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Post by lechuck on Feb 4, 2018 6:12:56 GMT -5
According to this, stab and pierce are different offense subskills and can have different values. However, both stabbing and piercing weapons fall under the piercing weapons skill. How would this work with regards to raising piercing?
The quoted code suggests that if you used a stabbing weapon for a long time and then switched to a piercing weapon, you're operating off of a much lower offense score but the same weapon skill. This should make it a lot easier to raise piercing weapons. Other weapon classes do not have this benefit. If it works that way, it makes the piercing weapons skill a much better choice for anyone attempting to max a weapon skill. On the other hand it also presents players with a trap as someone who has trained up using a piercing weapon might unwittingly screw themselves over by switching to a stabbing weapon and using a much lower offense score when not deliberately trying to do so for skillgains. Thoughts?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 14:10:46 GMT -5
Its hard to say without looking at the code. However, what I would test first is:
base O skill + weapon pierce skill + vs pierce target skill + weapon mod = accuracy base O skill + weapon pierce skill + vs stab target skill on the same target type + weapon mod = accuracy
You wouldnt get an apples to apples comparison with regards to weapon mod, but taking the crappiest possible weapon of each type you should get close.
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Post by legendary on Feb 5, 2018 18:33:22 GMT -5
Technically, you could save yourself some time if you were to grind your piercing weapons by cycling through specific racial types until piercing weapons are at advanced, then change it up to stabbing and do it all over again until master. You would be identified and skill locked long before you ever pulled it off and that's assuming you spent the time to figure out when to switch from one racial flag type to the next to optimize the whole process.
The difference between being -1 or +10 against the various species flags is negligible and even if you get it to something astounding with piercing, you wouldn't notice the difference by changing to a -1 stabber until you're dealing with pcs or npcs on the extreme end of the threat scale. If you're going against the extreme end of the scale, you're going to get a lot better results from getting weapons and armor that avoided homogenization than grinding your life away to raise you +flag level.
It's also worth pointing out that there has likely been significant changes made to how combat skills work, since they've been doing both silent and announced changes for quite a while to combat grinding and other issues since that information was accurate.
Do your grinding in broader strokes and change it up to avoid staff pouncing on you, for lack of anything better to do with their time. The more you focus on optimizing it, the more likely you are to get caught and slapped with a silent skill lock.
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Post by sirra on Mar 6, 2018 13:48:53 GMT -5
I can't stress enough that legendary is correct about them constantly fucking with combat skill code - moreso than anything else - and NEVER saying dick about it.
THAT SAID.
There are only two scenarios where I've noticed a huge and meaningful difference from weapon vs creature type:
1) RANGERS. Rangers got huge starting bonuses vs critters and shit vs humanoids. This was more noticeable than the Assassins reverse bonus vs humanoids and nothing vs animals (warriors get a balanced boost). They also quickly twinked their Defense, since they didn't have Parry or Shield Use skills to interfere with Defense gains (hence why warriors can only really raise Defense by unarmed sparring).
This played a huge role into why rangers went from suck-tastic to some that could make mincemeat of warriors. I had a ranger who could demolish any warriors save those who reached high journeyman/lower advanced with branched weapons like pikes/razors. Though it didn't help that sparring pikes/razors/etc have vastly better stats than regular sparring weapons. It's mostly because your parry skill is augmented by your Weapon Skill, and not having 'pikes' significantly raises the percentage of hits that land on you. From like 1 out of 50 to 10 out of 50.
It's also why assassins tend to get fucked. Their Parry is lower even than Rangers to start with (and even 5 points makes a huge difference), they tend to get much less Defense boosts from hunting, tend to always go dual wield, and lack slashing/chopping entirely. So any sword or axe armed ranger or warrior will wreck them, as if they were using a pike.
As far as I know, all of the above is core to the combat system and hasn't ever meaningfully changed except in degree.
2) Classic mages before everyone was a spellsword, like nowadays. The best way to notice all of these values at work is to play a combat heavy ruk, krathi or viv.
Your offense can become pretty insane (since AGAIN, Armageddon combat is weighed SEVERELY against being able to miss your opponent. It's more about how hard you hit than whether you'll hit) when augmented with gickery, and you're often better served by defensive spells than parry or shield use.
Once a mage can handle stuff like gith and raptors without needing to use mana, they're pretty dangerous.
But again, far far more mages have died to desert elf archery than anything else. The real secret to winning combat in Armageddon was picking your ground. (I.E, rangers want to be able to fight mounted/charge where they can steamroll warriors, warriors want to fight in the sparring circle, and assassins want to fight while you're naked and mudsexing them in a locked room).
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anyone
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by anyone on Mar 15, 2018 15:22:05 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken whips are a subset skill of slashers. Just like stabbers are with piercers.
void gain_proficiency(CHAR_DATA * ch, int attacktype) { switch (attacktype) { case TYPE_SLASH: case TYPE_WHIP: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_SLASHING)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_SLASHING, 1); break; case TYPE_PIERCE: case TYPE_STAB: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_PIERCING)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_PIERCING, 1); break; case TYPE_CHOP: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_CHOPPING)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_CHOPPING, 1); break; case TYPE_BLUDGEON: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_BLUDGEONING)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_BLUDGEONING, 1); break; case TYPE_PIKE: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_PIKE)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_PIKE, 1); break; case TYPE_POLEARM: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_POLEARM)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_POLEARM, 1); break; case TYPE_TRIDENT: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_TRIDENT)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_TRIDENT, 1); break; case TYPE_KNIFE: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_KNIFE)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_KNIFE, 1); break; case TYPE_RAZOR: if (has_skill(ch, PROF_RAZOR)) gain_skill(ch, PROF_RAZOR, 1); break; default: break; } }
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