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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 17, 2016 23:36:51 GMT -5
This is what should be standard fare on an RPI. It only really deserves to be called a plot because the game lacks that kind of roleplay so severely that it's hugely unusual when it happens, attracting so much attention that it tends to be shortlived as so many players will be desperate to get involved, invariably leading to most getting killed as the game is so crammed with codedly powerful characters with nothing to do and a yearning to put their power to use. And that issue stems from the fact that throughout Nyr's tenure, Armageddon's playerbase has been held down, conditioned to accept that they can't do anything, and have had all their ambition and inspiration drained from them as staff has been systematically rejecting and kiboshing everything remotely unusual that anyone has tried to do. As a result of this, nobody makes waves. Nobody has the drive and proactivity to begin anything like this, we've spent the last eight years learning that it isn't possible. Therefore, on the extremely rare occasion that something noteworthy does happen, it stands out so starkly that it just burns out before it can become really interesting. People are so starved for worthwhile roleplay that it just gets overrun anytime there's the first sign of it. It has become a vicious cycle, but it's one that staff created and one that they need to mend. The only caveat I would add, which really makes this hard to fix, is that most of the players who do this sort of thing and excel at it left the game. They're not just keeping their heads down to avoid getting slapped in the face with the staffs' collective junk. They're gone. Most of them aren't coming back. |
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Post by picklehead on Mar 18, 2016 0:35:53 GMT -5
This is what should be standard fare on an RPI. It only really deserves to be called a plot because the game lacks that kind of roleplay so severely that it's hugely unusual when it happens, attracting so much attention that it tends to be shortlived as so many players will be desperate to get involved, invariably leading to most getting killed as the game is so crammed with codedly powerful characters with nothing to do and a yearning to put their power to use. And that issue stems from the fact that throughout Nyr's tenure, Armageddon's playerbase has been held down, conditioned to accept that they can't do anything, and have had all their ambition and inspiration drained from them as staff has been systematically rejecting and kiboshing everything remotely unusual that anyone has tried to do. As a result of this, nobody makes waves. Nobody has the drive and proactivity to begin anything like this, we've spent the last eight years learning that it isn't possible. Therefore, on the extremely rare occasion that something noteworthy does happen, it stands out so starkly that it just burns out before it can become really interesting. People are so starved for worthwhile roleplay that it just gets overrun anytime there's the first sign of it. It has become a vicious cycle, but it's one that staff created and one that they need to mend. The only caveat I would add, which really makes this hard to fix, is that most of the players who do this sort of thing and excel at it left the game. They're not just keeping their heads down to avoid getting slapped in the face with the staffs' collective junk. They're gone. Most of them aren't coming back. It isn't just running plots that people want. Running plots is easy. Anyone can do it. It's effecting change at the end of the plot you're running. That's where people run up against an immovable wall. That's the fucking problem. This has been a problem for a long time, even dating back to when Sanvean and Halaster were around and the IDEA of making your mark on the world seemed like it was a remote possibility. It was, then. Barely. If you knew the right people and greased the right wheels. But even then it was nigh improbable. Now? No fucking way. So yea, moving plots forward is possible these days, just don't set your sights very high, because god forbid you achieve something and get force stored. HAR! |
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 5:55:27 GMT -5
You don't need change to run a good plot, seriously change is not necessary to do anything. You just need to do things that involve people and make them interested. Also, yes, I have quit until the fix the goddamn grind so you aren't fuck-all useless until 10-20 days played. They need to make skills servicable right out of the box, otherwise everything devolves into a mastabatory twink-fest JUST TO GET COMPETENT... I've played more than a few whores in RSV, because it's unforgiving and going outside equals fuck you.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 5:57:34 GMT -5
But at least you know that playing in RSV keeps staff dick out of your plots, so you play there despite the horrendous beetles and shit weather, because at the end of the day, that's what's going to fuck you. Either staff, or the players they favor.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 6:20:24 GMT -5
And getting banned kind of sucks, but whatever. I could get by that shit if I wanted to, but I lack the energy to give two shits. What does it take to run a good plot? Staff hates good plots, so good luck.
EDIT: So far, the only good plot I've seen that they supported even half-heartedly was Drazen's. If he'd been on more often, it would have been amazing. That PC could have moved the goddamn world. Maybe things will change because they got some good sponsored roles in but as long as everything has to be edgy bullshit to appeal to them, well, that's unsustainable, and I can't blame people for not wanting to participate.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 6:37:44 GMT -5
Then there's Malifaxis, I know some of you hate him, but you can totally tell this player, even without staff support, is a goddamn beast who makes things happen. He's a pretty good rper, too (which means he does crazy shit that might not always have the best outcome). You might hate me for this, but Lizzie is also not bad. Most of what we "know" is kind of tainted, and we need to keep in mind that the GDB is simply a game where you suck staff dick so they don't rip yours off.
EDIT: Though I guess Malken is kind of fun to play with, it doesn't change the fact that he's a real dick and needs to grow the fuck up. His antics here were, not inspiring.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Mar 18, 2016 7:47:27 GMT -5
This is what should be standard fare on an RPI. It only really deserves to be called a plot because the game lacks that kind of roleplay so severely that it's hugely unusual when it happens, attracting so much attention that it tends to be shortlived as so many players will be desperate to get involved, invariably leading to most getting killed as the game is so crammed with codedly powerful characters with nothing to do and a yearning to put their power to use. And that issue stems from the fact that throughout Nyr's tenure, Armageddon's playerbase has been held down, conditioned to accept that they can't do anything, and have had all their ambition and inspiration drained from them as staff has been systematically rejecting and kiboshing everything remotely unusual that anyone has tried to do. As a result of this, nobody makes waves. Nobody has the drive and proactivity to begin anything like this, we've spent the last eight years learning that it isn't possible. Therefore, on the extremely rare occasion that something noteworthy does happen, it stands out so starkly that it just burns out before it can become really interesting. People are so starved for worthwhile roleplay that it just gets overrun anytime there's the first sign of it. It has become a vicious cycle, but it's one that staff created and one that they need to mend. The only caveat I would add, which really makes this hard to fix, is that most of the players who do this sort of thing and excel at it left the game. They're not just keeping their heads down to avoid getting slapped in the face with the staffs' collective junk. They're gone. Most of them aren't coming back. To add to this complicated dilemma current players can be just as much to blame as the imms themselves. A lot of players actually encourage the culture of limitation and even go so far as to fight for its existence. Some limitation is good surely but not when its taken to such extremes that the game devolves into its current state of stagnation where virtually nothing happens short of the odd (100% safe) dungeon crawl for ankhegs or spider assault. Players like desertman will actually back down in their own goals and concede that they are stupid if a Talia or a Urinemoose says they are. And rather than pushing and fighting for something, anything, to take place in the game, they will simply surrender their objective and go back to hunting scrabs all day. Players like RGS will look for cleverly worded ways of discouraging anything that involves improving the environment of the game, insisting that everything is fine, for no other reason than the sheer delight in contradicting people and discouraging growth. Posters like Lizzie will agree with posts depending upon the ebb and flow of her hormones, then disagree with the very same proposals later that afternoon. With her sort you can only be certain she will promote limitation and a lessening of player ambition. These kind of players are damaging to the game and are just as much to blame as nyr and every petty, small minded imm before him who were also once players as well (players probably just like all the examples I've used). If it were instead the opposite and the overwhelming majority of players were actively and visibly pushing for improvement, growth, possibility, and a chance to carve your own legacy in the game. And if they did so on the GDB, regularly. You just might see a different turn of events than the current sad state of affairs. The culture of limitation exists in large part due to the more obsessive minded imms who control things but they are supported by their fandom who continue to instill the staff with a sense that what they're doing is right. Most of the good players left but it's not just that all that's left are boring Aidas and Brands and Rukes. It's that all that's left are players who willfully (and shamefully) support, encourage, and actually even fight for a culture of limitation where the most you can amount to is a warrior with maxed weapon skills who leaves no impression or memory for accomplishing anything behind. |
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jjhardy
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Post by jjhardy on Mar 18, 2016 10:59:09 GMT -5
To add to this complicated dilemma current players can be just as much to blame as the imms themselves. A lot of players actually encourage the culture of limitation and even go so far as to fight for its existence. My fav is an ongoing thread I made myself puke to read this morning about removing the 'nil' reach for magickers. This is right up the alley about people buggering themselves about limiting things. I don't know the reasoning and I don't care, but reading this and one comment was enough to make me want to poke my own eyes out. |
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 12:25:36 GMT -5
You are right, Jesantu, about the culture of limition... however, let's look at Ruke, that was a player-made monster that did his best to stifle any kind of RP and when he finally died? People panicked, because who's going to stop the powerbase he formed?
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 12:26:42 GMT -5
Ruke was pretty amazing though, if you peeled that goddamn unskinnable onion.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Mar 18, 2016 12:29:14 GMT -5
Truth be told, I'm sad he's gone, he was a better storyteller than Armali or Ish, and now, well, Luir's is even worse.
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OT
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Post by OT on Mar 18, 2016 12:49:13 GMT -5
There can be little hope for improvement when a large portion of the GDB sycophants will vehemently deny that the problems even exist. For instance, anyone who isn't completely bereft of sense can see how utterly stagnant the game is, but you still get people like RGS and the southlands staff disagreeing, either because they're privy to certain private and closely-guarded plots that affect 1% of the playerbase and unable to conceive of the perspective of everyone else, or because they simply don't want to agree with anything that criticizes something they identify with. Probably a bit of both, and both are extreme personality failures when it comes to being either a prominent player or an administrator of a game like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 5:24:47 GMT -5
Edit: Not quite sure why I was mentioned here. Can you clarify for me? Am I the one vehemently denying there are problems?
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OT
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Post by OT on Mar 19, 2016 6:37:38 GMT -5
You've been fiercely disagreeing whenever it comes up that the game is stagnant and there's not enough going on, to the point of completely lying about things in order to be contrary. I remember you claiming that the Allanak taverns are always busy, for instance, when actually two of them are always empty and the third is spotty at best and frequently empty even during peak hours. You claimed that the game is exactly the same as it always was, totally denying that there's any stagnation and, at least in prior discussions on this topic, opposed the notion that the game has become more boring.
Being so violently contrary to problems that are hilariously self-evident is bad for the game. I find that very much comparable to Lizzie's statements of how the game is the best it's ever been and the roleplaying environment thriving more than ever, at a time when it was nearly falling apart last year and losing half its playerbase for a while. It's just so starkly opposite to the truth that it almost feels like someone intentionally trying to prevent things from improving. What possible reason can somebody have for taking up the fight against warranted criticism other than wanting to look loyal to staff?
And then, when some of the game's most vocal players do that, why should staff make an effort? Even when they make no effort and allow the game to mire in crippling stagnation, there's still people swearing that everything's great and staff is amazing. Makes it rather easy for them to decide that nothing needs to change. Anyone who tries to play today's Armageddon from an objective perspective, and not that of staff's DM view or the artificially inflated activity levels of OOC friend cliques, can see that there's almost nothing going on and the game is so bereft of meaningful activity in what should be its most active and populated sphere that it's hard to even attempt to get anything started because it's like trying to plan a party in a coma ward.
Anyone who can defend that and fight against people's desire to change it is someone who doesn't actually have the game's best interests at heart, and is certainly not someone that I can respect. It's wildly dishonest, and it holds the game back.
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jesantu
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Post by jesantu on Mar 19, 2016 7:14:10 GMT -5
Newtwink says it best. If RGS is truly oblivious to his godawful reputation then I'm past words at this point. The best strategy you could adopt by now is to simply take a month off posting anything and when you do post limit it to one or two sentences at best. Take a gdb lauramars approach for a while and see if that makes you feel better. I actually think it would help you.
The more times goes by the more blame I place on players than imms. That isn't to say the staff are largely comprised of reasonable folks. But I place more blame now on the enabler than the heroin addict.
It's simple, Armageddon. Be open to criticism. Or continue to stagnate.
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