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Post by gloryhound on Jun 27, 2015 15:44:19 GMT -5
The bottom line is that there's little point in asking for anything beyond the standard things on their request tool (unless you're one of the favored few), and no point at all in continuing the conversation after you've already been told no. That is how they've settled on operating. All you can do is to decide whether there's enough fun left to keep on playing despite these limitations.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jun 27, 2015 16:11:34 GMT -5
Your staff inquiry shows a startling lack of insight into the viewpoint of others. You persist in feeling wronged, even after you are preemptively made whole, and develop a theory to make it personal, informed by GDB speculation (and not by any actual pressure placed on you by staff, as far as you disclose--so you inadvertently validate quashing discussion on the GDB since you have let it inform your imagination to your own detriment), which corresponds in no way to the actual events that transpired. Do you understand how that, by itself, would be tiring to deal with? Yet you are treated with the utmost respect and consideration throughout. Your summary shows a startling lack of insight into the viewpoint of others. Say you're a newbie. You've had a grand total of three characters. One of them gets randomly murdered by a staffer, but you're told later, through a third party that it was an accident and they're cleaning the mess up. Now you still had to deal with the feelings and mystery of what happened between getting WTFPWNED and rezzed. So yeah, you're probably going to feel a bit put-out even when it's made right because you're left with questions about how something like that could be allowed to happen at all. The staff seemed pretty cool about it so you probably put it aside as a one-time thing. You go about playing the game and probably don't think twice about it. Now you're playing your third character -ever- in the game. A staffer decides to cause a scene that results in three characters getting turned into mulch in front of you because the crimcode is idiotic. Everyone on staff blames the players present but no one (including you) offers an explanation for what the staffer intended to happen that the waterhead players fucked up with their entirely predictable reaction. You are repeatedly stonewalled, insulted, threatened, and punished for not letting it go. So 2 out of 3 of your characters are exposed to the staff obliterating/rezzing PCs on a whim. You're treated like shit for not being okay with it. Why wouldn't you, as this newbie, be paranoid? Why wouldn't you, as this newbie, get pissed off? Because when you talk about people not being able to see the viewpoints of others, I kind of expect you to actually have that talent yourself, and I'm just not seeing it. Furthermore, what was the staff goal of that scene with the templar? What did Cav want to happen when he subdued the PC templar? Because nobody on staff the staff has volunteered that information, nobody defending the staff has even ventured a guess at it, and omitting the staff goal is the only way to keep the blame on the players. |
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Post by lyse on Jun 27, 2015 17:35:43 GMT -5
Asan, what you have to realize about Arm's staff is once they say something, they're going to stick with it....regardless. I think what happened is you wanted them to see reason. What you asked for was reasonable, but what you have to realize about them is once they tell you no, they're going to stick with it (I'm repeating myself for effect). The only vindication is the fact that, you brought the event here and most people agree that you weren't being crazy or unreasonable. Engaging them further isn't going to do anything but make you look bad, those three players probably are well into their next character by now. I'm really surprised they rezzed your character the time they killed you; I've shared the time I got killed by an "Ooops" and didn't get rezzed and was told it was a mistake and I still wasn't getting rezzed...enjoy my next character. So it seems at least they progressed from there, sure they still have a little ways to go.
The best way to look at it is: You realized one of the things it takes a lot of players YEARS to realize and by the time they do, they've been playing for YEARS and are so invested in the game they just won't stop playing no matter what staff does to them. You have two options here: Take your ball and play elsewhere (just stop playing Armageddon) or play on, but realize you pretty much have been blackballed and you can't really ask for too much from them (ie Arm is now a MMO survival game). The game isn't fair, that's the way the game is setup to be played. It's the trap that many people fall into and many people never come to accept, it's a game a secrecy, unfairness and amusement. Just take a step away from it for a little while at least, but just don't engage them anymore. It's still a fun game, sometimes, but you really, really have to accept what it is.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
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Post by Jeshin on Jun 28, 2015 0:22:41 GMT -5
Final comment on this thread for me, since someone chitchatted with me on IM about it and since my position is more middle-road they were confused as to my specific "stance" on the issue. Not that anyone cares, but for clarity.
1. Those players should not be rezed based on current policy.
2. Crimcode should be updated or policy related to rezs from it should be changed.* note
3. Staff should not have engaged with Asan at all regarding this issue since he was a player requesting a rez for other players. They should have stonewalled and followed their own policies regarding discussing player issues with other players. It might make you grumble but it is their policy.
4. Asan while passionate didn't help his case at all with the way he framed his requests and arguments. Would it have mattered if he had? Probably not, but it's worth noting.
5. If the staff -had- to justify this action they should have simply stated Code = RP. This is a common phrase in the Armageddon community and saves them from specifically explaining bad code in an IC manner. Would it make you grumble, sure. But it would have at least been consistent with previous statements and would have been harder to pick apart.
* note: If this situation is the one that prompted the staff to review their policy then those 3 recruits should have been rezed.
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Asan
staff puppet account
Posts: 30
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Post by Asan on Jun 28, 2015 9:25:05 GMT -5
What do you mean, current policy? Current policy is "if 2 admin+ decide it's right to do", correct?
Don't forget that Nyr and Talia spent time after the situation happened lying about it on the AoD clan board, and misrepresenting it. I have no doubt that they lied about it to other staffers, too. Their summary of "Recruits attacked soldier and died" completely invalidates the actual plot they were trying to accomplish, and is so blinded to every other variable that it's just dishonest.
I've felt that the reason they won't recognize this is a problem is because they are incapable of fixing it. There's nobody on the current level of staff capable of tooling around with the crime-code to prevent situations like these.
I believe at some point after that half-giant was attacked, whoever was running the situation from the staff side said "Fuck it", and just didn't care what happened to the people that she viewed as directly sabotaging whatever she was trying to accomplish. What she doesn't realize, is that she left no choice for everyone there involved to do anything but act in an IC fashion.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Jun 28, 2015 10:38:30 GMT -5
Current resurrection policy according to the helpfiles regard straight-up code bugs (someone abusing a bug to kill you, the tavern accidentally becoming an instant-death room, etc.) and "exceptional circumstances", which isn't really clearly defined.
But honestly it really does boil down to whether or not you've consistently cupped the balls just right as you fellated staff for 2 admin+ to think you've earned it. Or some other arbitrary criteria they can handwave if the mood strikes them.
Maybe they flip coins?
I bet they flip coins.
That would at least explain their inconsistency when it comes to doling out resurrections.
By the very definition of "bug", in this case a straight-up friendly-fire incident that makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever, is a bug. Or should be considered a bug. An "exceptional circumstance" at the very least.
Honestly, it's pretty silly to try to argue otherwise.
We can sit here and play a game of "what if", regarding hypotheticals on "if the rez were granted".
We could point out and debate whether Asan's tone or attitude was appropriate.
We could debate as to whether or not it was his place to ask for a resurrection.
We could play up how rare resurrections are supposed to be, which should be a non-issue. I don't care if it's the first time buggy code caused the death of a character, or the hundredth, a resurrection should be granted for every instance in which the guidelines are satisfied.
But the bottom line is that it very much appears that the staff, yet again, are not playing by their own rules.
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Post by lulz on Jun 28, 2015 10:47:10 GMT -5
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Post by topkekm8s on Jun 28, 2015 20:14:32 GMT -5
dont be unfair lulz, we have all gone through what he is going through in one form or another Dude they are fucking nerds. And I don't mean it in the iconic sense of the word. I mean they are actually hard people to be around. Nessalin thinks the game is "his". You can talk about these sorts of things until you're blue in the face, it won't change his attitude. It won't change Nyr's attitude. The whole "professionalism" thing is just a smokescreen bro. They do what they want. They ban who they want. If they dont like you, too bad you're fucked. If you don't stroke their egos, too bad you're fucked. If you don't like them, "go play another mud". That is the way it actually is, that is the reality of it. These aren't professional game developers making money, these are part time hobbyists who either subconsciously or consciously get aroused by being sadistic. Armageddon MUD is THEIRS. And it always will be, because their little egos depend and rely upon it so much. For any real change to actually occur we are going to need to make our own game. Because they will never give up their power. They will never step down. lol. |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jun 28, 2015 22:26:08 GMT -5
If that horse isn't broken down to its component atoms by the time you stop beating it, you half-assed your argument. |
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Post by lulz on Jun 28, 2015 22:58:13 GMT -5
Not everyone can be on your level Bitter.  |
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Jun 29, 2015 12:17:32 GMT -5
So, basically, what you are saying is that the players are pawns, not in charge of shit and can't make changes, only sit in a fucking bar and schmooze until the staff gives the thumbs up that they are okay to resume the script.?
Wait, sorry, just describing everyday life in Zalanthas.
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ccp
staff puppet account
Posts: 32
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Post by ccp on Jun 29, 2015 13:05:02 GMT -5
Asan: You posted in your OP "Cavaticus is currently in the process of ruining the tradition and lore of the clan in order to bring it into line with Tuluk's system of contracts and periodic terms of service, instead of swearing a life-oath."
Do you mind clarifying/posting for us some evidence that this is the plan for the arm?
I fucking hope not.
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Post by glacierflux on Jun 29, 2015 13:50:49 GMT -5
In the log, a unit was used in a conflict involving PCs. Heard gossip that units are a no-no, and discouraged. Not supposed to use them in combat vs a player.
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Post by lulz on Jun 29, 2015 15:24:04 GMT -5
In the log, a unit was used in a conflict involving PCs. Heard gossip that units are a no-no, and discouraged. Not supposed to use them in combat vs a player. Very true. Right after the Copper War they were supposed to have nipped that shit in the bud since players were literally ordering entire units of soldiers to just crush newish players. I was pleased they removed the ability to use them, but perhaps that was only for players and not staff. I personally feel they should be used as VNPCs only since they really serve no purpose other than to trash players with lower defense. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 16:38:50 GMT -5
Asan, your situation is fucked, and im sorry it came to this! You'll have more luck sleeping with scarlet Johansson than getting a rez for anyone in this game. Allow me to spin you a story. Once upon a time, (probably my favorite asshole dwarf warrior ever) Was the first trooper of The byn, trained for being a wall, and several years IG, collected a whole bunch of silt horror armor. He'd traveled the known, killed hordes of spiders, kryl, a couple mets, etc etc, no one cares about his deeds, the point being, he was no soft-hearted, weak warrior, he was well-trained, well-hunted, maxed almost everything, he even had branched advanced weaponry. Korath decides to fight in the arena. (Literal days after nyr was appointed dictator of allanak, who hates my guts). So, he and the unnamed(i think still alive) do a practice round before the event. Everything thrown at them gets murdered. Korath was using his shield (which as a maxed, dwarf warrior, that shield will be hell to get through unless your base off dwarfs theirs!)
So, oash noble has a braxat come in. Unlike the other npcs, the braxat hesitated before charging. Axe and shield we meet the braxat head on, (korath hás killed braxats before, unscatched) and this braxat comes in and does two critical strikes back to back like korath was a skeet, (before i could even press enter, with disarm in my command prompt). He was still alive, and right after, the game crashes. Or so i thought. I log back in, and im dead. I also know the other players had dc'd, (speaking with them on aim, and the other pc in the arena had bad rep with nyr too. when the player logged in, he was almost dead. The oash logged intime to wipe the arena, and the player in the arena asked for a rez for korath, and was told immediately by nyr, no, the game didnt crash. Now...I hit up múltiple players, and turns out, it was just US three, who were dc'd.....at the exact damn time. One, a loaded braxat wouldnt mow through two long-lived, shield bearing warriors like nothing, unless it was tweaked. I also find it very odd that nyr replied immediately, (at least for me, 99% of my wishes go unanswered, and the 1% takes from 10 min + usually.), and most importantly, that three players DC at the same time, all living in different places of the world. No one else DC'd, Just us. Pretty sure nyr assasinated me, but thats not the point. The point is, even if you get fucked over and they know it, screw you and yours.
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