sneazy
Clueless newb
Posts: 115
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Post by sneazy on Feb 6, 2019 16:03:54 GMT -5
It's not open yet but still going strong. When they open, I'll be playing there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 16:21:21 GMT -5
That's so awesome. For some reason, I thought it ended up dead in the water.
Who's doing it? Is it completely closed for play currently?
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Post by shakes on Feb 6, 2019 16:23:16 GMT -5
I thought it died too.
It seemed to me that they had creative strength and technical weaknesses, and you (sneazy) has technical strength and creative weakness.
A match made in heaven, you guys.
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sneazy
Clueless newb
Posts: 115
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Post by sneazy on Feb 6, 2019 16:38:36 GMT -5
The one on discord is doing fine as far as I know. But they have some strong technical strengths. So I don't know if we're talking about the same one.
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Post by shakes on Feb 6, 2019 17:11:14 GMT -5
Hrm. Most likely then I don't know what I'm talking about. Trying to piece together what I remember from random, disconnected posts on the forums over the years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 17:28:03 GMT -5
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 6, 2019 17:55:51 GMT -5
No, ibusoe's project is completely different and not specifically related to Armageddon. They're talking about a separate project that has been in the works (though its been playable for quite a while) for a couple of years. I don't know if ibusoe is still working on his potential MUD.
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Post by psyxypher on Feb 6, 2019 19:28:31 GMT -5
I've been dying to look at the Armageddon Code, figure out all the (code-based) secrets in the game. The magic system has always been of interest to me. Speaking of which, what programming language does it use?
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sneazy
Clueless newb
Posts: 115
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Post by sneazy on Feb 8, 2019 11:10:02 GMT -5
Not really wanting to start another thread. Here's a start to the "strength" stat experiment. Created two characters - dwarfboy and elfboy. Set their stats to max and give each one a single weapon (no armor). Load a ritikki and see how much damage they do. They are both getting a -2 age penalty to strength and +1 for warrior class. Notes: ritikkis kept running away so set stealth to 90 for elfboy and dwarfboy set the ritikkis with the same health/stun/str/agi/etc. before the fight these are old school warrior classes so they are starting at 10 skill elf str = 14 (penalty applied) and dwarf strength = 20 w/penalty Conclusion: From one run, it's hard to see a huge advantage of strength against a mob. Also, just another example of what you can do with codydumps. ostat sword Keyword list: 'sword bone curved' Short description: 'a curved sword of bone' Plural Short description: 'curved swords of bone' Long description: 'A curved sword of bone lies on the ground.' Description: (null) Type: WEAPON Weight: 0.06 stones (0.06 current) Value: 150 Coins Damage:0d1+0 Material: bone Limit: None. Hit Points: 0 Max Hit Points: 0 Carried by Mooby in room Windswept Grasslands [56002]. EFLAGS: WFLAGS: take ep es SFLAGS:
COLOR FLAGS:
ADVERBIAL FLAGS:
Affects characters with: [0] nothing. loc 0, mod 0 [1] nothing. loc 0, mod 0 val1( plus)--1 val2( numdice)-1 val3( sizedice)-8 val4( wtype)-slash val5( )-0 val6( poison)-none
---------- set both to max for their race (might not be applicable to current game) ELF strength 15 agility 26 wisdom 33 endurance 16
DWARF range strength 21 agility 18 wisdom 18 endurance 21
----------------------------------- cstat ritikki
Thirst:-1(Max:20), Hunger:-1(Max:20), Drunken:-1(Max:100) Character keyword list: 'ritikki angular insect' Character short description: 'an angular ritikki' Character long description: Code Generated Long Description an angular ritikki is a mere mortal creature. Race: Ritikki Guild: Warrior SubGuild: (null) Age: 15 years Tribe: 45 (Unknown) Karma: 0 Hometown: 0 (None) Start City: 0 (None) Weight: 2 ten-stone Height: 28 inches Size: 4 Armor: 20 (20) points Health: 80/80 Mana: 12/12 Stamina: 110/110 Stun: 99/99 Str: 6 Agil: 9 Wis: 1 End: 10 Coins Carried: 0 In bank: 0 Character Flags: npc stay_zone flee
Affect Flags: None. EVNT_REST:[ 20] ritikki angular insect EVNT_MOVE:[ 52] ritikki angular insect -----------------------------------------------
elfboy vs ritikki ------------------
kill ritikki You slash an angular ritikki's thorax. You nick an angular ritikki's hindleg with your slash. You slash an angular ritikki very hard on its head. You slash an angular ritikki's thorax. You slash an angular ritikki very hard on its midleg. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. You nick an angular ritikki's hindleg with your slash. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. You slash an angular ritikki, barely grazing its thorax. You nick an angular ritikki's thorax with your slash. You land a solid slash to an angular ritikki's hindleg. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. You slash an angular ritikki's hindleg. You slash an angular ritikki, barely grazing its thorax. You slash an angular ritikki's arm. You nick an angular ritikki's thorax with your slash. An angular ritikki crumples to the ground.
Fri Feb 8 10:20:35 2019: (kill): [56002] Elfboy (Baccount): "kill ritikki" Fri Feb 8 10:20:35 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 8 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:20:50 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 3 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:20:53 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 12 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:20:56 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 7 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:20:59 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 14 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:02 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:05 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 4 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:08 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:11 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 1 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:14 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 4 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:17 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 9 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:20 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:23 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 7 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:26 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 2 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:29 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 7 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:21:32 2019: the elfboy damage done this round = 4 to an angular ritikki
cset dwarfboy skill 90 sneak the unimportant dwarfboy (PC) has been set with sneak at 90%. Done.
234hp 300mv 243st> cset elfboy skill 90 sneak the elfboy (PC) has been set with sneak at 90%. Done.
/* percent: 2, roll: 71 = Elfboy saw them */ The unimportant dwarfboy (Dwarfboy) stealthily moves east.
----------dwarfboy vs ritikki
kill ritikki You slash an angular ritikki very hard on its thorax. You slash an angular ritikki very hard on its thorax. You nick an angular ritikki's arm with your slash. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. You slash an angular ritikki very hard on its hindleg. You land a solid slash to an angular ritikki's arm. You land a solid slash to an angular ritikki's thorax. You land a solid slash to an angular ritikki's arm. You lightly slash an angular ritikki's thorax. An angular ritikki swiftly dodges your slash. You slash an angular ritikki's arm. An angular ritikki crumples to the ground.
Fri Feb 8 10:29:13 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 14 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:14 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 12 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:17 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 4 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:20 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:23 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:26 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:29 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 13 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:32 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 10 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:35 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 11 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:38 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 10 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:47 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 5 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:50 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 0 to an angular ritikki Fri Feb 8 10:29:50 2019: gain_skill: Dwarfboy gained 1 points of skill in 'slashing weapons' (10 => 11), max is 70 Fri Feb 8 10:29:53 2019: the unimportant dwarfboy damage done this round = 7 to an angular ritikki
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Post by lechuck on Feb 8, 2019 14:38:46 GMT -5
It's far too small a sample size. Note, for instance, that the dwarf hits the ritikki's arms/legs 55% of the time while the elf hits those locations 46% of the time, and gets a headshot while the dwarf doesn't. The RNG favored the elf, and it still took the elf about 50% more hits to kill the ritikki, and 50% longer in real time. In fights with more head/neck shots to amplify the strength bonus, the difference would have been much more pronounced.
Furthermore, setting all stats to max creates an unrealistic scenario. In reality, no elf is going to have 15 strength and 26 agility. People prioritize agility with their elves because the only reason to play that race is to capitalize on its extremely high agility. What we've been discussing lately on this forum isn't max strength of one race vs. max strength of another, it's average vs. max strength (mainly for humans).
I'd like to see that test done, and it needs to be done more than once in order to prove anything. Also do it against a human target because ritikki may have different hitlocs leading to more limb shots which mitigates the benefits of strength in a way that doesn't reflect humanoid vs. humanoid combat. The discussions have been about PvP so testing against an insect isn't optimal.
Run 3x10 tests run against a human dummy: 10 with average strength, 10 with max strength, and 10 with max strenght + etwo. A single fight has way too much RNG to be statistically sound.
One thing does stand out to me in that log, though: the elf gets 16 attacks in 57 seconds while the dwarf gets 13 attacks in 40 seconds. That's peculiar with an agility difference of eight points. Any thoughts on that? Is agility even worse for attack speed than we thought?
I'll also note that the dwarf's damage per hit seems abnormally low for max dwarf strength. Having had a few characters with exceptional dwarf strength myself, the damage was considerably higher than that. Routine wounds+ are the norm with that strength. Meanwhile, an elf hitting the leg for 14 damage with a 1d8-1 weapon and no bonus from strength shouldn't even be possible according to my understanding of the code. Between that and the attack speed oddity, are you sure there isn't something wrong with your code?
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sneazy
Clueless newb
Posts: 115
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Post by sneazy on Feb 8, 2019 15:17:11 GMT -5
I agree about the confounding variables and this is not a proof of any kind EXCEPT a proof of concept to show the question about strength can easily be studied with experiments instead of posting anecdotal data and opinions.
I've posted on this board how to get codydumps up and running; but, I'm not going to run the experiments.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 8, 2019 15:56:56 GMT -5
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sneazy
Clueless newb
Posts: 115
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Post by sneazy on Feb 8, 2019 17:39:51 GMT -5
Ouch, hurt my fee fees. Oh wait. I don't have any.
Alright, I'll run a few - maybe 10 fights to completion? You guys come up with the parameters. race, stats, skill percents (off/def/weapons/etc) - you determine what is being left to RNG. Easiest to leave off any armor since I'd have to go looking for anything special. If you want special armor or weapons tested, come up with the stats to those as well. I posted a list of weapons awhile back.
I should have some time tomorrow to run it. If not then Monday. So spec it out.
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Post by lechuck on Feb 8, 2019 17:53:36 GMT -5
I'd take two humans, one with 10 strength and 19 agility, the other with 19 strength and 10 agility. Give them both the same weapon and let them fight a 100hp human NPC. Skills don't really matter, just set them all to 40 or something. Show the results like you did in the above post.
However, I remain curious about those results because the damage and attack speed shown in that experiment don't feel like they match up with what I've experienced in the actual game. That dwarf had more "attacks per second" (for want of a better term) than the elf, and the damage was a lot lower than I've personally seen of max dwarf strength.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 18:17:27 GMT -5
Are you looking for just straight DPS, Lechuk? If so, then skills do matter as they provide the randomness that skews everything up.
Create a 1000 hp NPC with max defense for test one. And a 1000 hp NPC with max defense 'and' maxed parry/shield use for test two. Then figure out the damage output of someone with 10 strength/19 agility and 19 agility/10 strength, both having maxed offense and their weapon skills.
Although the outcome is likely pretty obvious.
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