Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 18:14:02 GMT -5
All the houses on Arm are totally pointless. One deals in slaves even though you can't play a PC slave or even realistically obtain an NPC one. Another has "selling wine" as one of its primary characteristics. One has a focus on military but takes no part in any of that outside of HRPTs, and even then it's a token contribution. Oash's dealings with mages is perhaps the only thing that has the potential to lead to anything meaningful, but even this is limited in scope.
Merchant houses fare little better, with none of them having a purpose that actually ties into gameplay in any way. Crafting is a joke and most people specifically want things that can't be crafted because the uncraftable stuff is rare and interesting. Hunting is a joke because nobody needs the shit you can hunt, except maybe to branch from leatherworking and tanning, although that can be done with storebought skins in unlimited supply. And what's Kurac's military actually doing? As with Tor, nothing happens that warrants its existence.
If Armageddon were a game that came out today, it would get lambasted for how poorly the roles match the gameplay. Playing a hunter is meaningless because all clans get unlimited free food. Playing a soldier is meaningless because there are no wars and virtually no crime. Playing a merchant is meaningless because there's no use for 95% of crafted objects, NPC shops stock full sets of adequate equipment, and there's almost nothing to spend money on in this game beyond whatever armor and weapons you want. Playing a criminal is meaingless for much the same reason, and because there's no demand for things like smugglers and hired thieves.
There's practically nothing you can play on Arm that actually fulfills a purpose that matters. You have to pretend it all, suspending your disbelief at every turn. Imagine if the following minor changes were put into effect:
- Clans with hunting divisions no longer get free food, or at least nothing appealing
- Crafted armor and weapons are a level above what can be bought from NPC shops
- Orders for uncraftable objects are limited to non-armor/weapon items (or just fucking eliminated altogether)
- Nobles can now sell NPC slaves to PCs of sponsored roles or PCs who have had a slave owner request approved
A few similar changes could be applied to other noble houses, like renting out merchant stalls or something, but the point is that it would set into motion an entire chain of demand. You'd need hunters to feed clans and provide crafting materials, and you'd need merchants to craft things. These merchants can in turn spend their money on something of actual use, much of which would fall into the realm of what noble houses provide. This massive increase in business and competition would create myriad opportunities for criminal roleplay, which in turn would jump-start law enforcement.
The solutions are so straight-forward, but they always give the old "it's easier said than done" cop-out and act like it's completely impossible to do anything about this shit. Even if the *perfect* system isn't to be found, the current game design is so completely lacking on all fronts that anything would be better. There is no role you can play on Arm that doesn't feel underwhelming and contrived, and for many of them, it would be trivial to implement something to give those roles more purpose.
But of course, this would put meaningful decisions into the hands of the players, and we can't have that.
|
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Oct 28, 2015 9:48:35 GMT -5
Well guess what? For every infamous templar out there who was central to some major plot, there were dozens who basically checked out after a few RL weeks, and who staff had hardly any time for. We hold these truths to be self evident. With how bad the templar burn-out can be, I can't imagine the Noble burn-out. Poor Delirium. Like I said. If you enjoy mudsex, or flouncing around being KAH-RAZYEE and relationship/romance arcs, then playing a noble can be fun for certain people. But if you're interested in power politics and ruthlessly exerting your authority, then it totally isn't. Most people who are attracted to the power politics/ruthless authority RP angle have long since learned there are better ways to acquire it. In fact, you will get much more respect and attention as a sergeant in the Byn or GMH, than as a noble. @oldtwink As I've noted before, of the three major Allanaki houses...Only one actually gets to RP according to its modus operandi. If you're a Borsail, you will have more or less nothing to do with muls/gladiators/slave raiding except in the most intangible and unrewarding sense possible. If you're a Tor, you are basically fucked because it's a horrifically mismanaged House that had maybe one moment of shining glory. I forget the guy's name, but current docs/prohibitions make it impossible to model him (no Scorpions, sorry). So Tor is supposed to have this huge pull/influence on the military, and to often be in charge of things...But the templars/militia clan will just tell you to fuck off. Only Oash gets to experience their House's modus operandi to any real extent. The current setup of being able to have one or two aides is perfectly suited to the Oash noble getting to cherry pick one or two gickers. This gives them an 'in' to all of the crazy magick plottage. I remember on the forum, what's-her-face, the lady in charge of the Allanaki noble houses was all like, 'THAT ISN'T TRUE, NOBLES ARE IN A GREAT PLACE, BORSAIL AND TOR JUST DON'T HAVE GOOD RPers. LOOK AT ALL OF OASH'S ACTIVITY!" Then she proceeded to list all the cool things Borsail could be doing, like developing a new breed of mount (which was the least vapid/unrealistic example). It was so hard to not roll one's eyes and patiently explain, "Look, you numb dunce. Oash is the only noble house that is even able to RP according to its docs. They get mage f-me pets. Mage f-me pets account for like half the population of Allanak (the other half being Bynners). OF COURSE they're going to be more active." If Oash weren't allowed to have PC mages as employees, and all their mage aides had to be considered VNPCs, and that furthermore, an Oash lowering themselves to bang a mage was considered taboo, that House would be as dead as Nessalin's eyes when he jerks off to the facebook pics of female players that 'friended' him. Oash nobles get to hit the ground running, and with no needed assistance from staff, RP exactly what their house is all about. Borsail get to go about an incredibly convoluted, no doubt half-decade long agony of working with staff behind the scenes to breed a new kind of war beetle. I can just imagine the typical email exchange: You: Hey, here are all my ideas for breeding a better war beetle. Staffer: Ummm...I don't really wanna do this cause it's boring as shit, so, uh, send me twenty logs of you jerking off the war beetle and trying to get it to mate with an inix - which I'll never actually read - and then, uh, in like, 8 months, I'll tell you it requires magic, with the nonsensical justification that this cockpunch somehow spurs RP for you - but truly serves just to give me a buffer of hoping you die or stop playing before I have to actually code a new mount. That would take like 15 minutes! You: But I don't want to solo emote jerking off a war beetle for 8 RL months. Staffer: ...You're still here? OH MY GOD BEING STAFF IS SUCH HARD WORK, I BETTER GO PITY POST ON RAT WHERE PEOPLE CAN SAY HOW MUCH THEY LOVE ME FOR ALL MY HARD WORK. |
|
bastilleangel
Clueless newb
Wielding the Power of Love and Investigation Since 2013
Posts: 119 
|
Post by bastilleangel on Oct 28, 2015 10:05:57 GMT -5
Mallor Tor? (I believe that's the correct spelling.)
It's a good point, that Borsail and Tor don't function as they supposedly do in the game-world. It's a sterling example of the rp schizophrenia one encounters in Arm.
What is the current rule on noble house recruitment? I remember Anthinius Oash having a small army of minions. Are the houses seriously staff-capped at two? I hope not!
|
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Oct 28, 2015 10:11:43 GMT -5
Mallor Tor? (I believe that's the correct spelling.) It's a good point, that Borsail and Tor don't function as they supposedly do in the game-world. It's a sterling example of the rp schizophrenia one encounters in Arm. What is the current rule on noble house recruitment? I remember Anthinius Oash having a small army of minions. Are the houses seriously staff-capped at two? I hope not! From what I recall, they've been capped at two for a long time. And yes, Mallor Tor sounds right. Guy was wicked. But there is absolutely no way in hell you could repeat what he did, according to current docs/rules. And IIRC, there was some drama around staff screwing even him over. I just mention him because he's the only time the Tor were ever remotely treated like Tor should be. And I think, if we're being fair, that had mostly to do with templar PCs at the time setting the example. I can't imagine a templar PC showing deference to any noble these days. |
|
bastilleangel
Clueless newb
Wielding the Power of Love and Investigation Since 2013
Posts: 119
|
Post by bastilleangel on Oct 28, 2015 11:16:43 GMT -5
Oi. Because nothing says "powerful noble house" like two aides. *facepalm*
There was an era in there where you had Samos (a red robe, which wouldn't be allowed now), Mallor Tor (who was the best-played Tor I've ever seen, and apparently met a bad staff-end), and Anthinius Oash (who was eventually force-stored O.o). That same "character synergy" couldn't happen now. I mean, these guys were scary; you minded your P's and Q's when they walked into a room! And yeah, Samos was probably a staff avatar - but it worked!
Does anyone have the Mallor Tor story?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 11:21:01 GMT -5
Samos wasn't a staff avatar. I don't know if the player later joined staff, but not at the time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 11:25:14 GMT -5
I wrote up a big post, but I'll just say this.
The cap on Oashi mages is not just a couple. Unless something has changed very recently, it's six. Add the two mundane servant/aide types they're allowed to employ and you have potentially 8 uniformed, clanned PCs, 6 of which are magickers, a resource that is not allowed to be employed by pretty much anyone else. (This gives them the authority to hire FOUR TIMES what other noble Houses can!) Not only does Oash do this without political consequences, this leads them to be the most powerful and respected of the Houses by far. While other nobles may receive a facsimile of respect, Oash is actually somewhat feared. Oash can offer the templarate a lot more than other Houses can: magickal artifacts, secrets overheard by their Drovians, items collected from around the world by Whirans, etc.
Despite all this, we're constantly told on the GDB that Oash is not the "magicker House," and that magick is just one of the many things Oash dabbles in. I think it's funny that Oash gets to bring their minor hobby to life with a full retinue of 6 mage PCs, while the enormous slave empire that is their rivals' primary business is 100% virtual. Not only that, but Oash gets to do their wine thing too. Who cares if their Elites are closed? They've got it made.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098 
|
Post by punished ppurg on Oct 28, 2015 12:31:56 GMT -5
One of the bigger things I saw was the obvious favoritism some nobles got from staff opposed to others. This was even admitted on the gdb round-about as "some players are more fun to interact with than others" by one of the staff leads.
Where one noble PC would have their idea shot down, the next one might be able to pull it off in spades, all because the overwhelming insurmountable effort required by staff to build a few rooms seemed less due to their favoritism.
So if you plan on apping a noble, prepare to kiss ass like a pro. If you don't, your ideas will be ignored, or worse, the staff will make the world "come alive" in order to kill you and replace you with someone they would be having more fun with. . . Someone who doesn't make outlandish demands like requests to animate the vnpc world to back up their plots or some nonsense like that.
I'm very bitter because I saw this happen to two nobles while I was playing, and when they were replaced, their efforts were swept away by some staff pet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 12:45:29 GMT -5
As with any leadership role, it all depends on the staff you're working under. If you have naysaying or absentee staff, playing a noble can feel very discouraging. And yes, even more so when you wonder how it is that the same staff member you feel is neglecting you seems to be supporting a peer's every wacky idea.
In my tenure as a leader, I had FANTASTIC staff, I had MIA staff, I had struggling noob staff, I had (what I saw as) unsupportive staff. It always must have seemed that I had no goals or plots because often I would start something up, the staff would rotate, and the new guy would tell me to hold off while he got his foot in the door, or say that I should wait until some big staff-run plot arc is over, or simply show no interest. Often the problems were from the IG side, too, as I struggled to find the correct PCs to do certain jobs. By the time I'd find those PCs, the opportunity had passed. Maybe if I was able to clan more PCs it would have been easier to find and keep people for certain purposes, but it seemed like everyone I wanted for my tasks was getting either killed or hired by others who had a higher cap.
The role was most fun when it felt real. That requires good, active staff who is willing to animate and animate convincingly. That kind of staff certainly exists and I absolutely cannot praise them enough, but when they get rotated out, you're not guaranteed a decent replacement.
At the end of my PC's run I dissolved into that kind of nonsense relationship drama RP because there was just nothing else going on. It could not have been more boring. I actually noticed staff reaching out to me to keep me interested, but it was too late. I'd already burnt out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 16:11:11 GMT -5
Samos wasn't a staff avatar. I don't know if the player later joined staff, but not at the time. Samos's player had disagreements with staff (like many) and to my knowledge quit playing hasn't returned. |
|
bastilleangel
Clueless newb
Wielding the Power of Love and Investigation Since 2013
Posts: 119
|
Post by bastilleangel on Oct 28, 2015 16:47:18 GMT -5
Samos wasn't a staff avatar. I don't know if the player later joined staff, but not at the time. Oh, neat! That makes that era that much cooler in retrospect. =) |
|
bastilleangel
Clueless newb
Wielding the Power of Love and Investigation Since 2013
Posts: 119
|
Post by bastilleangel on Oct 28, 2015 16:58:49 GMT -5
Samos wasn't a staff avatar. I don't know if the player later joined staff, but not at the time. Samos's player had disagreements with staff (like many) and to my knowledge quit playing hasn't returned. Bleh. Not a good sigh when long-term, strong rp players abandon ship for non-RL reasons. Interesting that Oash's cap is different from the others. Personally, I don't think hard caps should exist at all, but rather be more of a "you're drawing too much attention to yourself" creature. Better yet, take Bitter's idea of setting up a rival if a leader starts inching into the dreaded-by-staff Too Successful range. |
|
delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
|
Post by delerak on Oct 29, 2015 23:49:27 GMT -5
The turnover rate is absolutely insane. Someone should do the numbers.
|
|
delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
|
Post by delerak on Oct 30, 2015 21:51:07 GMT -5
Does anybody know if they have to post for nobles on the announcements or do some nobles silently appear in game as sponsored PCs for staffers?
|
|
mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
Posts: 335
|
Post by mood on Oct 31, 2015 0:05:34 GMT -5
that House would be as dead as Nessalin's eyes when he jerks off to the facebook pics of female players that 'friended' him. lol you shouldn't have buried that sick burn in a massive wall of tldr imo |
|
