jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Feb 23, 2016 1:48:29 GMT -5
Assuming you're having fun on the game and assuming it's not hurting you at all. Why would you find the staff actions to be unreasonable. For every vocal ex player here there are several silent players who still enjoy the game but take issue with numerous staff members. I could make a pretty good sized list of the number in fact. They love the game and want to see it improve....or change hands to better administration. And for that they find the staff actions to be unreasonable.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 23, 2016 1:50:22 GMT -5
I'm sure there is a portion of the playerbase who do not want to chance being censured or banned for sharing their opinions. I have several people on AIM right now who are shocked I was banned. None of them have posted in my defense and I have no asked them too. That being said this community wouldn't exist if there wasn't a sizable portion of CURRENT and ex players who had issues with staff direction and staff decisions and staff ethics.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 23, 2016 1:51:57 GMT -5
I legitimately deserve a ban for posting request tool dumps alone. The only problem with them banning me is that they appeared to have waited for a completely unconnected incident done by someone else. If Nergal wanted to pop onto TMC and go, Jeshin violated this rule and this rule and this rule. I'd publicly say, yeah I did, while I wasn't a player and had quit the game anyway. ... and banning Red Ranger? Even the newer people who don't think must have wondered about that. So why are they so easily accepting that GDBia has always been at war with Eurcartera East Carter?
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Post by jcarter on Feb 23, 2016 9:49:05 GMT -5
i wonder how many people that are upset regarding leaked video game documentation available to people who aren't authorized to see it also apply that same thought process to pirating media? judging from the amount of self-awareness exercised, i'm going to say probably zero. but anyway, that thread reads like people are roleplaying Tulukis on the GDB. the cult-like rhetoric is creepy as well as total lack of self-awareness. some examples: Unfortunately, the people you refer to have often been on an emotional response for a year or longer. The fact that they just can't let go of it after all this time, or continues to play a game where they feel those in charge of it are out to get them, is simply WEIRD and UNHEALTHY. [...] What I haven't done, though, is being a constant little stalking prick via requests to the point that Staff would rather just stop dealing with me permanently than to continue giving me chances after chances. [...] You are perfectly fine with saying whatever you want here (to a certain degree, of course - civility will get you far in life) and to be friends with anyone you want on jcarter.org and I guarantee you that nothing will happen to you or your account, as long as you don't turn into an annoying prick that just refuses to let go of an issue that was decided forever ago, or that you continue to bitch non-stop about the game and its staff on every single venues you can find while continuing to play said game. [...] This is getting ridiculous, even for someone like me who loves to read the new hourly weird Arm-related gossip - Man, how many Armageddon related forums are there anyway?? the GDB, jcarter.org, now TMC and whatever Optional Realities is? these statements are patently false. as we've seen with multiple examples over the years, people who post here have been banned for posting here. also afaik no one here has engaged in behavior that can even be close to considered 'stalking'. not to mention the pot-kettle-black situation of a guy who admits to following gossip non-stop decrying other people who also like to read and post gossip? But I will note that they definitely have more of that over there than over here...to the point that it was all 'Welcome! Welcome!' until you said something pro-staff or pro-game or anti-established-shadowboarder-words...in which case they rabidly attacked said person and tried openly to invalidate said opinion as 'afraid of losing karma', 'gdb community wannabe', 'staff pet', and etc. It's not like attempts weren't made to bridge the gap and make accomodations. The 'line to be crossed' was moved back several times for them. It really was just a forum -designed- to be one thing, but hijacked and turned into another thing entirely due to their stance on lack of regulation and moderation. Such is the cost. users here are free to post w/e commentary and like of staff they want with zero repercussions. yes, people on what is essentially an unmoderated will disagree on the internet. i understand this is shocking to the sensibility but let's be realistic here, if there's a gang-up it's what, two to three people? none the less, there's many cases where people have openly praised staff and been positive and haven't been dogpiled nor accused of being a 'staff pet' out of the blue. that being said, this guy has zero self-awareness and is applying the same rhetoric to a group of people that he condemns them for. another post: ...hopeandsorrow, what I think might be the issue in your case, as far as feeling like an outsider? I could be completely wrong in this matter, but... Jcarter's forum would have you believe that the behavior they have there, is happening all over the place over here, just behind closed doors. So basically, you not being in any group from here doing that same sort of discussion was you being an outsider? That was one of the big harms of that forum that I've talked about. Such weird bits of misinformation that can have such a big impact on things. Most of us do not congregate somewhere else and talk about Arm. I...talk about Arm...on the GDB. I send occasional PM's to people if I don't want to derail a thread, or if there is something off-topic that I want to talk about. I think people get pulled into occasional small-time AIM or YIM 'relationships' with people where it waxes and wanes...but largely, this is the main way it works. The way they were over there is how they wanted it to be. That's just not how it is here, for a lot different reasons than what you're told. It's not some club to keep new players down, that's...frankly -preposterous-, yet cited as a universal truth over there. It's not a deadlock of information to maintain a status quo. It's not a hazing ritual. They're jading you before you're even exposed to those few actual instances where it hurts you. You're already part of what we're part of, man. You've just been trained to have an expectation of what being part of that is, and it's a false expectation. here's a weird cultish post: awkward welcoming, shunning of the 'other group' which actually isn't a group but w/e, forced inclusion into a group and positive reassurances. And furthermore, the hosting of the 1999 version of the website and participation of that hosted game should also be grounds for banning. [...] For those who are participants of that forum, I do ask you to stop. Further participation of that forum will help keep it relevant in the community and does not nothing to ensure that something like this does not happen again. this is a former staff member. they are literally stating that you should be kicked off of Armageddon MUD because you logged into a 16 year old clone of the MUD. followed by some sort of moral plea that puts the onus of this leak on anyone involved in this forum. now let's put this into context: this leak does not and has not effected of Arm nor altered their use or play of the game in any way. on the staff side, there has been no evidence of any actual damage done. but yet you should totally refrain from posting on an internet forum and discussing a game. I'm actually curious to see how this all turns out. I like it how some people in jcarter's forums left in protest of what someone there did. Kudos to them. Fok you to those who voiced their support of the deed. You want to move past this 'dick move' deed? Express your protest. Dont express it cowardly/forced/Oh fine, if you insist type of way like Jeshin did at some conversation with Nergal. Express your protest, leave the group that's supporting the 'dick move' action. again, no awareness. who does this person think is going to be reading these leaked documents? Armageddon MUD players. including Arm players that actively participate on the GDB. there is no 'group', as if this forum is made up of a separate entity that has its own sentience. they even acknowledge in the post that there were plenty of people who didn't support it here...but fail to make the connection. This is people who were very open in opposition of a long-standing rule, and actually had it tolerated to a much larger degree than -I- ever saw in my time here. So when a certain line was crossed, the long-standing warning that was given to many, many players of 'You should probably not associate there' is being acted upon. Doesn't have to be permanent. But I fail to see this as some overreaction. This is measured and -normal-, albeit delayed to give the benefit of the doubt (which failed). i wonder if he believes that people who he's likely familiar with such as @rgs my2sids and malkeninthemiddle should be banned for coming here and posting? probably not. When the "community" does nothing but upset people, spoil fun things, and talk shit on staff I don't see any reason to tolerate it. I'm not saying EVERYONE should be banned, but the ones who've been extremely negative don't need to be here. I would hope staff reconsider edge cases once things calm down, but I don't see being liberal with the ban hammer as an over reaction. If a player in one of my table top games behaved as bad as some of the people in that 'community' I would kick them out of my game, and never talk to them again. I don't see why staff can't have that option too. this post. it really sums up a lot of the 'thought' in other posts have but puts it into words. if you are a negative person, even if your words are on a forum elsewhere, you should not be allowed to play this video game. so absurd. but this is what the poster believes. If you look at the posts regarding the Arm clone that was thrown up, you'll see it wasn't the vast majority that spoke out against this. Do we really want to talk about the conduct and specific comments said forum has made against the rest of the playerbase? The fact is people have voluntarily chosen to participate in an unmoderated discussion of the playerbase and staff of Armageddon, some of whom are quite hostile towards said players and staff. Furthermore there has been a not-insiginificant amount of rules violations from said participants. I do not see why there is surprise that those participants are being banned. They took said conversations to the unmoderated venue because they knew it was against the rules of the game and would not be tolerated on this forum. Have some of the participants tried to do good? Definitely. Have the majority? Buggered if I know, but a definite sizable portion have been hostile towards players and/or staff of this game and only a minority have spoken out against the rule infractions that the participants of that forum engage in. The fact people weren't banned the second they posted there is a testament to how much the staff have changed towards tolerance when it comes to players breaking the rules. haha, this post. the wording. it's beautiful. "it wasn't the vast majority". "said forum has made against the rest of the playerbase". "definite sizable portion". qualitative descriptions of numbers to prove a point, followed by a subservient declaration of the glory of staff tolerance, and a dash of 'they deserve it for talking about it on the internet'. this whole thing tickles me. you would think people were talking about something that actually mattered. instead, it's petty squabbling and posturing over a niche video game and whether or not people should be allowed to talk about it on a separate website. the biggest take-away for me is just the dynamics and mindset of people involved. it's like a microcosm of the american two-party system, except instead of segregated teams fighting over the next president of a global superpower, it's a heavily overlapping group discussing what is ultimately a meaningless and transient topic.
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Post by RogueRougeRanger on Feb 23, 2016 10:04:17 GMT -5
I legitimately deserve a ban for posting request tool dumps alone. The only problem with them banning me is that they appeared to have waited for a completely unconnected incident done by someone else. If Nergal wanted to pop onto TMC and go, Jeshin violated this rule and this rule and this rule. I'd publicly say, yeah I did, while I wasn't a player and had quit the game anyway. ... and banning Red Ranger? Even the newer people who don't think must have wondered about that. So why are they so easily accepting that GDBia has always been at war with Eurcartera East Carter?
Here's the cut/paste of my post on why I think I was banned: So I knew something was up yesterday morning (Eastern Time) when the typical GDB account I've been using was banned. It wasn't until yesterday PM that I checked to confirm that I was also banned from the MUD itself. Interestingly, when they did all that banning (without the courtesy of any notification to me or, apparently, to Jeshin either) they never got around to banning my original GDB account (on the current iteration of the GDB account #69 dude!) handle Red Ranger. So this morning just now I was browsing the GDB using my Red Ranger GDB account when I was suddenly banned. Again, none of this is surprising. What was genuinely surprising was that when they were handing out the bannings they neglected to ban my best known GDB account. The game belongs to the staff, not to the players. The staff can do whatever they want with it, including banning whomever they want for whatever reason they please. They can declare that IC’ly one plus one equals three or that Kurac doesn’t exist or never existed. They can then ban any player that makes the mistake of mentioning Kurac IC’ly (or OOC’ly!) thereafter. It’s their game! Of course, just because they CAN do something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea or that everyone should agree with their decisions. In my opinion, to understand their motivations for banning me one must understand that it’s all about control. It’s understandable that they don’t like me because I disagree with their decisions and I post about it on a public forum openly using my Armageddon identity. But I had nothing to do with the wiki leak and I even hadn’t posted anything about it on the GDB or on the SB one way or the other. I also haven’t had the heart to play Arm since late 2014, as I’ve posted multiple times before. So why ban me from the GDB and the game? Again, IMO it’s about control and they understandably feel even more vulnerable and out of control because of the leak. So they’ve lashed out and I’m a convenient target. Banning me from a game I haven’t played lately doesn’t hurt me and banning me from the GDB doesn’t hurt me. It also does nothing to stop me from posting on the SB, which they don’t like, why would I stop? But in addition to whatever vindictive glee they get from banning me, the real reason for my ban is to reassert control by sending a message to other players: “If you speak up, you could be next. We own this MUD, not you.” In the Staff wiki/docs thread @jaunt has made good points about the need for collaboration, and I agree 100%. In fact I lamented that loss of collaboration in my very first post on the SB when I outted myself: And that’s emblematic of what Armageddon has become for me: squelched player efforts for zero gain. There are no true IC politics and there’s certainly no collaborative effort from the staff to world-build with the players. It’s sad to lose what feels like an old friend..." I think that those in the playerbase, both on the GDB and on the SB, that have really thought about the problems of Arm have come to the conclusion that there’s a lack of collaboration and they wish there were more. But collaboration requires compromise and ceding some control and I just don’t think that the staff of Arm are interested in loosening their control over the game at all.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 23, 2016 15:06:34 GMT -5
Malken is actively flaming me personally on the GDB, spouting things that are objectively against the rules of the GDB; yet he hasn't been moderated nor will he. I encourage him to continue insulting me on a personal level, because it will prove my point about how the staff members are unilaterally rejecting their own policies in order to single out me and others for their arbitrary punishment.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Feb 23, 2016 15:21:49 GMT -5
I made a pretty good Roadhouse analogy to purg about all this. I hope he shares it with discord so that everyone can learn a life lesson today.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 23, 2016 19:13:23 GMT -5
its pretty pathetic when players at Arm who are identified as 'Helpers' come over here to stoke the flames and spread misinformation to try to make "their side" look better.
but hey we're the crazy ones.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 20:27:43 GMT -5
its pretty pathetic when players at Arm who are identified as 'Helpers' come over here to stoke the flames and spread misinformation to try to make "their side" look better. but hey we're the crazy ones. Wait, we know we're crazy?
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Post by topkekm8s on Feb 23, 2016 22:32:56 GMT -5
did anyone back the wiki up
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 23, 2016 23:29:55 GMT -5
did anyone back the wiki up Carter did
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Post by jonsmith on Feb 24, 2016 0:18:38 GMT -5
Jcarter just needs to put it back up to say F U to the Staff and their shitty bannings.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Feb 24, 2016 10:38:26 GMT -5
Jcarter just needs to put it back up to say F U to the Staff and their shitty bannings. I am all for this, I'd like to see this shit.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 24, 2016 12:21:59 GMT -5
here's where i'm at right now.
i'm sorting through pages and making a whitelist. staff has not contacted me so im gonna assume they really do not give a fuck or want to mitigate any unforeseen consequences.
i'm also inbetween on whether or not i want to release certain things uncensored -- player-submitted biographies in particular, as they have account names on them. i'll probably just edit out the account names and release them eventually because there's a lot have good content. there's also things like logfiles of senate meetings from an immpoint of view which I haven't combed through yet but when I glanced there was names attached -- I think it's character names but I'm not 100%. i'll try to put some of the wiki stuff in the next couple days.
in the meantime, myself and others have put up some pages on the Arm wikia wiki from the 'secret history' files.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 24, 2016 12:43:19 GMT -5
Jcarter, what about players who have requests that their information not be shared? Will you be willing to listen to those?
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