Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 10:39:40 GMT -5
Almost all of the game content strikes me as a lawless area, where there are only four real controls on pvp.
1, getting caught and punished or killed
2, failing, and getting punished or killed for it
3, psions, meaning that no amount of planning and execution can protect you
4, A characters personality traits or flaws
I can see situations where we'd have better story if we had endless rivalry, slights, insults, etc. However, the first character who gets sufficiently annoyed to strike, stays alive.
By character flaws or traits, I mean sadism, overdeveloped pride, blinding prejudicial hate, of codes or honor. In the Arm environment, I see these as good narrative choices if you as a player are comfortable with losing.
Further, I cant see many people in these cultures, actually finding killing abhorrent. I can see them being very protective of family, tribe, or maybe even House or city. Especially when bigotry and class prejudice are supposed to be part of the canon, shouldnt pcs default to silently dealing with their rivalries and rages, until they cant decisively remove the source of their problems?
I dont think defaulting to pks is good for the game, or appreciated by many players, so I thought to ask the readership here how they approach this topic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 14:25:11 GMT -5
You forgot the other controls on PvP:
Pre-empted death by NPC person/critter
Pre-empted death by shield wall/other climb-check critical fail
Pre-empted death by silt sea
All of these things will - and often do - prevent PK
I also don't believe that "defaulting to pks" is common even among people who do PK other characters. Often it's a "when all else fails" situation and by the time you get that far, the target in question is either heavily protected by authority or has sparred more than you and you can't touch them anymore. Personally I'd like to see more people attempting to PK and less wishing they could have attempted back when it was still possible to succeed.
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Patuk
Shartist
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Post by Patuk on Dec 27, 2015 14:29:54 GMT -5
I dont think defaulting to pks is good for the game, or appreciated by many players, so I thought to ask the readership here how they approach this topic. Pretty much. Arm is a classic case where the tragedy of the commons leads to its prisoner's dilemma-like scenarios ending up in defect/defect more often than not, though. |
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dcdc
Shartist
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Post by dcdc on Dec 27, 2015 14:35:59 GMT -5
Heh I think the biggest issue at least in Arm with PK's is they're rarely (in my experience) the conclusion to a long standing interesting rivalry.
The function in my head works as this
If PC > than my pc's skill/power, ignore/run away/make friends.
If PC < than my pc's skill/power, kill tall.man
Perhaps it's more complex than this, but besides the occasional cool thing, seems like most people hold their cards to their chest while thinking "Wish a mother fucker would."
And if that mother fucker happens to be a few less days played, you'll see a PK.
If that mother fucker is cloaked in power? Nothing will come of it.
I'm not arguing against "le Harsh Armageddon" or what ever, I do believe though watching this situation play out a few times, it's terribly uninteresting to watch. Rarely do PC's start shit with those 'above them'. It's understandable considering the speed in which you'll see the mantis head. Yet in the same breath I can't really respect the player of a commoner PC finding every loose reason in the books to crush those he knows are unskilled or aren't as powerful.
I guess, if a PK is the result of an actual story, some type of rivalry, than cool.
My experience is, most PK's I've witnessed/been apart of was "Hey this dude has the wrong accent and less than groveling at my feet for mercy, he's fucking dead." In some cases watching PC's develop Sadomasochism right in that moment for the sheer convenience of it! Of course after the PK they become docile complicate paragons of duty, never questioning orders or social structure just lying in wait again for another episode of "Wish a mother fucker would.". This is when I roll my eyes at the "nuclear option" because it's pulled out by individual PC's for the silliest flimsy reasons just because they wanna add a notch to the PK belt.
I think it be less of an issue if socio/political power structures with in the setting could duke it out, even openly some times, at the same level. Taking hits at each other on a regular basis gives players a line to sand on it inside of a conflict or if they choose, avoid it. Of course than people complain that things might be too deadly for their 12 day old merchant so I dunno...
I will say I've seen PvP situation that made sense when things got deadly. That the esclation of violence between two PC groups follow a logical and interesting story. Those are times I'd like to see the nukes broke out. Not because you failed a steal check on some Bynner half-elf squeeze that's cucking him when hes out on every contract.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 14:56:11 GMT -5
I like to make things interesting. Killing people makes things interesting. I started out playing Arj, the perpetual do-gooder, who only killed a handful of people over a two year time. He killed them all because of his belief system, and for no other reason.
Now I like to play characters who will kill out of sheer convenience. If you're in the way and you're expendable: sayonara, motherfucker. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, to be honest, because each little death is a raindrop on the spiderweb.
In particular, I like aiming for people who are -above- my character's stations. Sure, the great majority of people you end up killing will be those table scraps who got piss on your boots, and ended up with the shank, but ... man, those kills where you have to go full Frank Underwood ... I'm still looking forward to playing a character again who is smart enough to play those strings.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Dec 27, 2015 15:10:30 GMT -5
I'm not a huge fan of the perpetual wandering buff ranger who indiscriminately murders everyone in his/her path. Now, if they have some kind of attachment to a clan and they kill tough characters or other clanned chars? Cool, stirring the pot. tldr; there needs to be a real reason for conflict, clan rivalries, scarcity of resources that pit people against one another, competition, etc. The same old shit that people that been asking for but staff have yet to implement.
Random indie/noob PK is meh, definitely with a shrinking playerbase.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 15:15:18 GMT -5
Random indie/noob PK is meh, definitely with a shrinking playerbase. One of the things that always hurts my soul a little, though, is when you gotta bust a cap in a newbie. I recall playing a templar who would often try to give criminals in the jails a reason to survive and work for him, but it was always "FUCK YOU! YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!" On a couple of occasions, I even broke down and OOCed to fully explain why their character was gonna die, and that I hoped they enjoyed their next character. Lol |
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dcdc
Shartist
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Post by dcdc on Dec 27, 2015 15:43:52 GMT -5
Random indie/noob PK is meh, definitely with a shrinking playerbase. One of the things that always hurts my soul a little, though, is when you gotta bust a cap in a newbie. I recall playing a templar who would often try to give criminals in the jails a reason to survive and work for him, but it was always "FUCK YOU! YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!" On a couple of occasions, I even broke down and OOCed to fully explain why their character was gonna die, and that I hoped they enjoyed their next character. Lol Lol the other side of the coin, that guy... no one likes that guy. I've seen that too, thinking all the while "You know if this was anywhere near realistic this dude shut the fuck up, pay the bribe or what ever and be on his merry way". But noooooooo it's like his RL pride in on the line. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2015 16:01:13 GMT -5
The fabulously-drawn, plastic-chinned man says, in tribal-accented sirihish:
"My tribe never backs down from a fight! Face me!"
The ruddy, hardnosed templar looks at a half-giant soldier, flabbergasted.
A half-giant soldier looks at the ruddy, hardnosed templar and shrugs.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Dec 27, 2015 17:01:50 GMT -5
Templars can get infinite mon fireballs inside the city. I've seen them knock a bahamet cold (heh) in two strikes. Getting in a straight-up fight with a Templar ain't gonna work out.
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king
Clueless newb
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Post by king on Dec 27, 2015 18:27:53 GMT -5
highly recommend poison/ambush when killing templars. if you give the player time to react, he'll nuke the shit out of you.
shit. we should make a "how to kill templars" thread.
1) lead them off cliff
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Post by jcarter on Dec 27, 2015 18:29:29 GMT -5
how to get rid of a templar:
wait 3 months for them to get bored and retire.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Dec 28, 2015 2:00:06 GMT -5
in the spirit of derailing shit, what the fuck do templars and nobles even do these days? shit, is there anything for them to do other than endless strings of pointless parties?
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