting Shalooonsh's support during staff selection and her quick promotion to Admin. Don't you think this might be based on the player's qualities that she got Shalooonsh's support? I get the dude was a creep but he's also not stupid. From my understanding the player of Rika came back from a break to Rika as her first PC in years and she was a fantastic PC. Great emoter, tried to include the virtual environment, played a consistent character and perhaps most importantly Rika stepped up to lead the Byn and did a fantastic job with that when it was really needed. I see no reason she shouldn't have been considered for staff.
3) Gynesis being promoted to Admin quickly: I wasn't playing much at all in the past two years (Thanks Shalooonsh, glad you're fucking banned) but from my interactions with Gynesis they've been a good staffer and it looks like they're very active in clearing requests like kudos. Considering staff have been shorthanded and I imagine some weren't very active, I can totally see how someone fresh with energy could make Admin with no special favors.
4) Rika and Kitanius were super good buddies: I asked a few people so this is second hand. The PCs did connect but most of Rika's connections to Kitanius (at least for plot/RPT stuff) were through being involved in plots for the templarate. It was just that Kitanius was inserted into every plot in the game I guess.
I appreciate the freedom of speech this board gives. Folks talk shit and get pushback. There's a fuckton of pent up resentment in this community and this type of rumor only creates more. I hope that this thread buries this rumor if no one can produce any actual evidence beyond 'It's a woman who Shalooonsh wanted on staff, she must be mudsexing his PC'. That's a really shitty thing to say about someone if they've done nothing wrong.
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Post by dumpsterfirediva on Apr 6, 2023 0:28:30 GMT -5
The sole interaction I know for a fact I had with Gynesis was her stepping in when I had a pc who was not in her clan who was trying to make something that required an item that apparently was not craftable as part of a recipe for a clan recipe. After days of hearing nothing about my question about it, she chimed in and told me that apparently it didn't exist anywhere in the game world, and she made it craftable for the clan so the items (multiple items) that relied on that item could then be made.
I'm a big believer in credit when due. The only time I've knowingly interacted with Gynesis as staff was her going above and beyond the call of duty to help me as a player when my own clan staff had not assisted me at that point.
I don't know what if anything her relationship of Shalooonsh might be, but my perception of her work was good.
If her character wound up with unfair favor, that is... I mean, that seems like it's par for the course for people who are friends with each other and on the top of the shit heap so to speak and that doesn't seem to me to indicate a special relationship beyond having a rank that most players don't have landing her in the staff 'clique' which every single person who've been on staff and off it again and looked back on it, can probably say, staff give each other a pass on things they won't give a player a pass on because they work and talk with each other OOC all the damn time like they expect players not to, and it leads to the exact sort of favortism and bullshit they expect from players doing it, which is why they expect players not to.
Either everyone should be able to freely communicate or... I mean, it should all be a hell of a lot less friendly topside with shit like retreats where you go spending days hole up together somewhere yearly. That's clearly beyond what's needed to communicate to do the job.
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bebop
Clueless newb
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Post by bebop on Apr 6, 2023 0:45:10 GMT -5
I also agree with SpyGuy that it's pretty much impossible to differentiate between favoritism because Shalooonsh had his hands so deep in every single narrative in the game to his on-brand obsessive degree. And you have to understand that he has a nice guy approach in which he acts open and helpful to those he wants to. It's been his thing over the years to befriend people and bring them on. Maybe he did it with Gyn to some degree, but it doesn't necessarily translate into a sexual favors swap.
Ourla was his roommate and is a staunch supporter of his and became a staff member Drinn. Shortly after she, Shalooonsh, and Aromit began hanging out with Gentleboy Max as I understand it he was given a templar and then offered a role on staff. Back in the day, Akariel was one of his Akai S'jirr buddies and later was brought on. Mansa was given a templar with Drinn as his staff member, aka Ourla, with whom he had dated and maintained a long friendship with. His templar was then given skills at three times the rate of mine in addition to singular control of the Jade Sabers and a special magickal weapon at Drinn's direction.
I don't think it's particularly relevant to pin this on Gynesis. I do think her character (Rika) benefited from staff knowledge/privilege and they were all playing avatars while apparently being permitted to stay logged onto their staff account and metagame. But trying to sift out the details of exactly how Shalooonsh manipulated the game and the people around him over the years is a lost cause. The fact of the matter is he did.
There are a lot of relationships that were sexually questionable IG that led to Shalooonsh pursuing information about them or currying friendship/favor with them over the years. I'd personally point out his old ties to Akariel before he (BCW) was put onto staff and things of that nature. This thing with Gyn? I'm not sure that this one, in particular, is relevant. But even if the rumors were true I'm not sure what that proves? We know staff cheated. We know staff acted on favoritism and we know Shalooonsh was all for trying to cultivate that culture and old boys club.
I think offering money and calling it a bounty to try to find information leading to a theory or rumor about people teeters on doxing. I'd advise revoking that offer and if you've still got $100 to throw around go ahead and donate it.
At this point, I feel like we're beating dead horses.
It's obvious Shalooonsh did a bunch of creepy, fucked-up shit. It's obvious that staff favoritism, dishonesty, meta-gaming and cheating happened. It's obvious that they're still playing OOC games and acting in an arbitrary fashion. It's obvious that the open offer to welcome players back was not made with good intent. The result has actually been putting the onus on players to pursue a ban lift and then to interrogate them on their intent and apparently anything they've ever said on the Internet.
Meanwhile, it took them over a month to determine if Shalooonsh had even broken any rules or done anything ban-worthy because they couldn't judge him on things he did that weren't directly on the game. It's a double standard. It's insincere. It's all a bunch of bullshit. If you need any more proof of it at this point I don't know what to say.
It's not fair and it's not going to be. Staff clearly resent players for not enforcing this weird culture of secrecy, aliases, and authoritarianism. I personally don't care to run them into the ground or insult them on a deeply personal level. I just want them to stop fucking around the player base and manipulating them outside of the game.
Don't get me wrong, I think Gyn was using her staff powers to get a minor merchant house, and do things like evade my psion/templar for sure. But again, that staff were doing this and cheating at this point is just obvious.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 6, 2023 4:44:00 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that even if no more new information comes to light, there is already more than enough out there to completely distrust the staff team and their supposed efforts to mend community relations. And even if this effort doesn't lead to the specific info ppurg is asking for, hopefully it leads elsewhere. Given the situation, where staff tried their absolute best to defend Shalooonsh and his reputation until it was no longer the expedient option to them, it just seems like there are a lot of threads to pull on. If they go nowhere, no harm, no foul.
Also, I will say upfront that staff can outwardly appear to do good work and end up being massive cheating assholes. Personally I think being a massive cheating asshole is a bigger detriment to the game than doing good work is a benefit to it. For example: until a couple months ago, the common opinion on Shalooonsh in the game's community was that he was an asshole, but otherwise an entertaining storyteller. This is how he got away with a ton of shit for over a decade.
Saying Gynesis was a hardworking staff member who went above and beyond but also probably cheated is somewhat the same type of cover that Shalooonsh got up until recently. I'm sure it's not wrong that Gynesis is hard-working - many staff are. But that definitely does not absolve her of compromising what little integrity the game has left, if that is what she truly did. And not just Gynesis, but all staff with connections to Shalooonsh in particular should be rooted out - and we already know that at the very least, Brokkr ran interference for him several times. Several former staff like Shabago and Drinn have odd connections to him. The staff clearly think that punishing Shalooonsh was enough to hide the rest of their behavior.
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spyguy
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Post by spyguy on Apr 6, 2023 5:26:24 GMT -5
I also think it's unfair to assume Gynesis in particular cheated. She's said on Discord that she has her request chains of the PClan and followed all the rules with her staffer Katima and I've seen no reason to distrust that. The idea of the hunter PClan was born when GMH hunters were reopened with a ton of stupid-as-fuck rules Shalooonsh insisted on and was an ass about over requests. Wren was going to leave Salarr to not deal with the BS and make the clan with Rika. So the beginnings of it started in July 2021 if you count Wren buying his Allanaki merchant's license. I'm not sure on the timeline but afaik nothing at all was rushed. I've also seen the inside of the finished compound, it's five rooms and while it was well-made with animations and discuss options there's nothing particularly amazing about it. The player of a southern templar confirmed that he was the one using the Spiders as his own private army and involved them in a lot of the plot they got involved in.
Now there are fair arguments that staff knowledge and OOC communication makes playing a politically involved leader very problematic. I'm not in love with the no staff leaders rule but I respect other players feel strongly about it. You can say that staff are likely to treat other staff in a different, more human manner since they know each other OOC and that that's an advantage when making something like a PClan. Personally I think the look that the only two named PClan MMH families I know of are Terash (staff founded right?) and Sasani. The optics of it are terrible even if I honestly believe the PC Rika could have achieved everything they did and more whether Gynesis was staff or not.
The player put an enormous amount of energy in making the Byn fun for underlings while I played with her. I wasn't there to see it but believe she likely put the same energy into her PClan and staffing. Her PC achieved a lot but that doesn't mean it was cheating, I hope any PC can achieve something similar if they live for 2 RL years and put in the effort.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 6, 2023 7:30:00 GMT -5
I think Armers' and RPI players' understanding of staff cheating in general has changed over the years. It's understandable that staff would treat each other in a more humane manner because they are staff. Tribal mentality and all that. Just because it's understandable doesn't mean it's desirable. Staff treating each other well at the expense of players being treated poorly and disregarded is bad. It's perceived as unfair, so it is declared cheating as cheating is also unfair.
Is it actually cheating in the same sense that a staff member codes spells that they want their PC to have, or uses OOC information gleaned from monitoring/reading reports to give their PC a unique advantage? No, but it's still incredibly unfair. I excuse the use of "cheating" as a shorthand for describing staff behavior that runs counter to what should be staff's mission of running a roleplaying game. As for what staff's mission actually is, who's to say? They are busy writing more and more rules as a CYA measure instead of writing a mission statement or core values.
Wanting PCs to get what they deserve from their efforts is great! Staff have repeatedly proven that those rewards largely go to staff and players in the inner circle. That's beyond dispute at this point, and it's worse than just optics, it's demonstrable unfairness.
Personally, I think all staff should be looked into, starting from the top down.
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Post by poorimpulsecontrol on Apr 6, 2023 7:31:55 GMT -5
I was really hoping the amnesty would be extremely lenient. Shit-talk on these boards isn't that big of a deal. If we are wiping the slate clean, wipe the motherfucker and let's move on. Nitpicking shit-talk and old 'crimes' makes it pointless.
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ask
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Post by ask on Apr 6, 2023 8:17:28 GMT -5
1) Shalooonsh wasn't in a romantic relationship with Gynesis's PC at the time she became staff: Assuming the leak that Gynesis=Rika is true the timing doesn't make sense. My PC Wren was mates with Rika and between RPTs, being the only active Byn Sergeant and their family life there wasn't room. Wren died at the very end of August 2021 and Gynesis became staff in October 2021. I have evidence Rika was mourning Wren for like a RL year+ after his death so this doesn't add up. 2) The rumors seem to be based on Gynesis getting Shalooonsh's support during staff selection and her quick promotion to Admin. Don't you think this might be based on the player's qualities that she got Shalooonsh's support? I get the dude was a creep but he's also not stupid. From my understanding the player of Rika came back from a break to Rika as her first PC in years and she was a fantastic PC. Great emoter, tried to include the virtual environment, played a consistent character and perhaps most importantly Rika stepped up to lead the Byn and did a fantastic job with that when it was really needed. I see no reason she shouldn't have been considered for staff. 3) Gynesis being promoted to Admin quickly: I wasn't playing much at all in the past two years (Thanks Shalooonsh, glad you're fucking banned) but from my interactions with Gynesis they've been a good staffer and it looks like they're very active in clearing requests like kudos. Considering staff have been shorthanded and I imagine some weren't very active, I can totally see how someone fresh with energy could make Admin with no special favors. 4) Rika and Kitanius were super good buddies: I asked a few people so this is second hand. The PCs did connect but most of Rika's connections to Kitanius (at least for plot/RPT stuff) were through being involved in plots for the templarate. It was just that Kitanius was inserted into every plot in the game I guess. I appreciate the freedom of speech this board gives. Folks talk shit and get pushback. There's a fuckton of pent up resentment in this community and this type of rumor only creates more. I hope that this thread buries this rumor if no one can produce any actual evidence beyond 'It's a woman who Shalooonsh wanted on staff, she must be mudsexing his PC'. That's a really shitty thing to say about someone if they've done nothing wrong. Was your PC the one she had matching tattoos with? Was he the one who she told my PC she could never be with this person, but she loved him dearly? Has anyone ever been monogamous on that game? How do you know there wasn't time? I staffed Gynesis when I was on Arm staff and she would make time, if you get my drift. And yes, she is Gyn. It was confirmed when Halaster was upset she got "doxxed". The fact of the matter is that it doesn't mean shit how hard you supposedly work (really, resolving staff kudos and gdb join/leave requests take ten seconds), if you get all of these bonuses (becoming a MMH in two years?, becoming admin super quickly), people will speculate. And Shalooonsh isn't just "super good friends" with people. C'mon now. He always expected more and got it very often. Also, editing to add: she was staffing the Byn while Rika had a romance going with the sergeant. That's a HUGE STAFF NO NO.
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