|
Post by sitbackandchillout on Oct 5, 2016 5:25:50 GMT -5
So.
I remember a long time ago people were talking about the [Shield use > Parry > Defence] skill-gain chain, saying that it works like an impermeable overlay, if memory serves.
Recently I seem to recall someone saying you definitely tick up Def *with* the parry skill.
Q1 - Has this been changed / were people incorrect in the past?
Q2 - Does this then imply changes/misinformation about the [Shield use > Defence] , [Shield use > Parry ...] skill-gain chains also?
Thoughts people?
|
|
pimpey
staff puppet account
Posts: 15
|
Post by pimpey on Oct 5, 2016 7:32:07 GMT -5
So. I remember a long time ago people were talking about the [Shield use > Parry > Defence] skill-gain chain, saying that it works like an impermeable overlay, if memory serves. Recently I seem to recall someone saying you definitely tick up Def *with* the parry skill. Q1 - Has this been changed / were people incorrect in the past? Q2 - Does this then imply changes/misinformation about the [Shield use > Defence] , [Shield use > Parry ...] skill-gain chains also? Thoughts people? order is defense > parry > shield use. so if you have super high defense, you will not bother parrying. will dodge most of the attacks ticking up defense with parry is not something you should be counting on, get those hits and to be on the safe side, get them when you are bare handed if you take a full hit (or bounce on armor), then depending on what you hold, parry or / and shield use is ticked if you have 1 weapon + 1 shield (doesn't matter ep / es order) both skills get ticked
|
|
|
Post by sitbackandchillout on Oct 5, 2016 13:34:57 GMT -5
Thank you for replying! ^.^
Am I right in understanding you to mean that if you tick shield or parry you *do not* tick Def?
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Oct 5, 2016 13:57:13 GMT -5
I don't think that's what he's saying. I know I've played some PCs who've made notable advancements in all three over the course of sparring without changing styles. It's about who you're sparring with, and how you're sparring. If you just walk in and wreck the whole room without a scratch, you will not be getting the fails you need to advance, which, after you've trained a while this is a definite possibility.
He's saying, in order to make SURE you get some code development, even the odds some, fight one-handed or just bare handed, or not at all, just let a roomload of Runners wail on you until they get some hits. Sooner or later, you'll be scaring the bejesus out of dwarfs when you step into the circle and put your weapons away. Your combat skills will seriously suffer if you're burdened, plus it's just cheesy, rips off the other players training their combat skills, so I'd reccomend against filling bags with rocks and wearing full plate. Light is honestly where you want to be for optimal combat ability with protection, but if you can get it even better than light, well, good job.
|
|
|
Post by sitbackandchillout on Oct 5, 2016 14:14:16 GMT -5
He's saying, in order to make SURE you get some code development, even the odds some, fight one-handed or just bare handed, or not at all, just let a roomload of Runners wail on you until they get some hits. Sooner or later, you'll be scaring the bejesus out of dwarfs when you step into the circle and put your weapons away. Your combat skills will seriously suffer if you're burdened, plus it's just cheesy, rips off the other players training their combat skills, so I'd reccomend against filling bags with rocks and wearing full plate. Light is honestly where you want to be for optimal combat ability with protection, but if you can get it even better than light, well, good job. Woah, lost me a little bit there... So, you have a chance of ticking each of Def, Parry and Shield use in a situation where you are training with a shield and a weapon drawn. Just a small chance of ticking your Def. Question : Why does this chance reduce for Def vs Parry Shield use? You also imply that training with only one hand reduces parry tick chance. Am I understanding you correctly? Also, you say something about not recommending weighing yourself down for skill gains. I'm not clear on why. You also say something about cheating your fellow MUDers out of combat skill gains? The idea of it ripping them off is silly right? You're trying to get the level closer to even by this method, not swing combat insanely in their favour. You would only do this if the skill balance is in their favour, no? Following this idea, surely training no handed does the same cheating of which you speak? Finally, thank you for sharing. Always appreciate your input on things, top bloke
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Oct 5, 2016 14:39:27 GMT -5
Well, ok,, so let me address a few things:
Q: you have a chance of ticking each of Def, Parry and Shield use in a situation where you are training with a shield and a weapon drawn. Just a small chance of ticking your Def. Question : Why does this chance reduce for Def vs Parry Shield use?
A: Because with shield use you will be hit a lot less. For a def fail you need to be hit, or a bounce off of your armor, as a previous poster has said. If you are still getting hit, then you're gravy, but that will change one day. Also, shield use modifies your def somehow I'm not real clear on, making it HARDER to dodge blows, which, means your sparring buddies aren't getting their offense/weapon/style gains. Good for you if you just want the coded benefits, bad for you when you need these same blokes to give the beatdown quickly to some nasty thing and they can't quite pull it off, so, bad for long-term survival.
Q: You also imply that training with only one hand reduces parrry tick chance. Am I understanding you correctly?
A: I believe you are. Whether you use your main or offhand will further modify defensive abilities, as well as what skill is checked for hit. Main hand: weapon skill, offhand: two weapon skill. I can't give you the specifics but you are welcome to test it exhaustively if you'd like. If I'm wrong, apologies.
Q: Also, you say something about not recommending weighing yourself down for skill gains. I'm not clear on why.
A: Because despite how some may play the game, the theme is not dragon ball z. Staff actively discourages this manner of twinkish behavior, and will slap you if they catch you. It doesn't help your buddies get their sparring gains either, which I will elaborate on being a team player and having some common fucking courtesy is a very potent survival strategy later.
Q: You also say something about cheating your fellow MUDers out of combat skill gains? The idea of it ripping them off is silly right? You're trying to get the level closer to even by this method, not swing combat insanely in their favour. You would only do this if the skill balance is in their favour, no? Following this idea, surely training no handed does the same cheating of which you speak?
A: If you want to max out their gains, what you will do is look into nosave combat, as well as use those opportunities to practice other combat skills you may have neglected in order to avoid anyone getting WTFmurdered in the sparring ring, whether you or someone else. You will make flagrant use of disengage to practice those nigh-useless, though situational parlor tricks. Bash and kick do not work on mounted opponents, or anything bigger than you or armored wildlife really. I'd say that's a better use of everyone's time than one big fuck-all DBZ training montage.
If you are weighed down too much, you will not dodge. If you do not dodge, your opponent will not get skill fails.Period. Basically all you do is fluff their sparring-ring ego which really doesn't accomplish much other than make then end up dead gong on roofsnake adventures on their off-day thinking they're better than they actully are.
I'd say, master shield use right quick, master two handed immediately afterwards, this style will give you the best defense possible in the sparring ring for your partner's skill gains, this is what you will be using most times. The two weapon style is nowhere near as potent as two handed, but is situational, and against something you never miss, you'd be better off with two weapon in a good number of cases. You will still see more crits and ass-rippage from two-handed however.
In the field, you will be using shield use, unless yoou picked a guild/subguild combo that caps you out dirt low, at which point, sucks to be you.
As far as not being a total chode to everyone and actually considering the gains of others, that benefit is multi-folded. The people training with you will get better far more quickly, leading to killing things faster in the field, leading to potential clusterfucks getting absolutely bulldozed out of your path. Their characters may pitch a fit about getting waffle-stomped without hardly scratching you again and again, but the player on the other end will be like, yo, this dude knows what's up. If I ever want to branch advanced weapons, it's in my best interests to keep them alive. This will net you IC friends and admirers, which will give you more leverage when things inevitably go tits up. You will have none of these things if you're the boring, rough-circle rock-toting stump.
|
|
|
Post by sitbackandchillout on Oct 5, 2016 15:03:24 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the intense reply ^.^
Definitely cleared up everything I asked about and more!
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Oct 5, 2016 15:13:17 GMT -5
LOL, sorry. If you'd care to look into game theory, experiments with the reiterated Prisoner's Dilemma are quite telling. The most successful AIs are the ones that do a little dance to identify whether the other AI or person is cool, and, will work collaboratively... heaven help you if you piss one off though. It sort of explains the evolution of altruism in social creatures like humans, dogs, wolves, even rats. Consistently grabbing your own and leaving nothing for anyone else leaves them unable to value you much, and indeed, makes you a liability the next time a food or resource is located. Being thinking, arguably rational creatures, capable of plotting around long-term consequences, anticipating failure, and admitting mistakes, deferring to someone else and being honest about strengths and weaknesses, can build up a well-oiled machine much stronger than the sum of its individual parts.
One thing I realized long ago is, a leader needn't always be correct. The leader is simply there as a placeholder to keep someone worse out of the job. A real leader will recognize that it's not about "I", but "we". Even a total dumbfuck, who can accept this and be honest with themselves, can build a successful team. Some will appeal to flawed preconceived notions of an image of infallibility... Sam Walton would likely bitchslap these people, had he not been such a nice person. He said it's crucial for leaders to be willing to make mistakes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 19:39:46 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the intense reply ^.^ Definitely cleared up everything I asked about and more! I would highly suggest you also do some independent research. Most of what is shared comes from good sources, or fourth hand from staff members. However, if you want to take your place as an embittered vet, you need to be able to post a damning shadowboard post or teach your newb friends all the dark secrets. Or, well... be able to pay the help forward.
|
|
pimpey
staff puppet account
Posts: 15
|
Post by pimpey on Oct 6, 2016 1:03:25 GMT -5
I don't think that's what he's saying. I know I've played some PCs who've made notable advancements in all three over the course of sparring without changing styles. It's about who you're sparring with, and how you're sparring. If you just walk in and wreck the whole room without a scratch, you will not be getting the fails you need to advance, which, after you've trained a while this is a definite possibility. He's saying, in order to make SURE you get some code development, even the odds some, fight one-handed or just bare handed, or not at all, just let a roomload of Runners wail on you until they get some hits. Sooner or later, you'll be scaring the bejesus out of dwarfs when you step into the circle and put your weapons away. Your combat skills will seriously suffer if you're burdened, plus it's just cheesy, rips off the other players training their combat skills, so I'd reccomend against filling bags with rocks and wearing full plate. Light is honestly where you want to be for optimal combat ability with protection, but if you can get it even better than light, well, good job. yes. there are knowns, and unknowns. to be on the safe side, i keep training them balanced. therefore, i miss my days in byn, where working out all aspects of defense is easy and most importantly they are all vs. humanoids
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Oct 23, 2016 12:51:32 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the intense reply ^.^ Definitely cleared up everything I asked about and more! I would highly suggest you also do some independent research. Most of what is shared comes from good sources, or fourth hand from staff members. However, if you want to take your place as an embittered vet, you need to be able to post a damning shadowboard post or teach your newb friends all the dark secrets. Or, well... be able to pay the help forward. What a lot of people don't realize is well is that a lot of us have knowledge based on the codebase as it was in a certain state about ten years ago. But they routinely fuck with things ALLL the time and NEVER post about it. They change things and then even forget they've changed things. That's why so few staff even have a fucking clue about basic mechanics. And it's not like Morgenes was a great coder either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:22:35 GMT -5
Ive definately seen an example of one of my characters had insane def. It could well have just been a combination of tiny factors that buffed base def to heights I wish Icould achieve again but I didnt really box much with that PC, I probably should have though
|
|
|
Post by radioactivejesus on Nov 1, 2016 19:27:34 GMT -5
despite how some may play the game, the theme is not dragon ball z. It's not? Well, there's 17 days playtime down the drain.
|
|