jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 7, 2016 11:09:53 GMT -5
The four J's must post in tandem with one another, so now it's my turn.
Really fun log to read and not the sort of thing that ever happens in present day Arm. Was the player of the borsail in question a nimrod, or was he simply collateral damage in some ongoing war? Sounds like there might be some intrigue behind it, whatever the case. Thanks for sharing.
It'll be sad to see you go, newtwink. I suppose you gave it the old college try one last time and just couldn't tolerate it any longer. Your exit post resonates with me a great deal because I've maintained all this while, staff don't seem to actually DO anything. Not as far as I can tell. I'd be delighted if someone showed up and explained all the long, detailed responsibilities a clan imm has, but the last several clans I've been in the staff running them were complete non entities to me. Which would be fine if you're an RGS who doesn't know any better and thinks that's how things have always been. But I miss the days when NPCs made appearances and wove their stories and plots into the game.
Here's what I think has happened. San and Hal and Bhag were creative but they were also wildly abusive too. Players bitched and finally got what they wanted (see my earlier post about players getting what they want and the actual downsides to this). So now staff no longer animate high profile npcs. Any time there was a Halaster run hrpt you could count on your pc dying and I think that didn't sit with with a lot of players. As it shouldn't. But as a solution the staff made it the polar opposite. Now no one dies. Zombies attack the city and soldiers go on dungeon crawls for ankhegs and spiders but everyone returns to tell of it. It's the equivalent of fighting an actual dragon in AD&D, the monster of all monsters, and returning without so much as scratch. Players also, understandably, didn't like npcs constantly up in their business, conveniently knowing things they couldn't possibly know, or affecting players (sometimes killing them) in unrealistic ways. So the solution was no more animations. None. And that's why you now have the following.
RRR I'm not surprised your experience was somewhat opposite. You felt the staff presence but it was just constant monitoring and nitpicking. This was also bitched about by the players and has been resolved by simply going the opposite end of the spectrum: a complete hands off approach.
Bit by bit, players got what they were demanding. But in the end they really didn't. And now the game is a lesser version of it was.
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Post by RogueRougeRanger on Apr 7, 2016 11:28:30 GMT -5
The four J's must post in tandem with one another, so now it's my turn. Really fun log to read and not the sort of thing that ever happens in present day Arm. Was the player of the borsail in question a nimrod, or was he simply collateral damage in some ongoing war? Sounds like there might be some intrigue behind it, whatever the case. Thanks for sharing. It'll be sad to see you go, newtwink. I suppose you gave it the old college try one last time and just couldn't tolerate it any longer. Your exit post resonates with me a great deal because I've maintained all this while, staff don't seem to actually DO anything. Not as far as I can tell. I'd be delighted if someone showed up and explained all the long, detailed responsibilities a clan imm has, but the last several clans I've been in the staff running them were complete non entities to me. Which would be fine if you're an RGS who doesn't know any better and thinks that's how things have always been. But I miss the days when NPCs made appearances and wove their stories and plots into the game. Here's what I think has happened. San and Hal and Bhag were creative but they were also wildly abusive too. Players bitched and finally got what they wanted (see my earlier post about players getting what they want and the actual downsides to this). So now staff no longer animate high profile npcs. Any time there was a Halaster run hrpt you could count on your pc dying and I think that didn't sit with with a lot of players. As it shouldn't. But as a solution the staff made it the polar opposite. Now no one dies. Zombies attack the city and soldiers go on dungeon crawls for ankhegs and spiders but everyone returns to tell of it. It's the equivalent of fighting an actual dragon in AD&D, the monster of all monsters, and returning without so much as scratch. Players also, understandably, didn't like npcs constantly up in their business, conveniently knowing things they couldn't possibly know, or affecting players (sometimes killing them) in unrealistic ways. So the solution was no more animations. None. And that's why you now have the following. RRR I'm not surprised your experience was somewhat opposite. You felt the staff presence but it was just constant monitoring and nitpicking. This was also bitched about by the players and has been resolved by simply going the opposite end of the spectrum: a complete hands off approach. Bit by bit, players got what they were demanding. But in the end they really didn't. And now the game is a lesser version of it was.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say. But a complete hands off approach would mean that the imms wouldn't squelch player efforts, and that's what happened all the time, and seems to happen even now. I'd much prefer a truly hands off approach where the imms trusted the players enough to let them play without red tape and endless OOC interference.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Apr 7, 2016 11:32:35 GMT -5
Really fun log to read and not the sort of thing that ever happens in present day Arm. Was the player of the borsail in question a nimrod, or was he simply collateral damage in some ongoing war? Sounds like there might be some intrigue behind it, whatever the case. Thanks for sharing. Valorisk was an arrogant asshole, went around threatening everybody in existence, and killed a couple handfuls of PCs. I'm thinking that's basically the entire plot.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 7, 2016 11:37:42 GMT -5
Really fun log to read and not the sort of thing that ever happens in present day Arm. Was the player of the borsail in question a nimrod, or was he simply collateral damage in some ongoing war? Sounds like there might be some intrigue behind it, whatever the case. Thanks for sharing. Valorisk was an arrogant asshole, went around threatening everybody in existence, and killed a couple handfuls of PCs. I'm thinking that's basically the entire plot. It almost sounds like he was playing truly borsail but your post makes me suspect you mean it more of an ooc uncool sense. Any further details worth sharing?
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Apr 7, 2016 11:39:20 GMT -5
Didn't mean it in an OOC sense. I was surprised by how Borsail the PC was.
there was also something about him eating people
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 7, 2016 11:42:39 GMT -5
RRR when I say hands off I mean doing actually nothing at all. As opposed to hands off as in letting players try and run the show without constant ooc intervening and meddling.
Of all the things we bitch about here on this board the central theme to all of it is imms failing to empower the players. Do that and jcarter.org doesn't even serve a purpose any longer.
I'd add that empowering players does not mean coddling and hand holding and pearl style favoritism that let's people rise to power with zero effort and zero risk. Make things difficult for people, throw a few curve balls their way, but make it possible. And show it's possible with repeat success stories. Add player successes to the history page, give players a few rare hook ups from time to time, make the new game culture be a culture of yes, a culture of anythings possible. It's really honestly the only thing this game needs.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,028
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Post by jkarr on Apr 7, 2016 11:44:34 GMT -5
RRR when I say hands off I mean doing actually nothing at all. yeah id still prefer that
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Post by themountaingoat on Apr 7, 2016 15:30:50 GMT -5
Godspeed. Fun character to play with, however briefly we interacted.
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slink
staff puppet account
Posts: 7
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Post by slink on Apr 7, 2016 18:33:31 GMT -5
I just want to comment on some of the occurrences mentioned.
I'll preface this by saying that I'm not staff but I do have a good relationship with them. Kudos to Newtwink on the FLAWLESS VICTORY.
I'm going go out on a limb and suggest that the general forum has it backwards. It's players that stagnate the game, not staff. And I'll tell you why I think that.
The current social order of Allanak is dominated by a handful of players, nobles and templars. And I would describe the current crop as less than satisfactory. I've been watching from the sidelines and these guys are some of the most horrendous white knights that I have ever encountered in armageddon. I thought Quoriya's Tuluk was bad. But Allanak at the moment takes the cake.
And I hate to say this, but I find Timotheo to be the prime offender here. Along with the rent-a-templars he loves to swoop in and kill anyone with half a plot for no better reason than to overreact to conflict in gameworld. He does it with assassins, backroom killings and mages. Don't get me wrong, he's supr gud @ rp. But the same could be said for Quoriya or Gin and Quick.
And in my personal opinion this is what happened to Valorisk. He tried to generate conflict, he tried to kickstart the cold war between Oash and Borsail. But the white knights came in and rode all over him for it.
It's not just Valorisk. I've been watching this happen for the last year and a half.And so Allanak is stagnate. Anyone that is even mildly subversive is killed. The happy snowflakes thrive. And nobody can figure why in all fuck the game is so boring right now.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 7, 2016 18:42:25 GMT -5
I'm going go out on a limb and suggest that the general forum has it backwards. It's players that stagnate the game, not staff. And I'll tell you why I think that. The current social order of Allanak is dominated by a handful of players, nobles and templars. And I would describe the current crop as less than satisfactory. That's because most of the active, ambitious, and self-driven making-their-own-fun players got driven off by the staff over the last few years.
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slink
staff puppet account
Posts: 7
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Post by slink on Apr 7, 2016 18:47:54 GMT -5
Or they moved on with their lives. Or they're playing differing roles. Or they're squelched by the current player administration. There are plenty of players trying to play interesting roles that involve other players even currently.
Staff want you to have fun. Believe it or not.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 7, 2016 18:50:40 GMT -5
Valorisk was a non-factor by the time I killed him. He was seen in public twice a month, and I suspect the player was happy to be assassinated. The reason I did it was first of all, my character had been offered the contract; and secondly, I saw the plot opportunities and the chance to "make something happen." Unfortunately, the current crop of templars consists of useless idiots, one of whom just logs on every other week to execute the first noteworthy PC he can get his hands on, and the other was so out of touch with the game's setting that he genuinely seemed to believe that it was the first time in history that a noble was assassinated. This generation of templars is just shit on a stick.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Apr 7, 2016 19:03:53 GMT -5
bro, Valorisk played regularly. I don't know what you're smoking.
he was also the center of conflict for a great many PCs. Timotheo's the one I rarely ever see, and his idea of politics is using somebody with master backstab to settle dispute
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 7, 2016 19:04:51 GMT -5
And was very rarely seen in public. I would know. It was my job to assassinate him. We weren't sure he still played, he was so low-profile by then. In the entire month leading up to it, we were able to find him in public exactly twice. And we were looking for him. If he played regularly, it was in private.
Most of what you post is ignorant nonsense and incorrect guesswork. You're basically trying to sound like you have a clue, but you don't. You sound like a GDBer.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Apr 7, 2016 19:09:58 GMT -5
You mean the noble everybody hated and had a contract on wasn't sitting in Red's without a care in the world? I've had more interactions with Valorisk than Timotheo, so we have opposite views on the two.
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