Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 10:21:34 GMT -5
It's even more acute when you look at the month-by-month numbers. In a handful of months they plummet from 280ish to 200ish. It's actually worse still if one considers the actual online numbers, because they've dropped by far more than the ~30% that the unique logins have shrunk by. This spring and summer, it was entirely common to see over 70 players online at peak, and sometimes even 80 on Friday and Sunday where it's always a bit higher. Now it's down to 25-30, and 40 on Fri/Sun. That's half of their numbers lost in about four months. Since the unique logins don't reflect this, one can conclude that many players just don't stay online even if they haven't quit the game entirely. Even in lean times, Armageddon has always managed a peak of at least 50, excepting that brief spell of communal disillusionment after the Reborn announcement. That's an astonishing decline for a game that has historically been so stable. Be careful with the month-by-month numbers - there was a massive spike in interest when staff closed Tuluk in the Spring, and so the drop from Spring looks way way way massive. RRR's link gives you a pretty good idea of this, but you can also trace it out in the 'updates' page. However, you can't deny the drop is still massive - 25%. That's not seasonal. It's the same two week stretch over the past five years. I'd agree, though, that the unique logins don't quite capture the level of staleness inside the game, and things on the ground are far far far worse, but that enters into the anecdotal and the preaching-to-the-choir level, e.g., little to no interest in PC plots, vindictive and nasty staff actions, the insane promotion of the worst to even more powerful positions, the gap between player expectations and staff vision, dull over-the-top staff railroad plots, the survival of the weakest - the current bunch of long-lived PCs are so fucking dull, no doubt out of necessity. Arm has history. It's why it hurts all of us to see its current staff driving it into the ground. A lot of these problems have been around for a while, but -something- has accelerated it, and we all know what that something is. |
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fist
staff puppet account
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Post by fist on Oct 12, 2015 10:46:10 GMT -5
From what I'm hearing and reading, I'm reminded of the fairly recent fall of a very long-running MU. The declining and jaded playerbase suffering from an ever-widening schism between themselves and staff - which has only grown wider and wider over time - is resulting in the same sorts of things. Players are either simply leaving, playing minimally to protect their time investment, or they're playing with the mindset that they just want to avoid staff interaction at all costs. These felt like signs of The End where I'd been playing, and from what I've read, I'm seeing Armageddon following that same blueprint.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Armageddon was closing its doors in the near future. Though I rarely have time for roleplay anymore, it does make me a little sad. I grew up with that game.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Oct 12, 2015 12:55:31 GMT -5
It makes me sad too, because I can really feel the apathy now more than ever. Maybe the new batch of imms will try to breathe a little magic back into the game. I can see them becoming quickly disillusioned though when they begin to realize that every animation they want to do requires a convoluted loop of paperwork to be stamped and filed.
Someone told me recently that they'd heard from another player (friend of a friend of a friend type scenario, so take it with however much salt you require) that one imm kept getting in trouble a year or two back for animating too much. If true that's just maddening. Does anyone here ever see any animations? Ever? And now there's one guy who does it TOO much!?
Whatever world plots currently exist are so slow moving it's like you can just feel the whole thing ready to flat line at any moment. So much opportunity missed at every turn. I just don't understand it. I didn't approve of the decision to close tuluk down because of the individuals handling it but done by literally anyone else and I could see myself saying hey this might work, let's give it a shot. But what an unmissed opportunity this is now. Tuluk could be the new kryl. Making an entire city a hostile npc has so much potential. But it's just so much easier to let it sit unused and pretend it never existed, just as it's easy to pretend the many, many mistakes which led to its downfall in the first place don't exist. Like a kid covering her eyes in her bedroom at night. I can't see now, monster's gone!
Wake up, armageddon mud. Do something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 13:05:27 GMT -5
As I've posted elsewhere, I blame the removal of full sorcerers + the closure of Tuluk. Either one of those things might've been okay on their own, but together they've caused a pretty palpable loss of tension. There are no supervillains anymore, no Big Bads. As distant as those two aspects of the game might have seemed, their influence was still felt. Now who's going to be the bad guy? Random raiders? Pickpockets? Obnoxious lone rogue mages?
I'm not saying the new sorcs aren't extremely powerful, but they aren't the larger-than-life, looming antagonists of yesteryear. I love the idea of a ranger with movement magick, but I haven't heard so much as a whisper about sorcery since the changes went in, because they're just running around being badass rangers with movement magick rather than consolidating power and wielding it in terrifying ways. And while the war always seemed a bit artificial, knowing there were PC nobles, templars, and commoners running around living their lives in an enemy city state made a big difference, psychologically, at least for me. Now Tuluk might as well not exist at all.
Where's the grand, overarching conflict? I guess we're just supposed to wait until staff feels like running a melodramatic RPT to even feel the faintest suggestion of such a thing.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Oct 12, 2015 13:44:20 GMT -5
I don't subscribe to arm's current notion of addition by subtraction but at the same time the game really is too big for itself. What's the point if you have all these clans and iso tribes that each have only 1 or 2 pcs? There are players who will say why can't I just play in whatever underplayed region of the game I want and be left alone? But that isn't what the arm experience is supposed to be about. You're SUPPOSED to have people constantly all up in your business trying to tap into whatever resources you've got. It SHOULD feel crowded. You're SUPPOSED to feel hedged in and like everywhere you turn there's someone after your shit. This is a world where entire groups of people will murder other entire groups of people for something as simple as a puddle of water in the sand. Because even a puddle of water is hard to come by. So if some reduction pools pcs together and allows that feeling of strife and a contest for resources to take place, then that's great. But that's not what we're seeing. Instead it's been a slow but deliberate removal of the very spirit of arm (such as the sorcerers stated above). Ambition has been removed from the game and that is the biggest crime of all. I point back to the following quote in the helpfiles, which are so clearly no longer true or part of the modern day arm experience:
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Post by RogueRougeRanger on Oct 12, 2015 13:49:57 GMT -5
I don't subscribe to arm's current notion of addition by subtraction but at the same time the game really is too big for itself. What's the point if you have all these clans and iso tribes that each have only 1 or 2 pcs? There are players who will say why can't I just play in whatever underplayed region of the game I want and be left alone? But that isn't what the arm experience is supposed to be about. You're SUPPOSED to have people constantly all up in your business trying to tap into whatever resources you've got. It SHOULD feel crowded. You're SUPPOSED to feel hedged in and like everywhere you turn there's someone after your shit. This is a world where entire groups of people will murder other entire groups of people for something as simple as a puddle of water in the sand. Because even a puddle of water is hard to come by. So if some reduction pools pcs together and allows that feeling of strife and a contest for resources to take place, then that's great. But that's not what we're seeing. Instead it's been a slow but deliberate removal of the very spirit of arm (such as the sorcerers stated above). Ambition has been removed from the game and that is the biggest crime of all. I point back to the following quote in the helpfiles, which are so clearly no longer true or part of the modern day arm experience: +lots Arm used to be about the RP and the sandbox. But so much has been taken away, so that's no longer the case. Sorcs and Tuluk were only the latest, because before there were slave roles or the Glass Ceiling or Kuraci Outriders or Kadian Falcons or much more. I'm sure that there is plenty of fun still to be had on Arm. But what made it great and made it fun for me is gone. From looking at the numbers, I suspect many other people share my opinion, sadly. What's most sad, to me, is that it didn't need to be this way. |
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Oct 12, 2015 14:01:56 GMT -5
I will also add that the changes done in recent years are boring, transparent, and completed over night. Old tuluk was given the ax because it was a poorly designed city with convoluted roads. The decision to fix this was OOCly motivated but the changes included a huge storyline which lasted for years (and years) of real time. And unless you happened to know the OOC reason why old tuluk was being destroyed, you probably just saw it as a fun story to be part of. But the admin replacing older admin apparently weren't in the know (or in the "give a shit") because when they designed new tuluk it came equipped with.....you guessed it....convoluted roads. But even that was fine with me because the storytelling that brought us there was long and ongoing and contained depth.
It was decided that the two orders of tuluki templars had to go because it was sexist for males only to be in charge of combat matters and females only in charge of mystery. I don't know if I agree but fine. However when I saw the change take place it happened a) over night and b) in a manner that made it so obvious it was being done for ooc reasons only, rather than weaving it into the story of tuluk. Again, when old tuluk fell you might never have guessed the real, behind the scenes reason. It was painted to look like a story, rather than what it really was which was to disguise a blemish.
Then the chosen houses went. Overnight. Negean disappeared just like that. In a storyline that absolutely nobody was a part of. The byn was hired to take down a house in "the most unprecedented use of shadow artistry ever", according to the arm history page. Gads! It's insulting how little imagination had been put into it. And that's what you have in the post-halaster, post-sanvean era. Uninspired players run by a host of uninspired imms.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 15:06:06 GMT -5
 I know Fall isn't over yet, but the '[]' is the data point. Armageddon mud is standing here, bleeding profusely. I'm curious: What happened in Winter/Spring 2013? For the lazy:  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 19:37:32 GMT -5
I think they had an HRPT and a huge recruitment drive around then. It temporarily bolstered their numbers by a significant amount. However, they were already haemorrhaging veterans at that point and the higher numbers didn't really persist. That was the time when they truly started to lose the bulk of their established players, the ones who care about the quality of the game. Armageddon's roleplaying environment had become so awful by then, and the situation so irreparable, that many of the best players gave up. The sheer numbers didn't look too grim because they'd got some new newbies, but those don't add very much to the quality of the game's roleplay. That's when I realized that Armageddon had come to consist mostly of going-through-the-motions players who never make anything happen.
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Post by latrineswimmer on Oct 12, 2015 21:20:52 GMT -5
I do enjoy statistics.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Oct 13, 2015 23:01:03 GMT -5
I'm curious: What happened in Winter/Spring 2013? Christmas happened for the first time ever, to listen to how the staff spun it.
Asanadas, worried about immortals hurting the playerbase, goes on top mud sites to dissuade future players from joining the game by posting his hatemail and thereby hurting the playerbase. #logic Just because you can blatantly misrepresent the obvious without your browser preventing you from posting doesn't mean people won't immediately notice how wrong you are. If he believes the staff hurt players then preventing new players from joining prevents them from being hurt. It's your unstated opinion that players won't be hurt that would make this illogical for Asan if Asan believed it himself. You believe he doesn't because you said as much. #debugging Now it seems the majority of what I see is people poking a bear with a stick and acting surprised and betrayed when it bites them. Given that Asan/Purg is one person, and our population is more than 1.49 people, even if he was surprised you'd still be objectively full of shit for making this statement. Call me a staff pet, but you're so off the mark it's not even funny. You're a hyperbolic contrarian who will never back his comments with supporting facts. That and you're coming off as a smug, stupid asshole who overestimates his intelligence. On the plus side, at least I'm calling you what you are instead of a pet. So there's that.
I still maintain if there were something going on in clans, more people would join them. No clan I've ever been in has really suffered for minions, it's just what happens with the minions when they join. If they had an active story going on, characters wouldn't bounce in and out of them so much. QFT, though I'd add that if clans weren't a tool to limit activity people would join them.
From what I'm hearing and reading, I'm reminded of the fairly recent fall of a very long-running MU. The declining and jaded playerbase suffering from an ever-widening schism between themselves and staff - which has only grown wider and wider over time - is resulting in the same sorts of things. Players are either simply leaving, playing minimally to protect their time investment, or they're playing with the mindset that they just want to avoid staff interaction at all costs. These felt like signs of The End where I'd been playing, and from what I've read, I'm seeing Armageddon following that same blueprint. If you don't mind sharing, which MU was that? |
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Post by glacierflux on Oct 16, 2015 16:26:30 GMT -5
I wonder when Armageddon will actually close its doors. it seems inevitable. it has to end someday.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 16:31:57 GMT -5
I think the next data point from mudstats will be out Oct. 19th. I suspect it might rise just from the interest we've generated here in the shit status of the mud.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Nov 4, 2015 22:30:11 GMT -5
Hey bad dudes. I don't really expect a load of people to have acted on my word to not play in the AoD, and I don't really expect my word to have further influence now. With that said,
The core issue I had with the AoD was that the staff members directly over it created a scenario that made a mockery of the setting that I enjoyed; because of that issue, three players had their characters prematurely ended based on that screw-up. The three staff members who I feel were responsible for the mishandling were Cavaticus, Talia, and Nyr. I believe they misframed the situation to their fellow staff members and, I'm sure, lied in order to wrongfully uphold their pitifully poor administrative decision. Looking at these three now... they've all left active staffing, and, although Nyr is betted on to return further down the line when he feels his failures have been forgotten, the core issue of my warning to not play in the AoD has been dealt with. These staff members no longer have the opportunity to fail the people in this clan, and so I feel my warning can be cautiously lifted.
I really enjoyed the AoD when I played in it... maybe one day I'll get to be in that clan again. But I recognize now I've done the players in that clan a disservice by perhaps poisoning potential players away from them. Also, I've recently had an interaction with the new AoD Sergeant, who I felt was doing a good job.
So! In light of the new storyteller (who so far gives me nothing to complain about), and the cautious optimism that the mistakes of the past have been learned from on staff's side, I'll say that it's maybe alright to play in the AoD again. Not that it really matters to the active shadowboarder who's already made up their mind -- but for the new player who stuck with my thread for 24+ pages, perhaps a new player who doesn't exist. But oh well.
Basically, I've got a little hope in Brokkr and seidhr, and the new Sergeant player. So y'all can play in the AoD again. Have fun.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 5, 2015 0:29:04 GMT -5
Whew. Glad that's settled.
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