julio
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 270
|
Post by julio on May 17, 2018 20:59:06 GMT -5
We know its coming... It must.
So what will they do to rescue it?
Close every starter city except allanak and make the game smaller?
Narrow down races? Kill off all magick?
I mean... Its just failure after failure....
Arm 2.0, karma changes, sub guild changes... Its crazy.
So as Arm dies... What will it look like?
|
|
jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
|
Post by jjhardy on May 17, 2018 22:42:04 GMT -5
Log in now, you will see
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
Member is Online
|
Post by mehtastic on May 18, 2018 7:07:27 GMT -5
It won't look like anything. The game has simply stagnated. It will not change in and of itself. What will change is the patience of the players. You will see the average number of players online every day and the unique weekly logins continue to slowly drop. Some of these players will come here to gripe about the Armageddon that used to be. Others will move on to other MUDs that actually appreciate their players. But many will just move on from MUDs entirely. You will see staff resolving fewer requests per week and approving fewer characters. Almost every character rejection is a newbie they just failed to trick into playing. Without new blood, and without people to fuck with, staff will start to drop off one by one. The more creative minds on staff might split off to make their own MUD, but it will look nothing like Armageddon. Either way, the revolving door of the staff body was apparent with the death of Nergal, when they rehired so many bad staff members as storytellers, and the door will come to a screeching halt soon when they find there's just no one left that's willing to become a staff member. Armageddon already has almost no respect in the overall MUD community, so promoting Armageddon is an uphill battle. They tanked their popularity and then desperately tried to promote themselves on Top Mud Sites with voting bots, only to get themselves removed from the ranking list. You will probably see them try to promote on forums, and see them shot down very quickly. See this post on mudconnect for an example: www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=81356.0 or check out r/MUD where some crazy player is busy spamming the subreddit with Arm posts. They're getting increasingly desperate and are starting to realize that Arm does not have much time left. You will see some consolidation going on as players continue to give up. I predict Morin's Village, Luir's, and Red Storm will be closed, probably in that order. You will probably see tribal clans close or somehow get merged into Allanak's sphere. The southern team will eventually be the main staff team, and Armageddon will experience a brief resurgence in activity as staff concentrate their attention on one area. It will drop off again as people realize that this is all they have left. Ultimately, Armageddon will die when Morgenes decides it should die. You see, Morgenes is the one who pays for Armageddon's server and domain. This is not secret information; it is easily visible on a whois check. Eventually he will get tired of spending his money on a project that he is not involved in, and stop doing it. He will probably try to pass it off to a trusted staff member who is still involved with the project, but if they're not interested in taking it then there will be a post on the GDB saying Armageddon is closing, and in a few days it will close.
|
|
OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
|
Post by OT on May 18, 2018 9:13:33 GMT -5
Armageddon probably has plenty of time left, but the question is what condition it'll be in during that time. The numbers have gone down over the years but have done so very slowly. The biggest change has been the near-total stagnation of staff storylines. Unique logins have only declined from an average of like 250 in 2010 to 200ish in 2018, so the numbers are relatively resilient. A much bigger problem is the way people play the game, because the lack of staff presence in-game has robbed people of their ambition and creativity. When you can have a character for many months and never see the signs of a meaningful metaplot or even localized story events that matter to you, it's easy to resign oneself to just playing with friends in some inaccessible place.
I don't think the game will shut down anytime soon. Numbers will continue to dwindle at a pace that matches the glacial movement of what passes for story in this game, and player habits will continue to become increasingly apathetic and reclusive. Like I mentioned recently in another thread, there was a time when people were out and about. The taverns were frequently packed, the streets were busy with passing players, and well-populated clans were common. That's because staff made sure there was something to see, so players put themselves in a position to see it. Take away the story and people will just sit behind doors or ride around the world killing things for the sake of it. Why be in a clan with restrictive schedules and rules if it doesn't get you involved in a story worth being involved in? Why go to the tavern if nothing worth talking about has happened in months?
While consolidation is certainly a possibility, I doubt any concentration of staff attention will happen. Look at Tuluk's closure: if anything, it led to a decline in staff efforts. Players rejoiced at the prospect of a lively and plot-filled Allanak, but as they realized that this wasn't happening, people resigned themselves to a game without story. I don't think there would be as much faith and resurgence a second time around. This crop of staff has already shown that they're just not interested in making the game's wheels turn.
Like, when was the last time something truly noteworthy happened in Zalanthas? If this game were to be written into a book, what event from the last five years could possibly serve as its focal point? I simply can't think of anything. Sure, there's gith running around attacking people now and then, but they play no real role. It's just some animations for Kurac, not something that affects the game in any meaningful way. Compare it to things like the rebellion and liberation of Tuluk, the dwarven uprising in Allanak, the Copper War or even the Dragonsthrall thing that was supposed to herald the shift to Arm2.0 but fizzled out. Nothing like this happens anymore.
In a game with like a dozen supposedly active staff members, the only thing they can manage to do that's even detectable by the broader playerbase is to load up some gith and attack some PCs once in a while. It's such a slow burn that people don't even care about it. Templars and GMH sponsored characters are fed some token clues about gith sorcerers so they can pretend to plan and strategize over that, but this is like eight characters in total. The rest of the game just doesn't have a reason to think about it, and they certainly don't put any roleplaying efforts toward it. It's just something vaguely happening off somewhere in a place where it doesn't affect most people.
Why not make it meaningful? I don't understand this half-assedness. Is it because staff is collectively so lazy that they design their plots to run on what looks like one or two hours of one storyteller's time per week? It's difficult to believe that so many staff members are all so averse to making an effort, yet that's exactly what it looks like. Why else would they choose to shrink the scale of their "big" events so much? Why not have the gith wage war on the world instead of many in-game years of small, pointless skirmishes? I'm not even sure when was the last HRPT that involved Allanak in any noteworthy way and actually changed anything.
The playerbase seems to have accepted this. If there has been no grand exodus of players in recent years, there probably won't be in the future, either. Armageddon is a very robust game and its decline is very slow. Those who play now are the ones who are willing to play under these conditions. When Morgenes gets tired of paying for the game, somebody else will just take over that duty. I expect Armageddon will still be around in ten years, though the peak numbers may have dwindled to 20-30ish by then. The game may eventually end up in such a sorry state that nobody cares to play it anymore, but MUDs are very resilient and I think it'll be kept running even if just as a relic.
In fact, if the game does die, I think it'll be when operating systems evolve to a point where something replaces the telnet protocol.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
Member is Online
|
Post by mehtastic on May 18, 2018 9:25:52 GMT -5
The last time Armageddon had a Producer that publicly held other staff to a work standard, he burned out in dramatic fashion, told everyone to fuck off, and disappeared forever. Say what you will about Nergal but at least he hated everyone equally. So you'll never see staff putting in more than an hour of week of actual work.
There are plenty of rumors about what staff do during staff time. None of it is very good for Arm. They play other MUDs like Haven and Arx. They watch people mudsex. They spoil plots to their friends and tip them off when something endangers their character. It's staff's fault that this is happening, btw: they dropped their standards for who should be staff, just to get some more bodies to fill their bureaucracy. But like I said, that time is coming to an end. There aren't a lot of people left who want to be staff. Eventually you'll see them recruiting staff from the mud community at large, people with no experience in Arm specifically, because that's how desperate they will get. It's either that or consolidate, to no real effect.
The playerbase that remains has accepted that Arm is a stagnant mess, not good for anything beyond spam battles, mudsex, and game-within-game bullshit like kruth cards and dice. The majority of RP is Bar RP, completely worthless and doesn't further the story at all.
|
|
faroukel
Displaced Tuluki
What's a story without a villain?
Posts: 201
|
Post by faroukel on May 18, 2018 11:27:46 GMT -5
Do MUDs really die? Or do they just dwindle down to a few loyal idlers, with a couple more occasional forum posters, and a few more half engaged, skim over Discord'ers?
Point is, MUDS don't seem to die. They just go on life support. ------------^-----------^------------^------------^
No one cares enough to pull poor bastards plug, or invest in fixing his condition. They'd just rather wring their hands, fret, and do nothing but watch the lifeless form.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
Member is Online
|
Post by mehtastic on May 18, 2018 12:15:30 GMT -5
Arm's body has a tattoo on its chest that says "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" and it's crossed out, so the doctors don't know what the fuck to do except spam memes in the Arm discord and hope that the other patients like the doctors.
|
|
|
Post by legendary on May 18, 2018 17:19:55 GMT -5
All it would take to turn the game around is the staff relaxing their grip on every little detail.
It's okay to say yes once in a while or to give players a chance to do something interesting and different. Other games do it all the time and they're flourishing, so why the need to control every minutiae of every player? At one time, the game could police itself by virtue of the natural in game order of things. If someone did something out of line, even if they got away with it for a while, people would deal with them eventually and in a way that didn't require OOC meddling. Now it's nothing but OOC meddling, from both staff and players.
Karma is a good example of the ever tightening grip. There was really no need to close karma requests, but they did it anyway. Now, it takes a new player all of a few minutes to realize they're at the end of the road before they've taken a stop, so they leave. Who would stick around to play a game that tells you from the start you have nothing to look forward to and are deadlocked into being disadvantaged compared to old players, who already have every leg up on you in terms of knowledge? It's ridiculous.
A system that decides in hard ranks terms what you can and cannot do in an RP environment should never, ever be completely closed off to anyone. Especially not to the new arrivals that you desperately need to stick around.
Of all the strange decisions they've made over the last several years, that probably stands out as the worst.
|
|
jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 156
|
Post by jenki on May 18, 2018 17:32:49 GMT -5
We can probably pronounce Arm dead when people stop talking about it, until then there will always be a spark keeping it alive.
|
|
ibusoe
Clueless newb
Posts: 176
|
Post by ibusoe on May 27, 2018 9:57:06 GMT -5
All it would take to turn the game around is the staff relaxing their grip on every little detail.
Yeah. To this, I'll add the ease with which karma can be stripped away. It takes something like 1.8 years or so to earn a point of karma, and it gets stripped away because of like an OOG reference or you PK the wrong guy. Why invest in a system where the rewards are so meager, and the punishments so severe?
|
|
dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
|
Post by dcdc on Jun 1, 2018 13:07:19 GMT -5
The death arm, will be a whimper.
No more or less, it true death is when it's no more than a memory while the former players and staff move on.
This forum as well will fall completely silent.
I think the most clever and willing of the RPI community need to also let it go.
I hold a hope, that the efforts of a few individuals (and a few I don't know about). Finally stop giving Arm any energy and the RPI genre itself is reborn after a couple of years with fresh ideas and modern code bases appearing. I hope everyone gets friendly competitive too. Everyone is working on one game in some degree while playing the others.
I dunno. I don't weep for Arm. It had and incredible run if you think about it, but don't we all need to move on? Maybe even give a bit of ourselves to save what we can of the RPI genre?
That is what I'm waiting for, a new and more excited roleplaying community. Hopefully a near death and a couple years recovery mends old wounds and cleans the bad blood.
I have nothing bad to say about Arm and it's staff anymore. They're hospice workers at this point. I hope they get to rest soon.
|
|
|
Post by lyse on Jun 1, 2018 15:36:05 GMT -5
It’s been dead for some time. We need to better define what death is in a game like a Mud. It’s more in an undead state where it enjoys periods of activity. Then it dies off and goes back to a dead like state.
I’m surprised so many of you are trying to ignore it was enjoying 60-70 players during peak just a couple of months ago, or at least pretending to ignore a fact like that. That’s not a dead game.
The interesting thing is what follows the burst of activity. Somehow every time they get a resurgence in numbers like that they manage to squander it through poor choices. I’m not talking about something like closing Tuluk, getting rid of Drovians or whatever the hell people are crying about these days. No that’s not it, those are symptoms of the problems. They manage to piss the players off that just came back. And they leave again and you’re back to the core.
I’m convinced the core has something to do with it being stuck in an undead state. The core are the people that cry for the days of the rebellion, the copper war, etc. Is it really that hard to write a compelling story? No, but that’s what they want. The core are those players that decided, whatever you’re trying to do it’s their job to actively oppose it, because the world needs a good Antagonist and they chant Murder, Corruption, Betrayal. Even when there is no non contrived reason for them to be doing so. But it gives them something to do...so shitting on your plot is ok. Except after a while....shitting on everybody’s plot makes people not want to do plots. Yeah...the core are their own worst enemy and they don’t even realize it. They keep the game afloat until the next burst.
The next burst will probably be when they implement the new classes. The code nerds will come back to poke around. Maybe they’ll bring some the wife or some friends and the numbers will go up. But what is rotten underneath always comes out and...the numbers drop off again.
Not dead or dying....undead.
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Jun 1, 2018 16:19:07 GMT -5
I’m surprised so many of you are trying to ignore it was enjoying 60-70 players during peak just a couple of months ago, or at least pretending to ignore a fact like that. It wasn't! There haven't been 60-70 peaks for a long time. Probably not since the temporary resurgence following Tuluk's closing. The numbers are truly horrific right now, though. They seemed to nosedive in the last couple of months. Jan/Feb/Mar had about 35 in the afternoon/evening and 40-50 during peak. Now it's like 20 in the day/evening, sometimes even less, and 30-40 peaks. Sometimes there'll be 15 people online at 7pm. I'm not sure what happened recently to cause this, because the decline has otherwise been slow and steady. Allanak as a playing sphere is stone fucking dead. I mean really. There's never anyone anywhere, nothing ever happens, it's just a corpse. Pretty sure it's been over a month since I saw a noble. The Gaj sits empty 99% of the time, even during peak hours. People will come out of their holes for a bit when there's arena games, but that's not something that actually matters. Its a contrived minigame that people pretend to care about just so there's something to post on the tavern board. People don't actually do anything or make themselves available for roleplay, so there's nothing to work with. Maybe the new classes will bring some back, but if there's still no story to behold and nothing to aspire for, they won't stay.
|
|
|
Post by legendary on Jun 1, 2018 17:21:54 GMT -5
There's no story because every measure of resource has been stripped from players.
The game has in many ways always been driven by sponsored roles and clan leaders, especially clan leaders that would rise from an entry level position. The nobles and Templars have nothing to work with anymore and clan leaders are stapled in place from a dwindling pool of staff pets, instead of being picked from the best of the worse that survived he last catastrophe. How many Byn Sergeants have come out of the ether, run the clan into the mud and died, only to be replaced by another? The AOD is even worse, and kept stagnant because the garbage, no effort players that inhabit it never die and the interesting ones willing to play cops and robbers end up never getting promoted, suicide or store.
Don't even get me started on little America aka the Garrison. Even Utterby would roll its eyes at what Luirs has turned into.
Players are permanently barred from every getting karma, the success rate of special applications has become abysmal and the shrinking remnants of players who had options from before are so bored they're down to relentless grinding on spiders. The game limps along, on a crutch of legacy and nothing else. How can a new player be expected to stick around? There isn't even much in the way of social play, as I learned when joining a row of aides/merchants/floozies in Reds. They're cut outs of actual characters, with three word emotes and endless nods and shakes.
There will never be interesting, dynamically evolving plots and stories when players are stifled in every possible way. I really believe that the old time staff have become so embittered with their players, they're actively sabotaging the game. There is too much evidence, too many complaints, too many diehard players hitting the bricks for them not to realize they're the problem. It isn't us exiles, it isn't the new players, it isn't the genre that's killing the game. It's them and their inability to adapt, or let go to make room for people who can.
It's no longer even possible to grab a group of friends and go shake things up, because staff won't tolerate player success. You can pick up a group of friends to go be raiders, run an indie crew or take over the Guild through assimilation, only to have it kicked apart by vindictive staff. You will never again see a long, grand plot run by players, like you did years ago. It won't be tolerated and that's pretty much a fact.
Disposable, forgettable, safe and unoffensive. That's your Armageddon experience in a nutshell.
|
|
|
Post by lyse on Jun 1, 2018 17:38:29 GMT -5
I’m surprised so many of you are trying to ignore it was enjoying 60-70 players during peak just a couple of months ago, or at least pretending to ignore a fact like that. It wasn't! There haven't been 60-70 peaks for a long time. Probably not since the temporary resurgence following Tuluk's closing. The numbers are truly horrific right now, though. They seemed to nosedive in the last couple of months. Jan/Feb/Mar had about 35 in the afternoon/evening and 40-50 during peak. Now it's like 20 in the day/evening, sometimes even less, and 30-40 peaks. Sometimes there'll be 15 people online at 7pm. I'm not sure what happened recently to cause this, because the decline has otherwise been slow and steady. Allanak as a playing sphere is stone fucking dead. I mean really. There's never anyone anywhere, nothing ever happens, it's just a corpse. Pretty sure it's been over a month since I saw a noble. The Gaj sits empty 99% of the time, even during peak hours. People will come out of their holes for a bit when there's arena games, but that's not something that actually matters. Its a contrived minigame that people pretend to care about just so there's something to post on the tavern board. People don't actually do anything or make themselves available for roleplay, so there's nothing to work with. Maybe the new classes will bring some back, but if there's still no story to behold and nothing to aspire for, they won't stay. No, there were times when there were like 70 players on. I've seen it so I'm not going to argue with you on that. I'm not aspie enough to have taken a screenshot when it was that high. But I also know it dropped off soon after that. So we can agree on that. I also agree with everything else you said and those were things I've been saying for YEARS. Sure there are people off somewhere playing house or plotting something in secret. That's standard of any online roleplaying game. What should be worrying is the why because as soon as the plots get out there will be people actively trying to ruin it...for no good reason besides "I'm the adversary. It is my duty to ruin shit." I've seen this mentality on the GDB many times. The reason it was that high then dropped off is what I was speculating on which was a combination of staff bungling and players behaving shittly. The culture of the game is fucked up to put it bluntly. Who's fault it is at this point is up in the air, but players need to shoulder some blame there too. Excuses like "I'm playing my character, this is all IC." and "Murder, Corruption, Betrayal" don't excuse this, because its a stupid tagline and it's actually what staff don't want you doing....because its fucking toxic to any game. As I said before, a normal person will just walk away from the game without a peep and find something else to do...easily. Bringing it up to staff does nothing and usually results in a stonewalling, so the only sane thing to do is walk away. So again, the real feedback that they desperately need, they don't get. The feedback that they don't need and is detrimental to the game is repeated over and over again. Two things I'm absolutely sure of as key factors are staff unfairness and shitty players. If the underlying problems of unfairness and shitty playerisms are never addressed and dealt with. This kind of cycle will always continue. Arm does a great job of alienating players and it comes from both players and staff. So yeah, a class update might cause another spike because shiny. When those players that come back realize not much else has changed....we're back to 20 players at peak. Which....if you do the math a high percentage of the people your playing with are staff. And again....that's where the fuckery starts. Plots get ruined, shit gets tweaked in secret, people know things they have no business knowing....people aren't stupid and catch on to that. When that happens it's...bye bye. When you think about it...the class update is a balancing that should have happened a long time ago. Rangers => everything else should have been addressed a long time ago, but it wasn't. All that should've happened is giving Warriors more utility and making the rouge classes more complete. Because of player culture though and everybody wanting to do everything by themselves instead of playing together....a change that is questionable is being forced. The issue of players playing together...still hasn't been addressed. Shiny only goes so far and when you smell whats underneath the shiny...mass exodus.
|
|