jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Nov 11, 2015 3:08:47 GMT -5
Honestly. I don't care. I have nothing better to do with my shitty internet on the ship but check these forums. Soon as I'm back in hawaii my presence on these forums will go down to about once a week if that and I will be rocking out to League or working on Darksun. haha ironic before u discovered shitty ship internet you were looking forward to finally getting that first 'weekly' check in from hawaii
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Post by sirra on Nov 11, 2015 3:43:34 GMT -5
Ehhh... this seems like a lot of speculation. I'm all up for a pessimism-down on Arm, but Rath's projects in Tuluk were a total 180 from Nyr's and Rath got royally fucked over by the closing. Do you have any examples of Rath going full-nyrtard? This is long post, but it addresses a question that deserves a serious response. I think it's important to show why my statements have nothing to do with vitriol or negativity and everything to do with pragmatic realism. 1) I don't think he's as bad as Nyr. I simply postulate that he is the exact sort of person that might conceivably rise to Producer in a Nyr-dominated staff hierarchy. If you can imagine, in your own mind, what such a person might be like that Nyr would want to replace him...Well. There you go. There's no doubt that Rath is much more polite than Nyr. But that doesn't mean that philosophically they're that different. 2) So in order to determine what Rath's philosophy might be, I have to set it alongside known facts (i.e, the aforementioned indisputable fact of Rath being chosen to replace Nyr in a Nyr-dominated political hierarchy) and what few statements he has made. Such as his known views of the Tablelands, his seeming lack of recognition of the fact that it was staff who drove the Tablelands to where it is now, and his seeming, instinctive view of players as more 'audience' than actors. He's probably - much like Nyr is - much more slanted to seeing big plots and machinations in the game as being the preserve of NPCs. 3) Then we can extrapolate from that, how most staffers in the past have behaved, when they were known to favor a 'top down' approach to storytelling. A 'top down' approach is when the storyteller (rarely even including the very highest echelons of player leadership such as templars) assume the full responsibility of being the plot engine. Unfortunately, it's doomed to failure since they'll never be able to keep everyone entertained. Instead, it kills player logins as people assume nothing interesting will happen that isn't an RPT. It also encourages staff burnout. Those who try the hardest burn out the fastest. 4) Similarly, I'm sure logins will spike when Rath does his big choreographed RPTs, but there will be deep troughs. Another test of Rath will be how he acts when people eventually begin having trouble with this. Since it's not so much about him, as him epitomizing a system of game management that is inevitably bound to collide with the interests of the majority of the playerbase. Since it's hard to be as toxic a personality as Nyr is, I'm sure Rath will respond to it in a less infamously aggravating way. But it will still lead to mediocrity. These might sound like a lot of assumptions, but it's pretty much what the State Department does every day. 'Oh, great, General Baboonfucker has replaced Potentate Wubulu in Equatorial Shithole. Quick, what do we know about General Baboonfucker?' And they're forced to make similar assumptions and predictions based on the relative known cliques and attitudes of the individuals involved. In this case, what we have is a very orderly succession. 5) Those who think that the majority of staff suddenly realized Nyr was driving players away and rose up and deposed him in a coup lead by Rath, are dreaming. Rath is Nyr's handpicked protege, and would eagerly and happily step down the moment Nyr deigns to return. Rath has probably consoled Nyr in the past and offered him support and encouragement, when others criticized him. And as my2sids said, he hates this board and all the personalities on it. If he's told my2sids that, one almost shudders to imagine what he's confided to those who really feel the same way. Since I know my2sids is a friendly bloke and likes most everyone here. In conclusion:So yes. Far from making assumptions, I feel that my viewpoint of Rath is the obvious one, and that most others are blinded by hope. But hey, if the only thing bothering you about Armageddon was that Nyr was snarky on the forums, and otherwise loved how it was managed and run, then you should love Rath. If you didn't care much about Nyr being snarky on the forums, but wanted a game that was well run and well managed, and which saw players as its most valuable resource, than you are likely to be quickly disillusioned. Of course, Nyr earned everyone's hatred because he was both arrogant and incompetent. You typically don't get a forum devoted to ripping on you by being only one or the other. You have to be both, and at the same time, somehow luck into a position of supreme authority that most feel you only earned by manipulation and attrition.
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Post by jcarter on Nov 11, 2015 8:36:19 GMT -5
tbh I always liked human tribals and would have loved to have played a seik rukkian if this happened when I was playing. problem is though that humans are so outclassed by d-elves in the tablelands, both through inherit racial power and coded bases etc. if it's tribals banding together, then they have a pretty huge advantage over allanak because any attack on the tablelands is going to require an organized RPT, whereas tribals can just harass city dwellers whenever they step outside the gates and gtfo before there's a response. You typically don't get a forum devoted to ripping on you by being only one or the other. for the love of god this is not a forum devoted to nyr or ripping on nyr. please dont post things like this because it only strokes staff egos and feeds into the persecution complex.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Nov 11, 2015 8:59:23 GMT -5
Lol I know your precious baby has been hijacked by others and myself jcarter, as we fuel the angst of the people we criticize with our frustration. I've got hope for Rath because he strikes me as a tumblroni, and would probably back down if he screws up instead of doubling down again and again.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Nov 11, 2015 10:17:33 GMT -5
Having just played in the role that's being advertised for (and having done so several times before) qualifies me to say that sirra's doomsday postulation is a crock of shit. The role will be fun for people that are interested in playing it. Like I said, staffers like Calavera, Rath, and Mordigg put dozens of hours into adding more content and docs to the tribe/role.
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Post by lyse on Nov 11, 2015 10:24:58 GMT -5
Having just played in the role that's being advertised for (and having done so several times before) qualifies me to say that sirra's doomsday postulation is a crock of shit. The role will be fun for people that are interested in playing it. Like I said, staffers like Calavera, Rath, and Mordigg put dozens of hours into adding more content and docs to the tribe/role. The docs and content you contributed to, right?
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Nov 11, 2015 10:30:32 GMT -5
I never said people want to be given those roles. They aspire to them. I have always had a desire to play a templar until I found out that they can't advance. Fuck that. My character has aspirations, has drive, willpower, yet I as the player no matter how hard I try will never be able to go above a certain rank. It's maddening and I'm sure many players leave because of it. Elven anything.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Nov 11, 2015 10:44:16 GMT -5
Having just played in the role that's being advertised for (and having done so several times before) qualifies me to say that sirra's doomsday postulation is a crock of shit. The role will be fun for people that are interested in playing it. Like I said, staffers like Calavera, Rath, and Mordigg put dozens of hours into adding more content and docs to the tribe/role. The docs and content you contributed to, right? My contributions are relatively minor when compared to what work staff put in, imo.
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Nov 11, 2015 11:11:23 GMT -5
Lol I know your precious baby has been hijacked by others and myself jcarter, as we fuel the angst of the people we criticize with our frustration. I've got hope for Rath because he strikes me as a tumblroni, and would probably back down if he screws up instead of doubling down again and again. /pol has spoken
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rotten
staff puppet account
Somewhere at the foot of the Shield Wall
Posts: 36
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Post by rotten on Nov 11, 2015 12:59:50 GMT -5
I think a lot of this criticism is inherently self-defeating.
The best way to get staff to enable the world-changing ideas that PCs want to do is to let the staff be world-changers themselves. Staffers should be playing this game, too, and the demise of Arm has coincided with the atrophy of its lower-level staff.
The only way to let players be actors is to let staff be actors, too. It's common cause, and that is the core of communication.
I do believe we can advise staff to an extent, and for events like this, I think we can learn from the past :
A. Reactionary responses to player actions are bad. Decide what forces are going to be applied to an event beforehand and extrapolate reasonable responses from there. Dropping in a hoard of NPCs just because the PCs suddenly find themselves at a disadvantage is a big no-no.
B. When planning these major RP plots, describe them in terms of the forces at work, rather than events that must happen. Because we all know that when someone focuses on the end rather than the means, bad things happen. Mmkay?
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Nov 11, 2015 13:39:25 GMT -5
B. When planning these major RP plots, describe them in terms of the forces at work, rather than events that must happen. Because we all know that when someone focuses on the end rather than the means, bad things happen. Mmkay? Well stated.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Nov 11, 2015 13:54:59 GMT -5
I view this as a direct response to the complaint that, since Tuluk is closed, there's no "alternative" to Allanak. The alternative will be the ArabetSeik or whatever it is. That's nifty.
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Nov 11, 2015 14:41:32 GMT -5
Red Storm?! Why does everyone forget RSV? It's a lovely place where everyone minds their own. Is your neighbor a niliaz? Who gives a fuck, keep your hood up!
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Nov 11, 2015 14:58:41 GMT -5
Red Storm?! Why does everyone forget RSV? It's a lovely place where everyone minds their own. Is your neighbor a niliaz? Who gives a fuck, keep your hood up! Shhh! First rule of RSV is that you don't talk about RSV.
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Post by sirra on Nov 11, 2015 17:16:07 GMT -5
You typically don't get a forum devoted to ripping on you by being only one or the other. for the love of god this is not a forum devoted to nyr or ripping on nyr. please dont post things like this because it only strokes staff egos and feeds into the persecution complex. Meh. It was tongue in cheek. Point being, it takes a special blend of arrogance and incompetence to earn nearly universal opprobrium. Most people will give you the benefit of the doubt for a very long time. I'm sure there are quite a few posters here who could still swing one way or another on Nyr himself if he suddenly made some teary post saying he was gonna come and do better. Having just played in the role that's being advertised for (and having done so several times before) qualifies me to say that sirra's doomsday postulation is a crock of shit. The role will be fun for people that are interested in playing it. Like I said, staffers like Calavera, Rath, and Mordigg put dozens of hours into adding more content and docs to the tribe/role. If Rath came to these boards and posted nothing more than a friendly little hello, and some basic acknowledgement and engagement with the people that feel safer and more comfortable posting on these boards than the GDB, I would take that crock of shit and eat it. That would prove at least one impressive and significant divergence from Nyr and would be real, genuine cause for hope. So long as he feels the same way about these boards (and by extension, the portion of the playerbase that prefers them) as Nyr, Nessalin and the rest, who think this forum is a cheater board (SO laughable, as there is virtually nothing on this board that isn't Newbie 101 in plain English) populated mostly by hacked alt accounts managed by delerak rather than real people with real and legitimate misgivings...Then I see little reason for enthusiasm. I mean. Unless you were already happy with Armageddon, and just wanted less snark from a producer. Then you're set.
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