Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 1:54:23 GMT -5
My guess is the meteor was an IC lead in to explain the elementalist guild/sub guild changes. I have no idea what the metor is or what became of it but based on the time, I'm going out on a limb saying the two are related.
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punished ppurg
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Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Jan 17, 2017 2:13:00 GMT -5
My guess is the meteor was an IC lead in to explain the elementalist guild/sub guild changes. I have no idea what the metor is or what became of it but based on the time, I'm going out on a limb saying the two are related. They've repeatedly been inconsistent and negligent as hell with their in-game lore and the signals they send OOCly. You remember when Tuluk was closing, and we had Nyr repeatedly saying "No this won't affect anything ICly, it will be an OOC change"? And then we got the zombie parasites to explain it. Same thing here, you can dig up posts on the GDB from staff members saying that the elementalist change is an OOC change and there's nothing different about the IC world to explain it. They clearly don't know what they are collectively doing.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jan 17, 2017 5:12:33 GMT -5
My guess is the meteor was an IC lead in to explain the elementalist guild/sub guild changes. I have no idea what the metor is or what became of it but based on the time, I'm going out on a limb saying the two are related. They've repeatedly been inconsistent and negligent as hell with their in-game lore and the signals they send OOCly. You remember when Tuluk was closing, and we had Nyr repeatedly saying "No this won't affect anything ICly, it will be an OOC change"? And then we got the zombie parasites to explain it. Same thing here, you can dig up posts on the GDB from staff members saying that the elementalist change is an OOC change and there's nothing different about the IC world to explain it. They clearly don't know what they are collectively doing. and lets not even get into adamant staffside denials abt arm2 getting scrapped less than 2 weeks before arm2 got... scrapped their history only confirms again and again that they are perfectly fine lying to ur face until they are forced not to. everything else they do/have done is just window dressing on a fact theyll never admit to until it hurts them more to deny it
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 17, 2017 17:09:22 GMT -5
Here's what probably happened.
Some staffer came up with a "cool" storyline idea involving the meteor. Other staffers chimed in and did stuff that was a result of the meteor. Very minor public changes were made in said staffers' clans to reflect this new thread of massive background events. All of it was kept SUPER SECRET MI6 CIA-LEVEL CLASSIFIED so that players could only ever stumble on the edges of it, to forever wonder what the story was behind X.
Then the players ignored the subtle influences of the HOLY FUCK AWESOME SECRET LORE, chalking it up to either staffers fucking with them out of boredom or the typical "value adding" shitty executives do to look like they're needed. No one will ever know the ULTIMATE GREATNESS METEOR LORE unless they join the staff or there's another leak, because it will never fucking matter. This inevitably demoralized the unpaid volunteer who wrote it, embittering them further against the ungrateful bastards of the playerbase.
If you don't believe that, download the wiki.
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Post by jcarter on Jan 17, 2017 17:58:25 GMT -5
i haven't played arm in a very long time so things may have greatly changed from my view --
players always were 'taught' to not stick their nose into anything neat or investigate the unusual through game mechanics and documentation. cool secret stuff like magick was forbidden and you were supposed to be afraid of it. many cool or unusual things, such as ruins, often had no incentive to actually go there and be explored. you weren't going to find anything useful, you had to make a risky trip, and chances are there's either a secret mage hideout who wants to kill you for finding them or dangerous critters. not to mention the various dangers in the wild such as cliffs, random holes, deathtrap rooms, etc.
also, the last thing you ever should have wanted was a staff interaction. the majority of staff interactions went one of two ways -- neutral, e.g. just an animated NPC for a conversation, or bad, such as a critter getting animated to chase you. Very rarely would anything positive happen.
given that players put a huge amount of effort into their characters, it's not surprising that players are generally risk averse. getting a character integrated into the game socially takes a good amount of time, whether it's tavern sitting or other clan-related activities. getting them skilled up also takes a huge investment in time. the fact that a character at 10 days played time is seen as being middle of the road is a testament to this.
so it's not really surprising that players don't take the bait for plots. the prevailing attitude of Arm seems to be just enjoy the ride, but the fact is the ride is mostly unfun. it's like telling a gambler at a casino that he should be happy he had the privilege of losing the money he just spent two weeks earning on a bad bet.
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Post by desertman on Jan 17, 2017 18:37:17 GMT -5
I have no idea what happened with the meteor and even if I did, I would say find out IC.
With that being said I will chime in on the concept of there seemingly never being any positive outcome to staff animations in the game.
I have had SO MANY staff animations over the years. More than I can remember. In the dozens, easily. The number I can remember that resulted in a positive outcome for my character in some way beyond a neutral conversation?
One.
Talia once animated a Guild leader to break into my place and leave my PC children a bowl of candy and my character Markus a set of neat but not remarkable throwing knives as a reward for extorting The Byn on behalf of the The Guild for a lot of money.
Every other animation I can recall ever having was done specifically to force me to do something I didn't want to do, take something away from me, or block my advancement in some way. EVERY SINGLE ONE. (Or attack me with monsters, which doesn't bother me and is usually enjoyable. I'm talking about NPC animations as in other humans/NPC leaders/etc...)
(They also never opposed me with commoner NPC's. It was ALWAYS with untouchable level God-avatar NPC's, so it wasn't even a possibility for me to realistically fight it. Doing so would have resulted in failure every time. Military NPC officers, Red Robed Templars, etc...etc...Basically, they went Staff vs Player on me IC, instead of Player vs World.)
It had gotten to/has gotten to the point that I would just rather have no animations.
I had started to wonder and genuinely want to ask if there is an unspoken or perhaps even spoken rule that staffers aren't allowed to animate NPC's to help characters to prevent cries of favoritism/bias.
Either way, animations in my vast experience with them almost always result in negative outcomes and losses/unfavorable negotiations against your PC. The BEST outcome you can hope for is a neutral meaningless one, because at least you aren't getting fucked over in some way, yet again.
(I have had some animations over the years to promote my PC in a clan, or something similar to that. I do not count these outcomes though. The reason is that they are standard. They are the product of following a standard path a thousand PC's before you have followed. They aren't special or unusual in any way and in reality mean about as much as someone just sending you a request via the request tool letting you know you have had your coded rank changed. I consider these "neutral" outcomes. Everyday uneventful business through the form of an animation.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 19:57:29 GMT -5
I had started to wonder and genuinely want to ask if there is an unspoken or perhaps even spoken rule that staffers aren't allowed to animate NPC's to help characters to prevent cries of favoritism/bias. I believe there is a general negative vibe that pervades the staff's atmosphere. Seeing and discussing how players are doing things they disapprove of and letting it get to them to the point they act to curtail the behavior. The influence of the negative seems to do more to motivate staff to animate and interact with players than other motivators to animate and interact with players. I believe it's more of a perception issue with staff, not seeing all the good things players do, or a lack of interest in it, but they do care about players doing things that make them feel like they are disrespecting the game they are the stewards of. I'm not saying all staff are this way, but it seems to be the general vibe I get. Generally speaking, it seems more effective to point the right way and lead by example than to point out all the ways that are wrong. I think players are happy to learn by example especially when staff show (not tell) them what they want.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 20:23:56 GMT -5
I have no idea what happened with the meteor and even if I did, I would say find out IC. With that being said I will chime in on the concept of there seemingly never being any positive outcome to staff animations in the game. I have had SO MANY staff animations over the years. More than I can remember. In the dozens, easily. The number I can remember that resulted in a positive outcome for my character in some way beyond a neutral conversation? One. Talia once animated a Guild leader to break into my place and leave my PC children a bowl of candy and my character Markus a set of neat but not remarkable throwing knives as a reward for extorting The Byn on behalf of the The Guild for a lot of money. Every other animation I can recall ever having was done specifically to force me to do something I didn't want to do, take something away from me, or block my advancement in some way. EVERY SINGLE ONE. (Or attack me with monsters, which doesn't bother me and is usually enjoyable. I'm talking about NPC animations as in other humans/NPC leaders/etc...) (They also never opposed me with commoner NPC's. It was ALWAYS with untouchable level God-avatar NPC's, so it wasn't even a possibility for me to realistically fight it. Doing so would have resulted in failure every time. Military NPC officers, Red Robed Templars, etc...etc...Basically, they went Staff vs Player on me IC, instead of Player vs World.) It had gotten to/has gotten to the point that I would just rather have no animations. I had started to wonder and genuinely want to ask if there is an unspoken or perhaps even spoken rule that staffers aren't allowed to animate NPC's to help characters to prevent cries of favoritism/bias. Either way, animations in my vast experience with them almost always result in negative outcomes and losses/unfavorable negotiations against your PC. The BEST outcome you can hope for is a neutral meaningless one, because at least you aren't getting fucked over in some way, yet again. (I have had some animations over the years to promote my PC in a clan, or something similar to that. I do not count these outcomes though. The reason is that they are standard. They are the product of following a standard path a thousand PC's before you have followed. They aren't special or unusual in any way and in reality mean about as much as someone just sending you a request via the request tool letting you know you have had your coded rank changed. I consider these "neutral" outcomes. Everyday uneventful business through the form of an animation.) Unfortunately, agreed. I can think of two emotes that didnt end in summary pc execution. I can think of at least eight that did, and one of them was pretty recent. Rpts are one of the things I adore about Arm, but I have long since had the realization that you only go on rpts when you are ready for a new pc. I am confident the stories others have are worse than mine, but I am pretty sure I still have the logs for some of my worst. The 650+ hp ankheg comes to mind. Sometimes I think that storytellers confuse low fantasy and gritty with a "crapsack" world. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld Sometimes I think that some of the imms are primarily social, political or mudsexxers as players, and have no freakin clue how the Arm combat system works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 1:32:16 GMT -5
It is hard for a player to know when staff is approving of their character. You don't get more animations for being good, you get more for being bad. You don't get karma for being good, you have to ask for it. But you lose karma for being bad.
Rath, when speaking about this meteor, said he wished players would have went IC about the magick changes. Well I'm sure players didn't ICly want to say, "Hey remember how all mages used to be trashcan's with spells? Now they're regular people with weaker spells," because they would expect to get docked karma. Arm's staff seems to be wanting that assumption to change but they aren't doing anything to try to change that assumption.
Doesn't this game have like 10 storyteller's right now? Why does it feel like no stories are being told? Why does it take several days to over a week to get character reports responded resolved only to get like 1 line of a response. This game has 40ish peak players, what else is there to do but respond to the handful of reports and go make the world alive and fun?
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jan 18, 2017 3:26:50 GMT -5
It is hard for a player to know when staff is approving of their character. You don't get more animations for being good, you get more for being bad. You don't get karma for being good, you have to ask for it. But you lose karma for being bad. Rath, when speaking about this meteor, said he wished players would have went IC about the magick changes. Well I'm sure players didn't ICly want to say, "Hey remember how all mages used to be trashcan's with spells? Now they're regular people with weaker spells," because they would expect to get docked karma. and they should expect a karma dock, because only an extremely small percentage of the world (much less the pc population) would be positioned to notice, much less call out, such a difference - much less rule out all the other zalanthan potentials ud only conclude that shit if u stupidly conflated the pc population of mages with the ig world pop which is vastly larger on all fronts - an even bigger sign that their approach to the world is flawed and dismissive of the gameworld beyond the pc pop lol the same type of player who walks their char into bustling taverns and beelines to the one other random pc there to comment on how 'empty' the tavern is
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 18, 2017 9:04:28 GMT -5
The same kind of character that immediately spits on my elf as if they are the only goddamn elf in the tavern and completely ignores the virtual world.
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Post by desertman on Jan 18, 2017 9:11:46 GMT -5
Eh, that's not exactly the same.
There are realism parameters to keep in mind, but you also have to keep in mind playability parameters.
The same reason it makes sense for a character to pick your character out of a crowded tavern is the same reason anyone interacts with anyone in the game at all.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in Allanak alone.
By your logic, EVERYONE should spend all of their time ignoring EVERYONE in-lieu of interacting with the literally hundreds of thousands of other people swarming the streets constantly.
Soldiers should roleplay constantly tracking down and arresting VNPC's instead of PC criminals. Why? Because it makes IC sense. There are thousands upon thousands of VNPC criminals for them to go after regularly. So why are they picking on just your PC criminal?
Well, the answer is, playability.
If we didn't give PCs special considerations beyond those we give the virtual world, nobody would ever do anything for being such hardcore "good RPers".
Everyone would just spend every second of their playtime interacting with the always present and always bustling virtual world.
But, that wouldn't be a very fun game either.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 18, 2017 13:02:43 GMT -5
Well, this is a good point, I will think on it some. It just strikes me as some people say, "I'm not trying to be a dick, IC is IC.", yet the evidence would seem to indicate otherwise.
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Post by desertman on Jan 18, 2017 14:13:14 GMT -5
Some characters absolutely try to be dicks IC. No argument there.
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Post by gloryhound on Jan 18, 2017 14:27:26 GMT -5
many cool or unusual things, such as ruins, often had no incentive to actually go there and be explored. you weren't going to find anything useful This was always especially disappointing to me. You could spend a lifetime searching the wastes and never, ever find a real treasure. No jars holding long-lost spells on scrolls, no elaborate metal weapons or armor, no great jewel or lump of metal, no tome explaining some mystery of the past, no macabre device in some remote nook of a cavern that lets you scry into peoples' dreams, no amazing plant you could bring back and display... nothing. The wasteland is truly a wasteland. Steinal is forever buried. What point is there to going outside a city, except to greb or raid grebbers?
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