Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 20, 2018 16:47:17 GMT -5
Hey,
I feel like when I played Armageddon I had a lack of amazing dwarves to interact with. There were some good characters but nothing like the over the top comments that Shade or Gold got in RAT. Love to hear some dwarf tales.
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Post by legendary on Mar 20, 2018 22:21:14 GMT -5
The only one who stands out in semi-recent history is Murdle, who had a very colorful life and died in a very metal way. He had a wife who punched out her erdlu constantly, survived a kryl infestation after being abducted into one of their hives and engaged in all kinds of adventures all over the game world. He walked into the Sanc' and went to town on a Templar, even though the entire twink-tastic northern population was on hand to pack bonus him down. I never did get the why of it, but it was a very 300 way to go.
There was always a lot of talk about Kurac's history of dwarves, but they never stood out as being especially deep or interesting. They had a really impressive tolerance for sparring and grinding NPCs, but they never stood out for their interesting character or unique foci. It takes a little more than high skills and stats to make for an dwarf of interest, which is probably why there have been so very few of them and none in recent memory.
I interacted with one in Red Storm recently, but they read like a book of player compensation and didn't hold my interest for long. I don't even remember their name now, actually. They're what pass for a big deal in the game these days, I suppose.
Akasha the T'zai Byn dwarf was actually a lot of fun to hang around with, until she was killed in an especially brutal RPT by Tlaloc. That's going back a long while, though.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 21, 2018 11:57:27 GMT -5
I remember that Murdle thing, I think he attacked the High Templar outside the Sanctuary (NPC). I might have actually been there when he died, will have to check logs later tonight. The most famous dwarf during my stint was Meso and the super dwarf/breed duo in the north. I forget their name at the moment. They were a husband wife (ooc) duo and were like the unofficial mage hunters of the north. I think? I'd need to poke my logs.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 13:28:43 GMT -5
Krull was a fairly notorious, and not exactly liked by many Kuraci Regular.a mutant dwarf with tusks. Hand-trained by Bjergar, Armali, Ishtok, Pai, Rako, Ruke for over a RL year. Dwarf warrior with monstrous stats, exceptional strength/agility and high hp, managed to reach high journeyman pike with no hands ride. It got to the point he actually killed the two ankhegs that decimated that one byn group and half-giants from way back when, at once.
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Post by legendary on Mar 21, 2018 17:06:30 GMT -5
Yes, but that's about all that they're usually memorable for.
Kurac of recent years has been far, far worse for sparring and skill/stat obsessive players than the T'zai Byn ever was, at least in my opinion. What makes a dwarf interesting isn't their combat stats, it's the focus and the mindset. There have been a countless number of highly skilled and monstrously statted dwarves in the last five or ten years, but that doesn't make them memorable. Just like muls, dwarves have always drawn too many people for the wrong reasons.
Gold was engaging because he was a dwarf through and through, but in a way that enabled everyone around him to join in on a lot of what he had going on. Murdle was great because he had so many facets to his personality and always opted in for the big adventure and the hard confrontations, rather than spending his entire time in the sparring halls to max out. Shade was amazing because he was a character with no filters or concept of shame, so you could hang around with him no matter what kind of character you were and have a lot of fun.
I don't remember them fondly because they could two shot a mek, I remember them because of how the hours rolled past while interacting with them and never being bored.
Tusk dwarf, Ish, Bjern, Armali and especially Ruke, were all astoundingly boring to interact with and none of them were particularly good at the game, as far as combat savvy goes. They had a high tolerance for grinding the hours of their lives away and only going out in big groups to minimize risk.
Reliable and strong versus NPCs, but not very interesting to be around.
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Post by latrineswimmer on Mar 21, 2018 23:06:43 GMT -5
Krull was the worst, just an uber twink that kills people in the sparring ring while 2h clubs. Great as a sparring dummy though if you have enough parry or block to take the risk of him fucking 2h clubs. Was demoted so many times in Kurac, nobody liked the guy, he could absolutely decimate mali though.
Hilariously while playing Krull the player of krull kept posting stuff to GDB about strength and armor not being powerful enough.
Murdle was great. 100% props to whoever the player was. There was an awesome sewer stump after that. I have forgot the name but there is stuff about him on this gdb.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Mar 22, 2018 5:28:57 GMT -5
Hilariously while playing Krull the player of krull kept posting stuff to GDB about strength and armor not being powerful enough. Hah. Strength is so overpowered that it almost ends up being the main thing that determines your combat potential. Skill matters a lot but will plateau, so unless you take two characters with wildly different skill, they're likely to hit eachother a roughly similar number of times. But if one has above average strength and the other has exceptional, the latter will do at least twice as much damage. This also means that a considerably less skilled character with max strength will beat a better opponent with middling strength. If I hit you five times for 20 damage and you hit me twelve times for 8 damage, I've done more damage despite being way worse at fighting. Something's fishy with the damage calculations, too. Looking at the strength table in the code, 18 strength is supposed to give only +3 damage. We all know it's more like +10 or something. When a fresh human warrior with exceptional strength can routinely do grievous hits with a storebought weapon, the +3 is a lie. Or, more specifically, it probably counts the strength bonus before location multipliers instead of after, which would be more reasonable. The result is this broken situation where someone with middling strength will hit in the 1-15 range while someone with high strength does like 5-40 using the same weapon. And the margin is even wider with bludgeoning weapons. There's a reason twinks mostly roll dwarves and half-giants. There's a reason the game remembers so few powerful elven fighters. Strength is just such a gigantic factor in combat, even though agility technically counts toward many more checks. Max human agility gives a +5 bonus to combat checks that invoke agility, and max elf is +10. That's nothing compared to the general "double damage" modifier of max vs. medium strength. And then comes the fact that strength determines your ability to wear the best armor, carry spare weapons, etc. Someone with 'good' strength isn't going to be wearing full silt-horror shell and carrying three different weapon types for strategic use. This game is perpetually plagued by terrible dwarf and half-giant characters because the worst players are the ones who pine the most after extreme coded power, since being the strongest dude in the room is the only way a shit roleplayer gets to be relevant. Conversely, the whole elven race, which is supposed to be the second most numerous in the world, is woefully underplayed because almost nobody with an interest in combat can bring themselves to roll an elf. And this means the c-elf sphere is chronically deficient in agency, leaving them stuck in this situation. This is how one poorly conceived line of code can have a serious debilitating effect on the roleplaying environment for twenty years.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 7:57:13 GMT -5
Krull was the worst, just an uber twink that kills people in the sparring ring while 2h clubs. Great as a sparring dummy though if you have enough parry or block to take the risk of him fucking 2h clubs. Was demoted so many times in Kurac, nobody liked the guy, he could absolutely decimate mali though. Hilariously while playing Krull the player of krull kept posting stuff to GDB about strength and armor not being powerful enough. Murdle was great. 100% props to whoever the player was. There was an awesome sewer stump after that. I have forgot the name but there is stuff about him on this gdb. OH boy.....here we go again. Round two? Hilariously, I think I remember you bitching on the exact same thread where it was cleared you were putting words in my mouth on their forum, so there's that - I think you just have a personal vendetta against me man. Was your PC one of the TWO that were accidentally killed in his entire lifetime in the ring? I bet you were the latter PC who thought it was a wonderful idea to attack him while he was AFK, never having been given the go ahead. With regulars, muls and half-giants, he'd use a club sure. With a tough mercenary, sure. Everyone else he handicapped himself, and deep....deep down somewhere beyond all that OOC hate, you know it. You said it yourself, he decimated mali - so why would he go all out? Spars weren't one hit to the dome and sit down and learn nothing recruit. They were, *give them a thousand dodges and then punch them a few times or whack them one handed*. And you know it. I can name the deaths he's caused on one hand, my salty friend. A genuine mistake early in his career - the PC who attacked him while AFK - His bestfriend, a mul who was raging and he couldn't put down. Three. I'll give you a jumpstart, the post was about armor, lets quit the bullshitting (again) man. I really hate liars. You can actually find my thread about it, to this day - go have a look. (Where I also agreed strength is overpowered, or did your vendetta wipe that one from your memory too?) Get over yourself and move on. Yes, Krull was only close to a handful, liked by that handful. He was a dick, sometimes he didn't mean to. I played him that way because he was young as hell. He wasn't an adult, even by coded standards. He had just hit adulthood by the time of his death and was mellowing out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 8:01:10 GMT -5
Hilariously while playing Krull the player of krull kept posting stuff to GDB about strength and armor not being powerful enough. Hah. Strength is so overpowered that it almost ends up being the main thing that determines your combat potential. Skill matters a lot but will plateau, so unless you take two characters with wildly different skill, they're likely to hit eachother a roughly similar number of times. But if one has above average strength and the other has exceptional, the latter will do at least twice as much damage. This also means that a considerably less skilled character with max strength will beat a better opponent with middling strength. If I hit you five times for 20 damage and you hit me fifteen times for 8 damage, I've done more damage despite being way worse at fighting. - I agree. Dont mind the vindictive troll above ^ Strength is overpowered and its something that's been tested so many times, to deny its existence, would be like to deny white privilege (warning, triggers). A PC would have to hit absurd levels of coded strength to be able to not get splattered by a chargen half-giant because that bonus to hit is so huge.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 8:05:51 GMT -5
Yes, but that's about all that they're usually memorable for. Kurac of recent years has been far, far worse for sparring and skill/stat obsessive players than the T'zai Byn ever was, at least in my opinion. What makes a dwarf interesting isn't their combat stats, it's the focus and the mindset. There have been a countless number of highly skilled and monstrously statted dwarves in the last five or ten years, but that doesn't make them memorable. Just like muls, dwarves have always drawn too many people for the wrong reasons. Tusk dwarf, Ish, Bjern, Armali and especially Ruke, were all astoundingly boring to interact with and none of them were particularly good at the game, as far as combat savvy goes. They had a high tolerance for grinding the hours of their lives away and only going out in big groups to minimize risk. Reliable and strong versus NPCs, but not very interesting to be around. Let me ask you this, legendary. Were you in Kurac? How long during those names? Were you there for the player plots, or the in-house roleplay, or the RPTs? Tusk dwarf wasn't just all spar. He was literally tasked by his superior to train the lower ranking soldiers, emphasis on soldiers - because soldiers don't tavern sit, or mudsex all day in a tavern or apartment. He had focuses, focuses that he completed. Around the time of his death for his (new) focus he was forming a crew of 3 muls and 4 dwarves, and preparing to claim/build their own dwarven haven. He wanted to create his own tribe. He was a dwarf activist. There's layers you don't see from spying in a window. Mindsets you'll never unearth, focuses you'll never know. Characters with sides they don't show strangers in the apocalyptic wasteland. Really, it's all about who you actually played with and remember.
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Post by legendary on Mar 22, 2018 21:16:16 GMT -5
I don't really have a hard number because I tend to roll with a new account each and every time I play the game, but I think when I abandoned that one, it'd been about two or three months with the clan? Give or take.
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Post by sirra on Mar 23, 2018 15:31:51 GMT -5
Yes, but that's about all that they're usually memorable for. Kurac of recent years has been far, far worse for sparring and skill/stat obsessive players than the T'zai Byn ever was, at least in my opinion. What makes a dwarf interesting isn't their combat stats, it's the focus and the mindset. There have been a countless number of highly skilled and monstrously statted dwarves in the last five or ten years, but that doesn't make them memorable. Just like muls, dwarves have always drawn too many people for the wrong reasons. Gold was engaging because he was a dwarf through and through, but in a way that enabled everyone around him to join in on a lot of what he had going on. Murdle was great because he had so many facets to his personality and always opted in for the big adventure and the hard confrontations, rather than spending his entire time in the sparring halls to max out. Shade was amazing because he was a character with no filters or concept of shame, so you could hang around with him no matter what kind of character you were and have a lot of fun. I don't remember them fondly because they could two shot a mek, I remember them because of how the hours rolled past while interacting with them and never being bored. Tusk dwarf, Ish, Bjern, Armali and especially Ruke, were all astoundingly boring to interact with and none of them were particularly good at the game, as far as combat savvy goes. They had a high tolerance for grinding the hours of their lives away and only going out in big groups to minimize risk. Reliable and strong versus NPCs, but not very interesting to be around. I liked Ish, Bjergar, Armali, Ruke, etc a great deal, but you're right that it could be pretty fucking boring around them. It wasn't entirely their fault. It was a combination of 'longevitus', whereby an extremely long lived PC settles into a kind of cautious stasis, because they're experienced and intelligent enough to avoid obvious dangers, and complete and utter staff neglect. It took Ruke like two RL months to even get Nergal to load a single silt horror. I have never spent more game hours huddled in a dark sandstorm waiting for an event to kick off, that never kicked off, than I have in Nergal's Kurac. As for dwarves... Unlike some people, I loved twink dwarves. Give me a sociopathic, greedy, kill-crazy dwarf, and I'd know there was at least one guy in my unit who was both reliable, hard to kill and expendable. You never have to worry about taking them on missions, and they're the most likely to be around at 3 AM training on stilt lizards or some shady shit in the storeroom. Low maintenance, high production. It's only a shame that only a couple of them were ever kicking around at one time. I was always overly concerned with keeping people alive, and that could be very frustrating when you have someone adorable and fragile (like Mali) following you around. But a solid, dwarf twink is fire and forget. Not only can they keep themselves entertained and are super unlikely to die, but even if they do, it's that that big of a deal. But they are rare and precious. All you gotta do is spar with them, and they'll be loyal forever. If you try to micromanage or force them into boring shit, they'll murder you in the latrines. If I could have populated Salarr, Kurac and the Byn with only happy warriors like Krull and Abuzer I would have. There are two other kinds of dwarfs. The sullen, moody fuckers (most of X-D's PCs, Dream, Exile, Bjergar, etc) which are great, but they have a worrying tendency to get involved in seriously dangerous political shit which inevitably gets them and those around them killed. I've had two long-lived, branched warriors die, and the last thing they both saw was X-D's character fleeing the room and leaving me to get ass-fucked. A Krull or an Abuzer might gleefully loot your corpse afterwards, but they're stupid enough (in a good way) to stick with you and fight it out to the bloody end. The third kind of dwarf is the comic relief eunuch. And all they're good for is a mildly amusing, memorable roleplaying experience.
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Post by shakes on Mar 23, 2018 20:22:50 GMT -5
Disappointed, am I, to not find Butcher Brons on this list.
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anyone
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by anyone on Mar 23, 2018 22:19:54 GMT -5
I thought Butcher Brons was well played, from what I got to see.
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Post by shakes on Mar 24, 2018 12:52:48 GMT -5
I always saw dwarves as typical Tolkienesque dwarves, even in Armageddon or Dark Sun. A dwarf is a dwarf across pretty much all dwarves.
But what interested me about them was that, in Armageddon, they'd been stripped of much of what made them dwarves. Their lore, their tradition, their clannishness ... so what would you get if you had that loyalty, stubborn streak, and devotion to purpose in a CRIMINAL dwarf?
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