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Post by lyse on Oct 7, 2015 19:08:33 GMT -5
It's really weird when I agree with shadeofkroni
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Oct 8, 2015 0:13:40 GMT -5
This is going to be a bit of an infodump. As all should be aware, the updates to the help death file detailed here are a direct result of this dialogue I've had with staff. Adhira promised me that the team would be discussing and potentially reconsidering their stance on player resurrections; and so they have, with the sole intentions of covering their asses and being able to explicitly deny anyone who comes hereafter demanding the same accountability as I have. You see, the first two identifiers... - Staff mistakes -- This would be a PC death that is a result of an unintentional staff error.
- Game bugs -- This would be a PC death that is directly attributable to game code not working the way that it was intended.
They exactly fit the scenario that happened to trigger this entire discussion. I sent in a question form, because I had sadly gotten my hopes up that the staff team could have potentially learned and improved from their failure. And the response I received (my italics my words) was:Reassuring, right? All of the sacrifice I have made in entertainment, status, and invested time has only led to the construction of yet more bureaucracy explicitly intended to suppress what I have tried to express. With all that in mind, let's take a step back. When I was banned for my Shogun post, I called out Adhira when she said she felt that if people sat down and talked, she felt that they could come to an understanding. So it happens, I joined the teamspeak and talked with her for a long while. She told me she felt both the forum ban and the game ban were unnecessary, and that there had been an over-reaction. She told me that if I really wanted to return to the game, she would have a discussion with the Terrible Two and perhaps let me back in. She also told me that she would give me a karma review; this was because Nyr had (and I quote to the best of my ability) "probably closed that request needlessly because he was still angry at you." She also told me that, in a month's time after I had chilled out, the forum ban could be lifted. I was very disappointed when I got this response, as its tone and promised goals were very different than when we had spoken on Teamspeak. Perhaps I had misled myself, perhaps she changed her mind, or perhaps she didn't want to ruin the conversation by pressing these points. I'll not know. Over the past 23 days or so, I've had the following forum ban appeal open. It was ignored. To which I got the following response: Following this, the karma check request that I had opened after Adhira told me she intended to check my karma was closed with this reason:If it had not been made clear beforehand, I was promised in email and via spoken word that I would be getting a karma check. I immediately sent in the following request:It was closed with the following reason:This is that famous Nessalin reputation that precedes him so well. I had almost fooled myself that this could be a constructive discussion. How do you respond when you're told that your issues with the staff team are self-entitled, and you're a petulant troll? Everything I have done, all points I have made, have not been for my benefit -- they were and still are for the benefit of my fellow players who suffered needlessly from the staff team's inability to follow through their own actions. I'll also admit that I'm too proud to let such a left-field, sophomoric insult as this be tolerated. I submitted the following new request: My response:Can you really call someone a self-entitled, petulant troll and expect them not to retort out of their own self-worth? Nessalin can. Nessalin can insult you and then use your defense against you. Nessalin can overstep the promises of his supposed equal, and speak for her, even when he's said not an hour before that no one's actions other than Adhira's are a reflection on Adhira. I was then greeted with this gem. What a gobshite. My account has been scrambled. Do I deserve this? I'm not banned; my account's password has been scrambled. You see, a ban can be appealed. With a scrambled password, Nyr can pull with me the same thing he pulled with shadycharacter, with the same vitriol and toxicity. It's more of an insult to be @toad'd than @newt'd. I guess I do deserve this, for challenging Nyr and Nessalin to potentially learn from their mistakes. I deserve this for expecting any improvement out of this staff team. They have taken the snippet of "There's nothing in the rules about being fair" and turned it into an excuse to... just be needlessly rude dictators. They've made a shame of the story and integrity of the game that they've inherited. This truly is the end, my friends. I deserve everything I got. Everyone who continues to volunteer on that team, and everyone who continues to play, deserves this admin team... they deserve everything they get, also. If you have the predisposition to lick boots, Armageddon is the game for you. But if you have any value in the time you invest in this game, or hold anyone accountable for their actions, you'll be disappointed. I know I am really disappointed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 1:13:15 GMT -5
You shouldn't have expected any measure of decency or reason from those two. That was futile and silly. You're dealing with people who occupy their positions precisely because they derive pleasure from treating others badly. Adhira might have begun to see the necessity in reconciling with former players who may return and help to mend this dying game, but Nyr and Nessalin - being themselves the main reason for the game's crumbling condition - will never change. They have no genuine interest in the game's well-being, they're there because it's an outlet for their personality disorders which they channel into wanton abuse of the playerbase.
It's almost to the point where it's fair to mock those who still play the game in good faith. One might play it like a text-based Skyrim, sort of defiantly and with no upward correspondence, and still keep one's dignity; but there almost has to be something wrong with those who are willing to put up with the wholesale exploitation inflicted by those two reprehensible megalomaniacs. To submit deference to them is to enable and reward behaviour that has destroyed a game and community almost as old as most of us. That's to say nothing of how they might treat people IRL after getting a taste for unopposable power on Armageddon.
Those who don't object to that aren't worthy of respect.
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blargle
Clueless newb
Beast Master
Posts: 63
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Post by blargle on Oct 8, 2015 2:24:43 GMT -5
Not sure what you expected to come from intentionally antagonizing Nessalin. Poke a sleeping bear with a stick enough times and it'll eventually get up and maul you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 7:09:05 GMT -5
Judging by all the posts he's written here on the forum, pasted requests and responses from staff that he's posted here:
Shades of Ivory Angel if you ask me. Asanadas was told at the start that a res request has to come from the player of the dead PC, not someone else. That should've been the end of it. Asanadas didn't want it to be the end and kept pushing and pushing til he made a pest of himself.
He got banned for not just dropping it and continuing on and on til none of the staff wanted to hear about it anymore.
Then he's told they'll consider the GDB unban in a month's time. He's told one of the conditions: he cannot post about the resurrection stuff in terms of complaints, requests, and posts on the GDB. So what does he do? He doesn't wait the full month and instead pesters them before the month is over to ask for an unban. And to add insult to injury, he declares that he wants to post about the resurrection policy on the GDB.
The thing about the player needing to make the request on their own behalf isn't new. Someone tried to do that for a PC that I had that was killed by a code error maybe seven years ago and they were told that I had to file the request myself. I didn't care that my PC died so I didn't bother to ask for it. The guy who made the request "on my behalf" had wasted his and the staff's time, but thankfully he didn't push it because he might've ended up in the same situation you're in now - with player and staff all pissed off at each other for no reason at all.
And he thinks the staff is being unreasonable and he starts making demands and telling the staff what he expects? He hasn't honored a single thing that the staff expects, or even asks of him, and hasn't done so from the very start of this whole thing. Asanadas your obsession with something that's been "old news" for weeks now is creepy. Ivory Angel-type creepy.
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mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
Posts: 335
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Post by mood on Oct 8, 2015 11:24:20 GMT -5
ivory angel owns fuck you
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mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
Posts: 335
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Post by mood on Oct 8, 2015 11:24:39 GMT -5
jonglo the juggler is no more he fell and died upon the floor he hit some guy, he's gone, goodbye the taverns will be quite a bore
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Oct 8, 2015 11:40:44 GMT -5
Judging by all the posts he's written here on the forum, pasted requests and responses from staff that he's posted here: Shades of Ivory Angel if you ask me. Asanadas was told at the start that a res request has to come from the player of the dead PC, not someone else. That should've been the end of it. Asanadas didn't want it to be the end and kept pushing and pushing til he made a pest of himself. Go back and look at what I was told. My issue is not that I submitted resurrection requests on someone else's behalf; it's that the issue happened in the first place without staff immediately jumping to fix the situation like they did when Euronomos hit me with a staff dagger.
He got banned for not just dropping it and continuing on and on til none of the staff wanted to hear about it anymore. Then he's told they'll consider the GDB unban in a month's time. He's told one of the conditions: he cannot post about the resurrection stuff in terms of complaints, requests, and posts on the GDB. So what does he do? He doesn't wait the full month and instead pesters them before the month is over to ask for an unban. And to add insult to injury, he declares that he wants to post about the resurrection policy on the GDB. I have no idea how you're getting this information that I didn't wait until the full month was up. I was banned on 8/5/2015, and it was lifted after talking with Adhira on 8/8/2015. I put in the ban appeal ticket on 9/14/2015. Your information is incorrect.
And a discussion board isn't supposed to be about discussion anymore? I think it's a complete shame for future players that this abortion of logic that Nyr, Cavaticus and Talia jumped through is now defined as a hard rule they can just point to without having to attempt to explain their shenanigans. The entire game will suffer. As a matter of fact, the updates to the Resurrection policy happened on direct account of my discussion with Adhira. Where the true insult to injury lies is that Adhira told me they would be "looking over" the resurrection policy in Teamspeak, and they come out with the complete opposite of what I had hoped for there to be.The thing about the player needing to make the request on their own behalf isn't new. Someone tried to do that for a PC that I had that was killed by a code error maybe seven years ago and they were told that I had to file the request myself. I didn't care that my PC died so I didn't bother to ask for it. The guy who made the request "on my behalf" had wasted his and the staff's time, but thankfully he didn't push it because he might've ended up in the same situation you're in now - with player and staff all pissed off at each other for no reason at all. The people who filed resurrection requests were denied. This is not about the resurrection requests, it is about how the staff team treats their playerbase OOCly after completely botching and ruining things ICly. The reason we're "pissed" at each other lies in the fact I wouldn't let them forget where they screwed up, and they are adamant that they are not going to improve anything.And he thinks the staff is being unreasonable and he starts making demands and telling the staff what he expects? He hasn't honored a single thing that the staff expects, or even asks of him, and hasn't done so from the very start of this whole thing. Asanadas your obsession with something that's been "old news" for weeks now is creepy. Ivory Angel-type creepy. The staff have not attuned or adhered to one rule of their own supposed guidelines when dealing with this. They have been rude, needlessly so, and haven't taken seriously any effort these characters put into the game for a long time. Thanks to the general framing of suppression and punishments regarding a player stating their contrary opinion, it's taken so long to get this to a conclusion in the first place (no matter how destructive the conclusion is). If I was spoken to like an actual human being, then there would have been progress; instead, I was spoken down to, given adolescent boot-stomps and told that "This is how it is because I say so." I'll bet this "old news" is just as relevant today as it was months ago, on two counts: the same staff members months ago are still in power over the game; they're still making bad decisions over players. This isn't about who gets to put in what resurrection request, damnit. Cavaticus dropped the ball, Nyr dropped the ball, Talia dropped the ball when dealing with a situation where a bug in the code caused three players to lose the effort they put into their characters. For daring to demand some sort of change to the policy to prevent something like this happening again, I have lost everything I put into this game. It has been made clear that the staff team holds no value in the player experience & has no value in a character's life aside from the sponsored ones roiling in favoritism. And I've got no clue who this Ivory Angel you're talking about is, you're trying to link me to because I cared about my players in this game. I might as well say you sound like Nyr because you're spouting lies and coming to conclusions with willing misinformation. Not sure what you expected to come from intentionally antagonizing Nessalin. Poke a sleeping bear with a stick enough times and it'll eventually get up and maul you. I intentionally antagonized Nessalin after he called me a petulant troll? So your wisdom is to just take needless insults from one of the three "authorities" whose decisions you're arguing against for the betterment of the player experience? I don't put it past Nessalin, since he's got a reputation for being an asshole as much as Nyr does. I came to the conversation willing to make good on a promise that had been made to me, and I was met with a direct insult. How anyone like that could be in any sort of leader position is a travesty.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 18:55:26 GMT -5
I gotta say I liked the first half of this thread more. Now it's all lawyerise and ... whining. I think you got a point where the staff was all, "Fuck the rules and guidelines. Those are for the players. And we dont wanna play with you."
What exactly was your goal? Did you expect them to unban you and then post a public apology on GDB saying how they mistreated you and were wrong? Did you expect them to pour ash all over their heads? What fucking game do you "ever" get that in? I imagine it can sometimes happen in for-profit games, but even then it's all diluted into anonymity of who's really at fault.
Whatever you were trying to achieve, was completely unachievable. Adhira basically told you. We'll unban you and you'll be able to recover from this if you CHILL THE FUCK DOWN. But ... you didnt.
Sure, you can understand this different. You can understand this as "We'll unban you, but from there on, you'll agree to take it up the ass whenever we're feeling an itch". Yes. You can understand that this way. And hey, if you do, then your only real proper and just reaction to this would be to tell them all to fuck off and never play the game. Well, you're doing that now.
What are your goals right now?
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Post by BitterFlashback on Oct 8, 2015 20:14:38 GMT -5
It's worth remembering Asan/PPP had played a grand total of 3 characters at the time. Most people get introduced to staff fuckery under less severe circumstances much later in their play.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Oct 8, 2015 21:10:21 GMT -5
Lots of air quotes here.
My goals throughout this hell of a reaction with the Arm staff have "changed" nearly every step of the way, but there was one thing that I always had my mind on. That was the enjoyment of the other players which I was "leading." If I had been a "better player" like some of the superstars of the GDB, I wouldn't have cared about the enjoyment of other people in this shared hobby, and none of this would have been such a pressing issue to me. But the one thing I couldn't abide was that three other players who saw fit to spend their time in my clan got screwed unjustly; I ended up getting screwed unjustly as well.
What I wanted was an update to the resurrection policy that allowed for instances that made no justifiable sense in-universe to be retconned with resurrections. If this MUD were in an alpha or a beta, this rule would already be there. However, since none of the current staff team has any clue what the code actually is, and they're afraid to even touch it, they'd rather go forward treating the code like some divine being that's always right and cannot be changed or challenged. I also wanted everyone involved accountable to their own rules and guidelines, especially regarding Nyr and his abominable assholishness.
What I'll never be able to recover from is their disregard of their own policies and their complete failure throughout every step of this discussion. I just didn't find any enjoyment putting my time towards that.
My goal right now is to inform anyone who approaches this game holding any merits regarding accountability or politeness to know what to expect going in. What they can expect is to be loathed, censored, and punished by the staff members for making things "difficult," because God forbid anyone on that team work towards making anything "better."
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Post by latrineswimmer on Oct 8, 2015 21:28:24 GMT -5
Jesus let it go. You are going Kronibus with your reaction. Seriously. Almost everyone has lost characters for shitty reasons at some point. Just chill out or move on to a different game which is either static or with different staff. Maybe EoE if you want staff more open to player appeals. It can't be healthy to care this much about an event on a text-based game. That being said, I do think you bringing it originally to the playerbase's attention was the right thing to do as it is clear you got fucked by someone not understanding the crime code and setting the giant to civilian. But it seems every post now gets more and more subjective and actually works against you. I am glad the staff have cleared up the resurrection files and I do think this was in large part to this event. So you have affected the game for the better but I feel nothing else is needed.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Oct 8, 2015 21:42:07 GMT -5
his health is his own problem. he can rant and spew all he likes. it may seem like a fucked up waste of time to u but u have the choice of skipping over his theraposts the moment u see his userid, even if he does end up pulling a few kronibusters in unrelated threads down the line
ppl like to play arm to chop motherfuckas up with bone swords, others come here to bludgeon dead horses with blue warclubs
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Post by latrineswimmer on Oct 8, 2015 21:45:00 GMT -5
That was awesome.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Oct 8, 2015 21:47:44 GMT -5
haha well his name is purgpurgpurg whatd u expect
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