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Post by shakes on Jul 12, 2018 15:17:38 GMT -5
I post here and I haven't been banned, and I've disclosed more than enough for them to figure out who I am. I haven't been docked karma for posting here or have them even say anything about it.
I think the fear that we're this underground cult of edgelords plotting against the game who face sanctions if we're discovered is overblown. May be I get banned tomorrow and then I'll agree that yes, they are pretty hostile towards this forum, but until that happens ... I'm not ready to believe that they'd be so petty.
It WOULD be pretty petty. More OOC info gets spread on their discord and AIM cliques than ever gets posted here, and I suspect many people post here for the same reason I do ... the stranglehold of censorship on the GDB.
Though it's somewhat a toss-up which gets on my nerves more sometimes ... the sycophantic posts designed as a prayer offering for karma and staff love on the GDB, or the vitriol-filled hate rants and irrational paranoia I see here on this forum.
I'd much prefer just a basic dialectic about any issues, uncensored and out from under the fear of retribution.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 12, 2018 15:29:26 GMT -5
A few years ago (2014 or 2015?) they went through and banned a lot of Shadowboard posters who made themselves known, without warning. Yes, it's a fear with some relevance and background. Since then, I'm pretty sure staff has offered amnesty to most banned players. I think they are done with handing out bans willy-nilly. They need the players. Any relevant code has been leaked, any relevant mechanics have been discussed, etc. At this point it's just petty bickering and watching the ship sink (or rise?)
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jul 12, 2018 15:31:47 GMT -5
I doubt they'll care at all unless I start posting logs from when I was last on staff or something equally egregious. lol that very recent 'development' had nothing to do with them 'not caring' and everything to do with them realizing how stupid they looked to the rest of the world when the ban notices for 'suspected membership on a cheaters board' were saved and posted here for everyone to see tldr they did everything in their power to fuck players over who visited this board until they realized theyd lose 90+% of their pbase if they applied the rule to everyone who came to mordor. 'not caring at all' is the best they can do to try saving face after their online gestapo tactics backfired, making them look like complete idiots and creating room for more honest critiques on that very stupidity |
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Post by shakes on Jul 12, 2018 15:59:00 GMT -5
My suspicion is just that some wiser heads got promoted up who realized it didn't help and was probably hurting. I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised if the same people in charge in 2014 are in charge now. And people do mellow sometimes.
The muds where you don't see an independent forum form somewhere are generally ones where the pbase has no passion.
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ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Jul 28, 2018 18:04:28 GMT -5
A few years ago (2014 or 2015?) they went through and banned a lot of Shadowboard posters who made themselves known, without warning. Yes, it's a fear with some relevance and background. Since then, I'm pretty sure staff has offered amnesty to most banned players. I think they are done with handing out bans willy-nilly. They need the players. Any relevant code has been leaked, any relevant mechanics have been discussed, etc. At this point it's just petty bickering and watching the ship sink (or rise?)
Yes, and this is an essential point. I think that newer players should know that they're engaging in an ailing project, one run by people that are the institutional inheritors of a rather rotten group of people.
If as a newer player, someone new to these very boards, anyone considers me to be a somewhat reasonable person or possessed of good judgment, please exercise the utmost caution in personal dealings with the staff of Armageddon. They're sensitive, unilateral almost to a fault, and not interested in a collaborative gaming atmosphere. These are not people with whom I'd leave a set of back-up keys to my apartment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 1:52:45 GMT -5
This does though sort of create a self perpetuating circle of hate, does it not?
Staff are comprised of players.
Arm in all of it's glory is very effective in driving people away, but the constant smear compaign, the fake accusations, the bots, etc is preventing even more people from playing the game. Therefore no new players.\
No new players, no new better staff.
In the end, people complain that Arm is not improving, while taking an effective part in preventing Arm from improving. And clearly in some cases, the methods they use are 'not' just a matter of information dissemination. It's via creating fake profiles that lay fake sexual harassment accusations. Creating voting bots to blatantly get Arm banned from voting sites.
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Post by jcarter on Jul 29, 2018 7:08:56 GMT -5
what was the evidence again that the voting bots were from an angry player?
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 7:35:30 GMT -5
what was the evidence again that the voting bots were from an angry player? @qwerty and the rest of the GDB shitlords' fever dreams doesn't count as evidence? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 11:38:59 GMT -5
Arm in all of it's glory is very effective in driving people away, but the constant smear compaign, the fake accusations, the bots, etc is preventing even more people from playing the game. Therefore no new players.\ No new players, no new better staff. At least three of the angry people posting here have been on staff. At some point, they were acceptable replacements, even if I doubt they are seen that way anymore by staff. I'm surprised that staff doesnt expect to be griefed in a game that encourages that behavior. Worse, people being difficult here has seemingly motivated at least one staff replacement and several needed mechanical changes to the game. I'd say the nogoodniks are "winning". I dont know what an effective next step looks like, other than a dialogue between offended parties. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 12:42:44 GMT -5
what was the evidence again that the voting bots were from an angry player?
Because there were thousands of votes within days, if not hours? A blind man would notice that they're being inflated. If the bot was ment to help, it'd be subtle inflation. Not just a sheer flooding. TMS wasnt able to stop that bot from working for probably a few weeks too.
Use of vote inflation bots isnt new. And it may be that some muds use them already. But they do it subtly, a slow inflation that does not flag anyone down. That ... was not what happened.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 13:00:00 GMT -5
Arm in all of it's glory is very effective in driving people away, but the constant smear compaign, the fake accusations, the bots, etc is preventing even more people from playing the game. Therefore no new players.\ No new players, no new better staff. At least three of the angry people posting here have been on staff. At some point, they were acceptable replacements, even if I doubt they are seen that way anymore by staff. I'm surprised that staff doesnt expect to be griefed in a game that encourages that behavior. Worse, people being difficult here has seemingly motivated at least one staff replacement and several needed mechanical changes to the game. I'd say the nogoodniks are "winning". I dont know what an effective next step looks like, other than a dialogue between offended parties. Oh. I am very much in support of these forums existence. The things discussed here have affected Arm in many positive ways. It helped lessen the whole "Find out IC" bullshit, it helped a lot of things. And when it was just that I've participated in these forums plenty. In more then just 'argument' capacity, but helping break the secrecy barrier and letting people learn the awesome parts of the game that are needlessly coveted and hidden.
But those were discussions, not an outright, steady paced, determined smear compaign. With use of bots, 1 post profiles, fake sex assault accusations, etc. This is where it not only stops being helpful, but becomes an outright attack. This is where someone is using you, yours, and others forums to directly injure a mud community. It stops being less of a discussion on how someone could do better, and more becomes into "DIE, DIE, and BURN!" Which is obviously is 'not' constructive in any way. And if anything only makes things worse. Which, I think is the goal for some people.
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Post by jcarter on Jul 29, 2018 13:26:42 GMT -5
what was the evidence again that the voting bots were from an angry player? Because there were thousands of votes within days, if not hours? A blind man would notice that they're being inflated. If the bot was ment to help, it'd be subtle inflation. Not just a sheer flooding. TMS wasnt able to stop that bot from working for probably a few weeks too.
Use of vote inflation bots isnt new. And it may be that some muds use them already. But they do it subtly, a slow inflation that does not flag anyone down. That ... was not what happened.
So because a vote bot attempt was not performed well it therefore must have been some ne'er-do-well that is out to sabotage Arm, rather than an overzealous player/staffer that set a timer variable wrong? But those were discussions, not an outright, steady paced, determined smear compaign. With use of bots, 1 post profiles, fake sex assault accusations, etc. This is where it not only stops being helpful, but becomes an outright attack. ah yes, the organized hate campaign against armageddon. i have worked with a forensic artist to come up with a composite sketch of the common delusion:  he was last seen ejecting in an escape pod into the sunset, shaking his fist and yelling "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, ARMAGEDDON MUD!" |
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 13:37:18 GMT -5
It's bizarre as all hell. When @qwerty isn't bashing me he's pushing the narrative that this forum should be constructive and helpful to Armageddon. As if constructive criticism has ever had an effect on Arm. Even a child can see that Armageddon's policy largely operates on reacting to events rather than criticism. Something bad is happening? Change the rules or the code until it stops. There is no consideration for criticism, there is no planning for the future, there is just "what can we do now for immediate short-term benefit?".
The few times that the game's staff have listened to this forum are coincidental at best. At worst, they have looked at this forum to find people to crack down on.
Following that logic, it stands to reason that some idiot in the Armageddon community fucked up on a timer or thought that the voting rate was subtle enough to pass, given how zealous they are when it comes to pushing their game up in the vote rankings. It's a short term benefit gained from as little work as possible. Just like every other change to the game in the past decade.
@qwerty's paranoia about me and others on this forum is just a small representation of the standard position that most people in the Armageddon community take on critics, particularly those who see the game as in constant decline.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 14:03:49 GMT -5
Because there were thousands of votes within days, if not hours? A blind man would notice that they're being inflated. If the bot was ment to help, it'd be subtle inflation. Not just a sheer flooding. TMS wasnt able to stop that bot from working for probably a few weeks too.
Use of vote inflation bots isnt new. And it may be that some muds use them already. But they do it subtly, a slow inflation that does not flag anyone down. That ... was not what happened.
So because a vote bot attempt was not performed well it therefore must have been some ne'er-do-well that is out to sabotage Arm, rather than an overzealous player/staffer that set a timer variable wrong?
What can I say. Everyone can believe what they'd like to believe.. The moderators of TMC and TMS, with access of the logs and any other real data, believe this was done to injure Arm's reputation.
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 14:08:11 GMT -5
That covers TMC's belief. Armageddon still isn't listed on TMS, which is a completely different site.
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