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Post by sirra on Nov 4, 2015 23:23:27 GMT -5
Oh bah. I didnt know you got banned. I disagree with most of your posts and I think you're replacing reason with crudeness and distaste, but you were a vocal opposer in a discussion that requires vocal opposition. Read my complaint to Nessalin, and how he responded, and tell me if being polite and diffident would have achieved better results. Keep in mind, I quit several months ago, precisely because of that interaction with Nessalin (and Nyr's subsequent defense of Nessalin). So having no more attachment to the carrot of being allowed to keep playing, I had no reason not to be brutally honest. In any case, I don't even think what I posted was in the player retention thread was that remarkable. I offhandedly called Lizzie a diehard and wondered why she was even participating when she was clearly well satisfied with the direction of the game - and as Desertman said - that was the excuse they needed. It's not even the first time Lizzie has been called out on it. Well. So be it. If they're so fearful of blunt honesty, however distasteful they might find it, they would have found some other excuse eventually. Because while I was never going to cuss someone out or insult them on the GDB forum, I was going to speak the truth. I think Lizzie's behavior in that thread was despicable, and she deserved to be called out. That to me wasn't an insult. That was pushing back against her continual attempts to derail the thread and turn everything into an assault on staff. Yes. I have an aggressive persona here on the shadow boards. But grumble talked like a cat. Bitterflashback didn't use grammar. We all did what we need to do, to create that separation. I simply stopped caring. 99% of the time, I was perfectly courteous as clearsighted. Although clearly, following that interaction with Nessalin, I became much more jaded and blunt.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 23:26:22 GMT -5
I think Lizzie's behavior in that thread was despicable, and she deserved to be called a cuntsmackFTFY
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 23:37:20 GMT -5
So what you're saying is that it needs someone qualified in basic interpersonal relations. Hmm interesting. Maybe a bit of a sidebar to the discussion but wouldn't it make sense if staff at games like Arm didn't all have mod privileges? Being a mod should be an right earned, and even those that run the game might not be qualified to handle it, give it to someone who knows and is qualified to manage an online community presence/forums. Preach. ST's don't get to put in npcs/items/rooms without the red tape dance, I think you should add forum posts to the list, until they've showed that they're not raging assholes.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Nov 4, 2015 23:54:26 GMT -5
lol I wish they would shut down the forums. Not only would it force those sycophantic to defend their opinions on much more relatively neutral sites (like here and Optional Realities), but it would also frame the debate and discussion away from such suppression and audacious mismanagement.
Also, look at SoI. Can you say dead game? The tipping point, as far as I can tell, was when they shut down the official forums. I think Arm's staff is self-aware enough to not follow in the footsteps of its potentially largest competitor at some point in the past.
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Post by jcarter on Nov 5, 2015 9:23:42 GMT -5
I swear sometimes I toss around the idea that not having a forums is better for games. Forums can be a beautiful thing. It just requires someone like jcarter to be the moderator. it doesn't require someone like me, it just takes someone who isn't going to obsess over people's posting and institute arbitrary rules over what is/isn't flaming. gdb has this culture where there's a handful of people that hide behind baiting snark and shitposting because they know if it ever gets escalated the other person'll get banned, and they don't have to worry about getting taken down a peg because the post will be quickly deleted and the offender removed. and if people don't get banned, you see the same people having year-long snarky grudges against each other with cliques and everything. it's pathetic and off-putting to most people. now im not saying this forum is free of that, but i think the slapfighting that happens here generally tends to resolve itself and not spillover. people get the chance to vent and get it out of their system without some weird mother-like figure wagging their finger and saying "now now keep it civil or else youre going to timeout!". ive seen some things here that i think have crossed the line and had to resist moderating, but generally the board corrects itself and people mellow out. considering that members here include people too "wild" or "abusive" or w/e who are banned from the gdb i think this experiment in barely moderated boards is working out well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 9:44:54 GMT -5
lol, you only have asshats calling each other cuntsmacks and the occasional wannabe hipster nazi.
but re boards: just don't let the prison guards IG be the prison guards on the boards; butts will get hurt.
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Post by sirra on Nov 6, 2015 7:35:32 GMT -5
I was really hoping calk would come to this thread and psychoanalyze my staff complaint that was handled by Nessalin, so he could use his mastery of psychology and communications ability, to let me know where being polite or impolite to staff garners a different tenor of response. He had so much to say in the other thread. Staff attitudes towards anything that isn't purely laudatory seems to oscillate between dismissive contempt in private to a sweaty-palmed, white-knuckled grip on their censorship powers on the public GDB.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Nov 9, 2015 0:06:03 GMT -5
I swear sometimes I toss around the idea that not having a forums is better for games. Gotta be honest: I agonized over this when considering making a MUD. It's not an issue to be taken lightly. @oldtwink touched on this earlier, explaining the pointlessness of watching tone, but he didn't get into why. Most people on the GDB, save for the sycophants, build up a negative opinion of the staff from basically watching them take a piss on people with contrary opinions or complaints. If the player is polite, sometimes the staff slap the players in the face with their collective dick for a while first, until the abused player finally lashes out and "earns" that golden shower. Lately they've put a little bowtie on their dick. You know... to make it classy. I doubt many players viewed the staff as any less hostile or deserving of mistrust because of this step, but it has been passed off as progress. This has been going on for... what, a decade now? The staff have created an atmosphere where any player who doesn't already have a long, positive relationship with the staff who posts contrary opinions or complaints with anything less than an opening salvo of crotch-punches is an idiot. When players open with hostility it's because they've seen the worthlessness of any other approach with the staff. It's a waste of time and effort to do anything other than beat the staff senseless publicly because that is the only outcome other than silent withdrawal that their culture of abuse allows. sirra: Nessalin's advice about keeping a copy of your post available for an hour "just in case" should have been the highlight of your response to everyone on page 1 who was calling you too caustic. Keep a fucking copy of every post in case someone accidentally replaces it with snark is supposed to be wisdom from fucking heaven, passed down by thy Lord thy Ness?! Seriously?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 0:10:20 GMT -5
if they sacked ness you might get a coder that codes to replace him.
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Post by sirra on Nov 9, 2015 0:43:40 GMT -5
Then maybe that coder could steal the codebase, and they could open up another game, and we'd see Armageddon become a ghost town in about a month and a half.
It's no surprise to me why Armageddon doesn't have competition. As we've seen on this board, it takes a mountain of man hours and a ton of soul-searing data entry to even get a decent MUD off the ground. It's not really hard work persay. But it is numbing work. You can go into it with all the enthusiasm in the world, and after like two weeks, it's very easy to be like 'fuck this shit', no matter what your passion. Not to mention, if you're going to get this project off the ground and run it well...Then you're either like in high school, or you've got other shit going on in your life that precludes devoting a thousand hours to getting a MUD on the scale of Armageddon started.
Armageddon came about at a time in the 90s, where you had a lot of people working on text games, and it was like the 'thing', which probably crested right before WoW.
You can't give much credit to building Armageddon to the current staff. They've mostly tweaked it. I read somewhere on the GDB that even Morg doesn't entirely understand how the chargen code works. I mean. They haven't even done much building. You, or I, or ANYONE reading this board, could be taught how to code an NPC monster, or an area, in about 15 minutes. You could really have a 12 year old do it. It's not that hard or time consuming. If you REALLY wanted to, you could probably knock out a hundred rooms in one day, and have it all be set up and working perfectly. Meanwhile, Armageddon's current staff have probably closed off more rooms once accessible in the game than they've ever added, since like 1999.
So basically, the current management of Armageddon largely inherited it from those who invested a lot of time and effort into it when text games were briefly in vogue. This same crew already tried to build their own MUD. Arm 2.0 was an atrocity, whereas after like 7 years, they probably spent more time moderating the discussion dedicated to it than working on it. Let that sink in. Armageddon's current staff would be incapable of launching a MUD, if they didn't already have this one.
You combine this with the fact that people like Armageddon. It's a fun game. The only thing that makes it unfun, is the dumb cuntsmack management which Nyr, Adhira and Nessalin have so much to answer for.
All this combined makes it extremely easy for people to either A) just stop playing MUDs and walk away or B) Eat their shit for as long as you can stand it, until you're so burnt out and jaded, you wouldn't play anywhere anyways.
I'd wager that about 80% of the playerbase (possibly more) would be overjoyed at playing somewhere most of the current staff involved, and which was more in the spirit of the game's pre-Nyr golden age.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jjhardy on Nov 9, 2015 13:55:38 GMT -5
And Sirra, I understood your first post. I think the aggressive manner you had towards Lizzie warranted a time out, or an email saying cool it please. I don't think you should've been banned for it permanently though. It wasn't that bad. Fuck Lizzie, hate that bitch
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Post by Procrastination on Nov 23, 2015 20:15:49 GMT -5
I JUST read this whole thing, and I can't stop laughing. Not because sorta, the cuntsmacking, the debauchery, or the oppressive regime flags being waved, but because jcarter called us basically an autonomous, self moderating board though no one has the power. For the record, I think the shadow boards are basically three sorts. The extremists, the jaded but functioning, and the laid back sorts.
Sirra may talk shit, and be a bit cranky at times, but he's actually really mellow by default. I spent all day yesterday telling him to get his imaginary cock out of the way of his arguments in regards to skilling up, and then all night having a chill sort of kick back going on in the Discord. We will welcome you. We will also tell you when you're being a cunt smack. Then devolve into a little civil war and back to peace after a bit. I love it. At times, half the fun of Arm is chatting about it, for me.
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yoashi
Clueless newb
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Post by yoashi on Nov 24, 2015 19:47:53 GMT -5
Nessalin once gave me the 3rd degree because I had played a Jihaen Templar, and they sent up another roll call for one and I was debating giving it another go so I was accessing the protected documents to study up again. He insisted that he knew it was me who was giving the password out to people, he had proof, he was going to do this, and that, and etc etc.
Surprise surprise. It wasn't me. Never an apology, I was nice and didn't freak out at all. I kept calm as I could. People only don't mind Nessalin because he's their big stick. He doesn't give a fuck if the game dies or not.
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