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Post by BitterFlashback on Nov 11, 2015 21:34:41 GMT -5
Ehhh... this seems like a lot of speculation. I'm all up for a pessimism-down on Arm, but Rath's projects in Tuluk were a total 180 from Nyr's and Rath got royally fucked over by the closing. Do you have any examples of Rath going full-nyrtard? This is long post, but it addresses a question that deserves a serious response. I think it's important to show why my statements have nothing to do with vitriol or negativity and everything to do with pragmatic realism. You made a good post, and your logic is solid, but I really was just hoping for some concrete examples. Since you've taken the time to lay everything out, I will take the time to offer some insight into why I am unconvinced Rath is the Devil's offspring. 1) I don't think he's as bad as Nyr. I simply postulate that he is the exact sort of person that might conceivably rise to Producer in a Nyr-dominated staff hierarchy. If you can imagine, in your own mind, what such a person might be like that Nyr would want to replace him...Well. There you go. There's no doubt that Rath is much more polite than Nyr. But that doesn't mean that philosophically they're that different. 2) So in order to determine what Rath's philosophy might be, I have to set it alongside known facts (i.e, the aforementioned indisputable fact of Rath being chosen to replace Nyr in a Nyr-dominated political hierarchy) and what few statements he has made. Such as his known views of the Tablelands, his seeming lack of recognition of the fact that it was staff who drove the Tablelands to where it is now, and his seeming, instinctive view of players as more 'audience' than actors. He's probably - much like Nyr is - much more slanted to seeing big plots and machinations in the game as being the preserve of NPCs. 5) Those who think that the majority of staff suddenly realized Nyr was driving players away and rose up and deposed him in a coup lead by Rath, are dreaming. Rath is Nyr's handpicked protege, and would eagerly and happily step down the moment Nyr deigns to return While 1 and 2 sound true, they're not definite. We don't know why Nyr left, what his intentions might be, or who appointed Rath. Last I looked, there were three producers. Nyr may be the most out in front, but that doesn't make him King Nyr, Lord of Arm, First of His Name. IIRC Ness has the actual computer the game is running on in his possession; no amount of being a smug dipshit could allow Nyr to crowd Ness out. As for #5, that is heavy speculation. There are 3 producers, remember. For all we know Rath got 2 votes and neither of them came from that arrogant cockbag who went on hiatus. Some other thoughts on how Rath was picked: - Tuluk was making a slow recovery when Rath replaced Nyr down there. Rath may be seen as someone who can clean up Nyr's messes (realism) or improve on his designs (denial), depending on perspective.
- Rath's Tuluki project was very player-driven and based on player contribution. If the staff wanted someone to try something different (temporarily), he'd be a good pick.
- Rath may also be more active behind the scenes than some of the other staff with similar seniority.
- We don't know what the requirements for Nyr's temporary replacement; Rath may have been the only staffer to volunteer who fit the personality-nonspecific bill.
- Nyr may not have time or interest in picking his stand-in because of whatever he's going through IRL.
- Nyr may have been pulling a Nessalin in hopping out of his producer role in advance of what might be the end of the game, so that he can claim it didn't die on his watch so he is blameless. Rath may have been picked based on his good rep with some of the people here, or based on his conflict with Nyr's philosophy, or really just at random.
3) Then we can extrapolate from that, how most staffers in the past have behaved, when they were known to favor a 'top down' approach to storytelling. A 'top down' approach is when the storyteller (rarely even including the very highest echelons of player leadership such as templars) assume the full responsibility of being the plot engine. ... 4) Similarly, I'm sure logins will spike when Rath does his big choreographed RPTs, but there will be deep troughs. I recall Rath's approach to Tuluk, at least as it was described with the crime families, was very player-centric. I don't believe it involved any PC-killing holy shit lightshow RPTs so much as it involved the slightly-less-lowest-of-the-low competing to be less lower. The whole upcoming Tablelands thing might just be an attempt to drum up interest in something new that he just worded poorly. And as my2sids said, he hates this board and all the personalities on it. If he's told my2sids that, one almost shudders to imagine what he's confided to those who really feel the same way. I really thought my2sids was kidding about that. So yes. Far from making assumptions, I feel that my viewpoint of Rath is the obvious one, and that most others are blinded by hope. In fairness, I said "speculating". I don't disagree that you could be right, but I would like some actual examples of what he's done that supports your speculations. From what little I've seen he's big on player participation, both in the writing and the doing. Do you have any things Rath has done that contradict this? |
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Post by sirra on Nov 11, 2015 22:31:02 GMT -5
Fair enough, bitter. Except about the whole 'three producers' things. Both Nessalin and Adhira are hollow gourds filled with shit and apathy. If it weren't for Nyr, neither of them would still be around, as both burned out sometime while George W. Bush was President.
And honestly, I'd feel better about Rath if he were hand-picked by Nyr, than say, Nessalin. Nyr is a bad manager and a arrogant asshole. Nessalin is just a disgusting human being.
Anyhow. All Rath has to do to prove all the most hopeful right and the most negative wrong, is to come here and post a friendly hello. He wouldn't even need to engage or promise anything. If he just came here, and made a couple friendly, modest posts, everyone would love him, and everyone would have reason to...since it would show a really palpable and obvious diversion from previous producer behavior/antipathy.
At the very least, it's being a responsible manager and trying to mend a rift in the game's playerbase. There are countries where genocide has taken place, and you still find people reaching out to start the healing process.
If Rath is really just a seat-warmer for Nyr, and he knows he is, then I don't expect he'll do anything so dramatic as show a hint of humility or modesty. Honestly, I doubt he gives a shit. Whether about what we think of Nyr, or even how Nessalin abuses the staff complaint system.
Because he's basically Dmitry Medvedev.
If I were an Arm staffer, I'd be over here posting and being friendly all the time. But they can't even seem to grasp the benefit of pretending to be friendly, let alone actually being friendly. This board, for all its snark, would get on its knees and suck the cock of any staffer to show even a hint of self-effacing humor. Instead of the usual hysterical self-defensiveness.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 11, 2015 22:43:34 GMT -5
But but Nessalin has been posting new code changes!
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Post by sirra on Nov 11, 2015 22:47:02 GMT -5
But but Nessalin has been posting new code changes! He's such a good coder. He's totally mastered how to comment shit out! I heard he downloaded notepad++, so expect some big changes soon, people. But don't ask him to add a few more subguilds to the chargen. That shit's hard. Only reason Nessalin is still around, is because he's in possession of the hardware. That's why Armageddon's codebase has a higher chance of ending up in an FBI crime lab, than in the hands of someone who isn't completely contemptuous. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 11, 2015 23:01:59 GMT -5
Arms codebase sucks! I can say with the utmost confidence that there isn't anything special about it. A lot of the stuff that is on there can be coded by any competent college student going for their CS degree.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 23:10:05 GMT -5
For the record, I'm SO glad staff doesn't come and post here. That is one thing I do respect about Arm staff, even the staff I dislike. There is something so utterly unprofessional about staff going and posting on third party boards. I have never seen it handled well. I've seen staff on other MUDs:
- Get into petty shouting matches with ex-players
- Get super-defensive about their game
- Complain about how terrible their own playerbase is
- Praise their game while disparaging other games
- Treat third party forums like their own personal forums and try to use their admin power within their own games as leverage
I know you'll argue that staff does some of this stuff already, but they don't go on other people's forums and do it. There's something about that I can't stand.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 11, 2015 23:28:23 GMT -5
I feel the opposite. It is egotistical as fuck when you refuse discourse anywhere but your own neighborhood. Why would I go post on the GDB like ever? Shit I'd got shot in that ghetto ass neighborhood. But then some dude comes over to my place of business and talks shit? No way I ain't havin' that shit. I'll drop a mother fucker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 23:29:07 GMT -5
For the record, I'm SO glad staff doesn't come and post here. That is one thing I do respect about Arm staff, even the staff I dislike. There is something so utterly unprofessional about staff going and posting on third party boards. I have never seen it handled well. I've seen staff on other MUDs: - Get into petty shouting matches with ex-players - Get super-defensive about their game - Complain about how terrible their own playerbase is - Praise their game while disparaging other games - Treat third party forums like their own personal forums and try to use their admin power within their own games as leverage I know you'll argue that staff does some of this stuff already, but they don't go on other people's forums and do it. There's something about that I can't stand. There's always optionalrealities for those things. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 23:32:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I kind of hate it when they do it on OR too. I like what Jeshin is doing over at OR and I read the forums regularly, but there are hardly any MUD staff members who post over there who don't rub me the wrong way, the way they talk about their game, other games, and players.
If they just come in and talk about the development of their new MUD or whatever I'm on board with it. But there's WAY too much bitching going on there.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Nov 12, 2015 3:20:20 GMT -5
I feel the opposite. It is egotistical as fuck when you refuse discourse anywhere but your own neighborhood. Why would I go post on the GDB like ever? Shit I'd got shot in that ghetto ass neighborhood. But then some dude comes over to my place of business and talks shit? No way I ain't havin' that shit. I'll drop a mother fucker. ... no uve got it flipped. ur rinthi/sb ass would get reported and quickly crimcoded thanks to the first scared npc/gdb syncophant (aka that noble aide that likes to roam slavers) that u passed and then roflstomped/sapped/somethinglessthanmantisifurlucky by the nearest hg soldier/gdb admin in sight |
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Post by jcarter on Nov 12, 2015 14:26:07 GMT -5
Arms codebase sucks! I can say with the utmost confidence that there isn't anything special about it. A lot of the stuff that is on there can be coded by any competent college student going for their CS degree. Seriously the mud was built by a 13 year in 1992 |
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Post by topkekm8s on Nov 12, 2015 18:04:33 GMT -5
i am not a goddamn negative nancy you nerfherder
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Nov 12, 2015 19:16:00 GMT -5
i am not a goddamn negative nancy you nerfherder What ever Bruh You depress the shit out of me. |
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mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
Posts: 335
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Post by mood on Nov 13, 2015 14:59:20 GMT -5
a 13 year old is more likely to make a new mud on summer break than any of you fuckers tho, so ARM 2: DARK SUN: THE DARKENING is never going to happen, also just imo lol.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 13, 2015 17:00:21 GMT -5
Uh, Darksun is up and running, I just don't have access to approve characters.
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