Would you want to play a game of D&D where the Dungeon Master sat back and let the players do all the work? Fuck no. The admins have forgotten the face of their fathers.
I've often thought this as well..
But today, was wondering. Are muds an evolution of table top gaming (bridging the distance between players)? Are they an evolution of text-based games like Beyond Zork or even ASCI style games like Nethack (multiplayer)?
I'm sure I could google and find somethings. But, more interested in what jaded players think.
Post by purgpurgpurg on Aug 23, 2019 13:34:45 GMT -5
MUDs are an evolution of talkies / telnet BBS / the early form of what we would call MUSHes today; mixed with old roleplaying mechanics.
It's interesting to think of Zork. A port for Zork, named DUNGEON, influenced the guy who made the first "MUD". He made his own text game pulling from that influence, but multiplayer: Multi-User Dungeon, hence the original name.
If you go back and look at the history of MUD development, how they directly informed Everquest, you can see how these old text games have informed and influenced MMOs and RPGs in general.
They're like an evolutionary fork of fantasy roleplaying in a way: one of the prototypes of multiplayer games in general.
They come from some nerd hosting the program on their server. The simplicity is really appealing.
Purg pretty much got it right. MUDs also doubled as college projects for coders looking to show their chops and get their game on. That is why the major MUD codebases are all licensed non-profit. They were required to be because they were run on college servers and done as college projects with these very large teams of students.
It's not just their simplicity, but their ability to automate massive amounts of the minutae that DMs deal with. You create one mob template and then construct an infinite amount of that type, or even set the computer to check for a count in game and spawn more, or have a finite amount that respawn every so often. It allows the world to persist even without an active DM present, steering the wheel.
The idea was that this would leave the DM to handle the things which can't really be automated. Storytelling. Roleplaying. Narratives.
There were some single-player text games back in the early days of personal computing. One day, someone worked out how to connect a game like that to some university network or whatever, and local MUDs were born. Often they were just talkies, not much gameplay. Then in the 80s, some started to design their MUDs to be more game than chatroom. DIKU was developed in the late 80s in Denmark (Datalogisk Institut Kobenhavns Universitet) by people whose names you still see when you log into any DIKU-based MUD (Katja Nyboe, Sebastian Seifert, etc.) Since the internet as we know it was starting to become a thing around this time, it led to an explosion in public online MUDs built on DIKU. While DIKU wasn't the birth of MUDs as D&D-like games, it was definitely a pioneer for plug-and-play stock code. The branches of the MUD tree that preceded DIKU were mostly homemade codebases that weren't very practical for others to pick up. DIKU brought like a 5000% increase in the number of MUDs.
In the beginning, MUDs of the same codebase were pretty similar to eachother. People didn't get too adventurous with their code customizations. Usually the areas, NPCs and items would be unique, but the classes, skills, spells and general game mechanics would be mostly stock. One of the big decisions for MUDs at the time was whether or not to allow equipment to be saved on logout, and you can still see "equipment saves on exit" listed as a feature on some MUD sites to this day. More codebases started to crop up and branch out further into sub-genres until it got so muddled that DIKU remains the only universally recognizable "brand" in the MUD community. This stems in part from fact that the DIKU license prohibits monetization of any MUD built on the codebase. Back in the late 90s when MMORPGs were becoming a thing, a bunch of MUDs suddenly tried to monetize as well which caused many players to deliberately seek out DIKU MUDs because these would always be free.
Armageddon began somewhere around 91-93, I can't remember. It wasn't until like 96 or so that it really became a roleplaying game. Prior to that, it was pretty normal on MUDs for most players to be kind of in-character, though not really the kind of RP you'd see on an RPI, and it wasn't usually enforced by rules. People would just talk in an accent and put up tacky fantasyesque who-titles and stuff like that. Then little by little, Armageddon became more about roleplay and realism. The RPI ruleset gradually formed and then gave rise to a genre of MUDs following the tenets of permadeath, always-IC, no exp/levels, etc. That's how you got Harshlands which had a very unique and extremely RP-centric code. This was used to make Shadows of Isildur which was Armageddon's main competitor around 2004-2010. One day some staff split away from SoI to start AtonementRPI, and around this time the code was restructured into the open source RPI Codebase which Shadows of Isildur now uses. That's the abridged history of RPIs. There have been other ones like The Inquisition and ParallelRPI, but the main timeline of the RPI tree goes Arm>HL>SoI>Ato>SoI2.0 where it has kind of ended while FutureMUD is in development.
Last Edit: Aug 24, 2019 15:41:05 GMT -5 by lechuck
mehtastic: Sure, but you don't actually know for sure if it's the player, or someone else inspired by the player's style. Staff know for sure, 100% of the time, who is playing whom. That's the difference.
Sept 5, 2019 10:53:34 GMT -5
delerak: the player base for arm has alwayus been small overall. it is almost guarnateed if you sort the memberlist for the gdb by posts the top 10-20 posters have been or currently are on staff with alternate names.
Sept 5, 2019 11:37:11 GMT -5
delerak: it's nice to be 'anonymous' in game though. players will absolutely go after you if they know you got them before in years gone byt
Sept 5, 2019 11:37:55 GMT -5
qwerty: While proooobably true
Sept 5, 2019 12:40:31 GMT -5
qwerty: I try not to think this way. A bit of a self delusion potentially, but it makes it for a much better gameplay
Sept 5, 2019 12:40:47 GMT -5
qwerty: If you just stop thinking about all the ooc bullshit and just fucking play the game
Sept 5, 2019 12:41:01 GMT -5
qwerty: and if someone is unexplainably hostile to you for no good reason. Chalk it off to being an asshole and slit their throat
Sept 5, 2019 12:41:42 GMT -5
qwerty: All in all, in my observation. OOC relativity comes about cliques, then hostility. As in, players might not care if you offed their previous character. But they might like and include another PC whom they talk to more often ooc.
Sept 5, 2019 12:42:44 GMT -5
qwerty: But again. You cant control it. Cant prove it. The nagging suspicion will ruin your gameplay. I just try not to worry about it and react to the gameworld events as if there is no ooc influence. Doing anything else makes for a really shitty experience
Sept 5, 2019 13:01:26 GMT -5
qwerty: You cant stop people from talking ooc. And if people talk ooc, it's bound to happen that they cooperate ooc. Or ... or not. But you wont know and therefore, you'll suspect. And this suspicion will kill the game for you.
Sept 5, 2019 17:46:21 GMT -5
qwerty: 4/5 times someone rages against staff, staff had nothing to do with it. It's just number one suspicion people go to.
Sept 5, 2019 17:47:19 GMT -5
mehtastic: Ignorance is bliss.
Sept 5, 2019 17:50:44 GMT -5
delerak: I recently accused staff of some nonsense. They showed me the log and I felt embarrassed. It's hard to shake the paranoia of days gone by when you were slayed by staff for going afk and using a script to forage wood.
Sept 5, 2019 18:32:02 GMT -5
jkarr: look east. near: agafari forest. far: agafari forest. very far: the ghost of halaster is here grinning evilly
Sept 5, 2019 22:30:43 GMT -5