delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jun 3, 2018 22:35:34 GMT -5
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julio
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 270
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Post by julio on Jun 3, 2018 23:06:00 GMT -5
Not sure why I revealed that tidbit I very rarely post about who I play but thought it was necessary for context that everyone knew I was there when the Byn thing went down. You sound fun to play with. What mud are you in now?
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jun 4, 2018 8:22:26 GMT -5
Not really anywhere, too busy. Forums are an easy 10-15 minute checkin every week or so but an actual time investment into a game right now is impossible, and muds rarely interest me anymore, I just don't have the time/patience to deal with the people that run them, as I get older I've noticed I am far more selective with whom I spend/waste my time with.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Jun 4, 2018 14:20:07 GMT -5
only with your mom. Boom. And I play arm a few times a week. Boom? Oh okay, you got me man, I don't know how I will recover from that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 15:28:52 GMT -5
Really, thinking more about it, there have been many instances where clans became so "powerful" that the staff intervened:
1. Salarri Expansion Division 2. The Kuraci Outriders 3. The Conclave 4. The Guild under Gin/pregnant tentacle monster. 5. The Tan Muark 6. Building from the Expansion Division, other merchant houses who assembled strong cadres of hunters (detracts from Byn/AoD fighter chars) 7. The Black Moon Raiders
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ibusoe
Clueless newb
Posts: 176
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Post by ibusoe on Jun 16, 2018 18:45:44 GMT -5
I was wondering today about player-created clans and shops. There's a helpfile on it, and the system was (of course) designed by Nyr, so the requirments are incredibly prohibitive. I realized that outside of the Black Moon company, I can't think of anyone getting anything done in this regard. And the Black Moon did it before the rules were there, so they didn't go through all the same hoops. They're not an actual trading company with a clan compound etc., they just have a warehouse and shop from before the rules were made official. Here are the rules: So, has anybody managed to do any of this shit? The rules are bonkers. Think about this in IC terms: in order to become a hawker in the bazaar selling your clay spoons and grass baskets, you need to have a warehouse and have spent many thousands of coins in taxes, including a 5000 licensing fee. How the fuck is this even explained from the game world's perspective? It's a bazaar. Have they ever seen a bazaar? Are the bazaar NPCs and descriptions representative of individuals who earn many thousands of coins every year? They're earless elves and scruffy peddlers. There's one that just sells bandanas, one that just sells bags. A bazaar is a place where you just go and start selling shit. These rules are so hilariously out of touch with the setting. Next issue is the sheer time. Since you have to do all of the above steps in sequence - that is, you can't go from warehouse owner directly to minor merchant house - we're talking thirteen years of working on this shit before you even qualify to apply for a MMH. If you then add the time it would take to even get to the point where you could be considered for the warehouse (it says a minimum of 1 IG year, but we all know you're not getting a warehouse a month and a half after making your character), and the fact that you aren't likely to go through each of these steps in the minimum required time, we're probably talking about 20 years of work. That's like two and a half RL years. Just for my own amusement, I looked up how long it took to form the East India Trading Company: A year. True, but you seem to have omitted the fact that most of the principles in the company left their parents farm at the age of 12 for an apprenticeship at Lloyd's, or a cabin boy position in Her Majesty's Navy. They were unlikely much below 50 years of age at time that they received the Charter you were mentioning. Plus they had like 200+ other dudes. You're leaving out about 30 years of career climbing. But I'll concede your point, that it's way too hard to get anything done in Arm. I'll apologize for this, because the Clan Formation system that you're lampooning is at least partially my fault. My fault, you wonder? Mr. Ibusoe is a fairly anonymous fellow, how can it be my fault? But first, some backstory. About 15 years ago I was staff on another MUD. Actually, I was running the MUD. In what I'm about to write, I'll make another apology because it's at least 15% speculation, and no more than 40% facts, but unless some Arm Staff member or other comes forward I suppose we'll never know the truth. There was some indication that Arm had a plant on my staff, as even during my tenure there some of the ideas I was using to push my MUD along began to appear under increasingly unlikely conditions in Arm herself. I'm not necessarily accusing anyone of foul play here, since most of my playbook was largely based upon taking everything that was broken in Arm and pretty much doing the opposite. Basic reforms made sense, then as now. One of tenants of my administration was that game conflict between (OOC) friends was good or necessary, and then when push came to shove staff should stay out of it and the chips should fall where they may. Pursuant to this, I deigned that most of the munitions of game conflict, things like spies, intel, weapons, spellbooks, mercenaries, slaves, hirelings, mounts, territories, forts, fields, equipment and siege engines should pretty much all be for sale from NPC at market prices. That way no one could accuse the staff of favoritism, and the results of conflict would prevent petty jerk-faces from accumulating power and bullying other players. If you ticked off too many players, nobody would be willing to work with you, I theorized, and so the balance of power in game would favor popular, competent, organized and shrewd players. You'd have a lot fewer Pearls. One of the cornerstones of this axiom was that clans should be deemphasized in the power structures, and anyways any player could start a clan if they simply forked over enough gold to buy a fort. If you had a fort, at the least NPCs would want to flock to your offering of safety. Unless you were completely horrible, NPC would try to help maintain and protect their dwelling. Most of the rules I implemented weren't too far off of Nyr's clan creation format. Just in case anyone thinks that all of this is stupid, keep in mind that the rules prior to this were downright awful. This is what people call a memory hole, if you think the current rules are stupid either you're new, or you've forgotten that they're now far more liberal/achievable than they used to be. Before that, there was pretty much no way to start a clan, because no two staff members could agree on a canonical process, and regardless any proposed process would have required items/accomplishments themselves that weren't tenable. The nice thing about gold, is that nearly anyone can get their hands on it. Still think the idea sucks? I sincerely apologize, but it made sense at the time. Any Nyr? Don't worry about borrowing my idea without attribution. You're welcome.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Jun 16, 2018 18:59:38 GMT -5
I can't really see the connection. Whether or not there was some appropriation of ideas (I have no idea, not knowing who you are or what other game you're talking about), the point is that Armageddon players had complained that with the total collapse of staff support for any endeavors, there was no way to make any kind of mark on the game anymore. Staff responded by presenting ways to ostensibly form your own clan, while making it so prophibitively difficult and time-consuming that one is forced to believe that they didn't actually want people to accomplish it. Or, at least, only the ones they could carefully vet. Point in case, how many new clans have sprung up in recent years?
While the game obviously wasn't littered with player-made clans before these rules, it was a thing that was known to happen; and, more importantly, it was something players had a certain belief in. If you made an effort and had the right ideas, you might be able to start your own thing. That was the impression, whether or not it was fact. By presenting the playerbase with rules so laughably cumbersome that probably less than 1% of people who have ever played Armageddon have had even one character who might qualify, they sent the message that it simply isn't something you should consider realistically possible. That's the opposite of what a game like Armageddon needs.
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