punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098 
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 28, 2015 7:29:40 GMT -5
Think about it this way. If you do still play the game, you do not want to infringe or ruin any further enjoyment you can derive from it by criticizing Nyr. Staff wrote the book on circling wagons. You would think that toxicity would have the opposite effect; that the good staff members would want nothing to do with it. Sadly, it is the opposite. Indeed, their good deeds, they see, are a justification for Nyr's toxicity.
Anyone that has any sort of respect for the player base they were drawn from would denounce this horrible administrator. However, doing so would undoubtedly strip them of their rank, so they remain silent. In their view, they are not responsible nor answerable to the flippant stupidity relevant in threads here. It is their only way to cope.
Now, we all know that is not the truth. While a staff member may not truly be accountable for allowing this to happen, they still remain accountable to the whims of the top administration. If, say, rogue gunslinger came and posted on his account here singing how stupid these decisions are, it would be a multilayered collapse of both malevolence and indifference from all members of staff. He may find himself with requests that no one answered for months. Or, he may find his wishes ignored. This is because, due to challenging the current failed state, and demanding any form of accountability, he is and I quote, more trouble than he is worth. No he has not broken any rules, but he has broken the "trust" the staff team has in him; this is one sided, as they have already broken the trust we had in them.
Basically, if you make yourself an enemy of the state, you are sacrificing any enjoyment you may derive from this game. I would not be surprised if, for some reason, a staff member decides to do what they volunteer to do and help this poor man I've created in this metaphor, he would be told directly by the upper staff to cease. Any roll calls would have upper level edict to avoid this poor man. This poor man with no longer get any karma. He may find his posts edited or deleted on the gdb. Animations in game that facilitate role play for others may avoid him entirely. Requests for plots to benefit his clan may be disregarded on the sole facet that he is the one asking for them; in this way, it could be argued that this poor man's placement as leader of a clan is detrimental to the entire clan, and by that he may be removed.
Do you now see why he does not express his opinion? The only thing he has to lose is the enjoyment of this game, which is not something he's willing to give up. I'm speaking about my metaphorical constructs, not anyone specific.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 7:57:31 GMT -5
That's all fairly common knowledge to this community, but the point is that if your basis for posting here is a false persona that has to defend the staff in order to protect yourself, you probably shouldn't be posting here. There's essentially two possibilities:
1) He's intentionally false. This is the picture you paint. He knows staff is irredeemably corrupt but is still willing to use apologist rhetoric at every turn just to protect his proverbial karma, and instead of choosing not to post here, which is something I can absolutely understand, he comes here and posts constant drivel along the vein of "don't be so harsh on staff" and "maybe you're the problem." If this is the case, no amount of ridicule is too much.
2) He actually is a staff sycophant who is willing to PR for them for self-serving reasons. We know there's plenty of those, though they tend to have the decency to stay on the GDB. These people are the reason staff can continue to do what they do without feeling the need to improve the game or their own behaviour. If this is what he is, no amount of ridicule will suffice.
See what I mean?
Whatever the case, there really can be no justification for coming here with a pro-staff agenda if you can't actually present any real arguments in their favor. I don't even know my2sids or care who he is, it's more that we get those people every now and then. Nobody has come here with actual counter-arguments, it's just this disgustingly self-serving apologism that doesn't even attempt to justify its own stance. That's what I can't take.
This board has a culture of transparency, precisely because the lack of this is something we hate about Armageddon. People here will post the material from which they base their arguments. It's not just a community of people who sit and go "aren't staff pricks? Yeah, they are. Staff killed my parents!" So if someone wants to take the opposing side - which they're welcome to do - they have to be as reasoned and as accountable for their statements as someone like Asan was, or the many other players who supplied logs, emails, request transcripts etc. to back up their complaints.
In short, don't come here defending staff if you're not prepared to at least try to prove why we're wrong.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by my2sids on Sept 28, 2015 8:24:46 GMT -5
@oldtwink: And if you read my posts you would see I don't disagree with a majority of the issues. I don't have an answer or solid defense for most of these problems because I am in fact not on staff, and I am in fact not a mind controlled servant. Having an opinion doesn't mean I'm towing a party line here, as much as you would love me to be a company man. |
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 28, 2015 8:41:28 GMT -5
It's a valid opinion to think not all staff are bad. Nyr at the top is inexcusable, yeah, but there are a couple or so who are actually good. M2S and co. are probably arguing against painting broad strokes and condemning the entire staff base (at least that's what I get out of it).
Overall it's meh. Nyr, Talia, and Cavaticus are indefensible because of their collective incestuous incompetence. But it's too common to think they all are like that.
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Post by lyse on Sept 28, 2015 10:07:18 GMT -5
It's a valid opinion to think not all staff are bad. Nyr at the top is inexcusable, yeah, but there are a couple or so who are actually good. M2S and co. are probably arguing against painting broad strokes and condemning the entire staff base (at least that's what I get out of it). Overall it's meh. Nyr, Talia, and Cavaticus are indefensible because of their collective incestuous incompetence. But it's too common to think they all are like that. Nobody ever said all staff are bad. Nobody; there's even a thread that rates the staffers (which I'm against btw because it's subjective). Someone coming here to defend the staff is actually a good thing. What I'm getting out of this is...it's really hard to defend them. But, I knew that and I'm sure...everybody. knew. that. He has fun playing the game, we get that too. But when asked about it you can't be all, "Don't question him, he can have his opinion." Well that's kind of stupid, because nobody said he couldn't, discussions are always two sided and that's what this board is for...discussion. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 15:23:41 GMT -5
Seriously this is the exact same thing I was getting before and after I made an account here. I criticize staff all the time but the few times I attempted to perhaps show their perspective or make it out like not every person claiming to have been slighted by staff is always in the right, everyone jumped on this same "you're a boot-licking staff apologist" crap.
Agree or disagree, sure, but trying to interpret peoples motivations like you're some sort of internet-certified psych expert is just laughable. What's even the point? Are you going to point out every time someone disagree with your "fuck the staff Nyr is evil and they're all awful for keeping him" attitude?
Some of you like to say you're welcoming of people with reasonable argument on both sides of the fence but you sure come down hard on anyone who disagrees with you and immediately jump to shit like this whenever you don't like how they respond to you. You're not even arguing about anything staff has done or not anymore. The entire basis of this conversation is "friday is a boot-licking apologist who only defends staff." and "No I'm not." "No he's not" and "Oh you must suck his cock too then." "You're too delusional to see it"
Ya'll just need to get along. We're all members of the same community. We don't always got to agree but we also don't have to take everything so damn seriously either.
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deadelf
staff puppet account
Posts: 44
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Post by deadelf on Sept 28, 2015 15:45:40 GMT -5
I've never been treated rudely by Arm staff. I'm also not so gullible as to believe this place is populated by saints and Nyr is the antichrist.
People have been rage quitting Arm for as long as it's been around. That's over 20 years now. I'm sure the game will be just fine if/when I ever play again.
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aread
staff puppet account
Posts: 14
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Post by aread on Sept 28, 2015 16:37:53 GMT -5
Sometimes this board feels more like a method to spite staff rather than a place to help players find info they can't get elsewhere.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 18:08:12 GMT -5
Lyse: I guess I keep saying that we're both adults because I want to really drive home the point that I appreciate being talked to like an adult. It might also help if you also acted like one instead of slinging childish accusations around, but I'm willing to leave that unpleasantness behind from this point on.
I don't think m2s came here just to be a "boot-licking staff apologist," but putting the fact that I know him and have spoken to him outside this board aside for a second, so what if a person did come here just to defend the staff? This board offers a lot of criticism of staff and the standard GDB shill, and actually having that sort of person here would offer the opportunity to debate instead of just having a bunch of people who agree with each other pat each other on the back.
Lyse, you keep implying that what you're really saying is that no one is above criticism for their point of view and that this is a debate forum. If that's really your opinion, I absolutely agree with you. What I don't agree with is the notion that we should leap tooth and claw on those who express an opinion that's branded as "pro-staff" and accuse them of having "ginger cockbreath" or being a "staff apologist" or kissing ass for karma. To me that's as silly as those on the GDB that call us "that OTHER board" and behave as if they're going to catch the derelak pox if they so much as glance at a thread.
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Post by gloryhound on Sept 28, 2015 18:30:34 GMT -5
Anyone who posts about how good the game is these days and how pleased they are with their role in it is just someone making sure nothing will change. As soon as the message becomes muddied, apathy finds its excuse. If we talk about the old days here a lot, it's because we remember how dynamic the game used to be, before the present state of affairs congealed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 19:00:09 GMT -5
Talking about how great the old days were is fine. I have plenty of good old days stories. I just also have recent awesome experiences in game. For me it's about roleplaying with other good roleplayers in a setting I enjoy. Some people apparently want more than that.
It's also perfectly reasonable to dislike some portions of the game or staff direction, while still enjoying the game for what it is. Saying you enjoy the game as it is doesn't mean you don't want it to be different or change for the better.
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Post by lyse on Sept 28, 2015 19:05:26 GMT -5
Lyse: I guess I keep saying that we're both adults because I want to really drive home the point that I appreciate being talked to like an adult. It might also help if you also acted like one instead of slinging childish accusations around, but I'm willing to leave that unpleasantness behind from this point on. I don't think m2s came here just to be a "boot-licking staff apologist," but putting the fact that I know him and have spoken to him outside this board aside for a second, so what if a person did come here just to defend the staff? This board offers a lot of criticism of staff and the standard GDB shill, and actually having that sort of person here would offer the opportunity to debate instead of just having a bunch of people who agree with each other pat each other on the back. Lyse, you keep implying that what you're really saying is that no one is above criticism for their point of view and that this is a debate forum. If that's really your opinion, I absolutely agree with you. What I don't agree with is the notion that we should leap tooth and claw on those who express an opinion that's branded as "pro-staff" and accuse them of having "ginger cockbreath" or being a "staff apologist" or kissing ass for karma. To me that's as silly as those on the GDB that call us "that OTHER board" and behave as if they're going to catch the derelak pox if they so much as glance at a thread. I feel like I said many of the things you said a couple of times already. There wasn't anything to imply because I said them outright. You can quote me. I had to go back a few pages where my2sids was said to have Nyr's cock on his breath. I didn't say that and I can see that must've really hurt his feelings. I didn't say it's a debate forum, I said it was a discussion forum. Subtle difference, but an important distinction. I'm not trying to turn this into a royal rumble and I'm not trying to fight you. I did think it was funny the way you kind of jumped in there, so I ribbed you a little, because I thought it was a little odd. If that offended you, I apologize. I could point out the contradictions and all that stuff, but this has been super weird and very one sided. |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Sept 28, 2015 19:07:54 GMT -5
I'm not dead. For fucks sake I just want something interesting to happen again. The game desperately needs an adversary. They have this great opportunity with tuluk being npc now and instead it just sits there. In the old days, players provided most of the players' adversaries. There was something of a breadth and a depth to the variety of the threats in the game.
To every RPer, the first year of discovering RPIs is an exercise in amazed fascination just from having a place where everyone's in character and the rules enforce roleplay. Some players then move beyond that and start wanting things of actual value in the game; they leave Armageddon. Other players never really progress beyond the point of being satisfied with the basic features of the game, and when you've accumulated an entire playerbase worth of those, it's easy to claim that you're running a worthwhile game that your players are satisfied with. The ones who aren't have quit, but anyone can tell that the game has made no progress for years. There's an old saying I'll paraphrase, typically used in regards to employment: "Talent goes where it feels welcome."
The crying-faced man begins creating.
The crying-faced man makes his own fun.
In a flaccid rain of dongs, the cockbag of Nyr has arrived from the Elemental Plane of Dickery.
The cockbag of Nyr snatches the crying-faced man's fun from him.
After snapping it in half in front of the crying-faced man, the cockbag of Nyr casually drops two broken halves of fun on the floor.
The cockbag of Nyr docks the crying-faced man in his karma, doing horrifying damage!
The cockbag of Nyr docks the crying-faced man in his karma, doing horrifying damage!
Slithering into a series of unseen holes, the cockbag of Nyr has retreated from the Material Plane. How'd making your own fun work out for you, my friend? I tried it a few times with roughly the same result. So what you're saying is they lack the motivation to do the thing they volunteered to do? Why don't they step down, then, instead of making the integrity of the game world suffer by hamming their decisions in? If you can think of an easier, faster way to get 8 karma, I'm listening.
Man it sure is easy to throw stones. My glass house is AWESOME. If you want a great environment then foster it. That's great advice, but why are you telling us instead of the staff? This might come as breaking news over there. You're referring to the Winrothol/Tenneshi conflict. I was never involved in that but from what I hear it was a lot of back/forth that amounted to no concrete resolution. I think a lot happened, but yeah, no reward cake. It was heavily, irrationally sandbagged by the staff. Ask RogueRougeRanger for details.
I dunno, sometimes my2sids is more in the mood for defending the staff, sometimes he disapproves of their actions. Yes, he defends them more than most people here, which I'd say is a good thing these days, because it gives people here something to talk about. Seems like a dissenting voice is kind of needed here lately; discussion has kind of petered out. So he's wishy-washy? Ehhh, he's more like if you took delerak's personality and then inverted his relationship with Arm. He's a lot more pro-staff than us, but will still call them out on stuff occasionally. He's also not too bad to debate with (if you can keep him on point). ;P |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 19:29:31 GMT -5
Lyse: I guess I keep saying that we're both adults because I want to really drive home the point that I appreciate being talked to like an adult. It might also help if you also acted like one instead of slinging childish accusations around, but I'm willing to leave that unpleasantness behind from this point on. I don't think m2s came here just to be a "boot-licking staff apologist," but putting the fact that I know him and have spoken to him outside this board aside for a second, so what if a person did come here just to defend the staff? This board offers a lot of criticism of staff and the standard GDB shill, and actually having that sort of person here would offer the opportunity to debate instead of just having a bunch of people who agree with each other pat each other on the back. Lyse, you keep implying that what you're really saying is that no one is above criticism for their point of view and that this is a debate forum. If that's really your opinion, I absolutely agree with you. What I don't agree with is the notion that we should leap tooth and claw on those who express an opinion that's branded as "pro-staff" and accuse them of having "ginger cockbreath" or being a "staff apologist" or kissing ass for karma. To me that's as silly as those on the GDB that call us "that OTHER board" and behave as if they're going to catch the derelak pox if they so much as glance at a thread. I feel like I said many of the things you said a couple of times already. There wasn't anything to imply because I said them outright. You can quote me. I had to go back a few pages where my2sids was said to have Nyr's cock on his breath. I didn't say that and I can see that must've really hurt his feelings. I didn't say it's a debate forum, I said it was a discussion forum. Subtle difference, but an important distinction. I'm not trying to turn this into a royal rumble and I'm not trying to fight you. I did think it was funny the way you kind of jumped in there, so I ribbed you a little, because I thought it was a little odd. If that offended you, I apologize. I could point out the contradictions and all that stuff, but this has been super weird and very one sided. I somehow doubt you could point out any contradictions. It's been weird and one sided because you've got no substance and are just arguing to criticize anyone who doesn't agree with you or Oldtwink 100%. So yeah, it's one sided. It's just not coming from the side you're on. What is amusing is if you go back in this very thread and read the people's responses who you're arguing with now(Friday, me, Prince, even PurgPurgPurg)... Not a single one of us agree with what staff did to Asan. We all criticized them for it. But nope, we're definitely a bunch of bootlicking apologists. Prince even liked a bunch of your posts in this thread where you criticized staff, heh. I wish more people complained about the game like Bitter does. He does it right, even if I don't always agree with his more cynical disposition towards the game. |
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 28, 2015 20:16:27 GMT -5
Sometimes this board feels more like a method to spite staff rather than a place to help players find info they can't get elsewhere. There's really no other method to express frustration. GDB? Banned. Staff complaint? Disregarded, banned. Clique of AIM friends? Way to be such a negative nancy, friendo. I've never been treated rudely by Arm staff. I'm also not so gullible as to believe this place is populated by saints and Nyr is the antichrist. Give it time, my man. Unless you're not playing currently... then it seems you're stuck in the lucky zone of never being controversial enough to earn ire. |
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