Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 21, 2015 10:14:02 GMT -5
gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg869108#newTLDR - Join a clan and every 4 ooc months you get to add an appropriate skill to your character even if it didn't get it from race/guild/subguild. Such as byn clan members getting guard or Borsail Wyvrens getting sap. I know the board probably agrees on a whole that more skill fluidity is a good thing, but is this manner of skill fluidity a good idea? Does it successfully make being in a clan better than being a badass indie? Discuss, go!
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 21, 2015 10:20:23 GMT -5
I would ask: is ths bribery? Or is it reimbersment for all the time you don't get to spend doing anything because of how shittily the clans are run? And no i don't count sparring or tqavern-sittng as things you get to do.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 21, 2015 10:22:52 GMT -5
Sure it's a bribe. You live a structured life under the yoke of a clan and presumably they are training you and shit thus you exchange your freedom for training only now you actually get 'training'. I guess?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5
Lifesworn doesn't even mean anything anymore. It's not consistently enforced. People have been let out of clans and kicked out of clans without being hunted down and killed even if they were lifesworn. Adding a skill just because you're in a clan won't work. Join the Byn, stay long enough to get guard, quit the Byn the next day. All that'll do is encourage people to do more metagaming, joining clans just to get skills and then leaving the clan once they have it. If the skill is taken away after quitting that would make as much sense as "forgetting" how to make GMH-crafted goods when you leave the GMH.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 21, 2015 10:34:48 GMT -5
Easy solution, begin properly enforcing lifesworn. Bonus: It helps improve lax clan RP and consequences?
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Post by nyrsucks on Feb 21, 2015 10:45:34 GMT -5
Lifesworn doesn't even mean anything anymore. It's not consistently enforced. People have been let out of clans and kicked out of clans without being hunted down and killed even if they were lifesworn. Adding a skill just because you're in a clan won't work. Join the Byn, stay long enough to get guard, quit the Byn the next day. All that'll do is encourage people to do more metagaming, joining clans just to get skills and then leaving the clan once they have it. If the skill is taken away after quitting that would make as much sense as "forgetting" how to make GMH-crafted goods when you leave the GMH. When has the 'byn ever been lifesworn?
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Post by nyrsucks on Feb 21, 2015 10:48:28 GMT -5
What examples of non-hunted rebel lifesworn do you have anyway. I haven't really seen much of that. The worst example was staff induced when they closed the Tor Academy last time but they were all soon lifesworn again.
So you join a clan, pass the recruit phase(1-1.5 months), survive 4 months, get your skill and then become a renegade? That seems like a lot of work to get one skill.
If getting a disarm-ranger after five months of work breaks the game, then so be it.
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grumble
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toxic shithead
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Post by grumble on Feb 21, 2015 11:33:39 GMT -5
i liek it. ruf surkle dae suks as asasin.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Feb 21, 2015 12:25:15 GMT -5
i liek it. ruf surkle dae suks as asasin. hey but now in four mos u can finally convince ur fellow ruff ryders that u really are a warrior. 'uh just kidding guys' lmao nice idea in general and i dont think it would matter if ppl tried to rebel after w/e time period it took to get the skill if the time to get it was long enough. turnover rate is prob still high and fast enough that guaranteeing someone to a just over 2 1/2 game years to a clan seems like a fair trade. this is assuming the skill isnt even made easier to improve with other pcs (guard, subdue, etc), where they would have an extra ooc incentive on top of any ic reasons to stay past the 2 1/2 game years
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Post by jcarter on Feb 21, 2015 13:39:43 GMT -5
i have mixed feelings.
on the one hand, you have clans like the Tor Scorpions that are set up to be the military academy. their warriors should be the best, their tactics should be the best, etc because they have the IC infrastructure in place. codedly, a Tor Scorpion warrior of equal time is going to be shittier than a Bynner of equal time, even though ICly you expect the Scorpion to be better. Codedly the Bynner will have more varied opponents, a bigger pbase to draw from that they can spar with, more verastile coded training and so on. on the one hand, it makes sense. these statements are silly (from GDB):
why would a hunter that uses a sword to hack down animals be better than someone who regularly spars with other armed opponents? that makes no sense whatsoever.
but on the other, it seems like a bandaid style solution of trying to lure players to clans without actually addressing why people don't want to play in clans, which isbecause they're boring and restrictive. it's nice in situations where someone makes an assassin and winds up in Kadius as a hunter through IC events but can't skin, but most players are clever enough and have enough vision to set up all the skills they need for their character through chargen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 13:41:38 GMT -5
I like it. Anything which allows the things you wind up doing in the game to be things you get better at only makes sense.
That said, I've always been a fan of the guildless system anyhow, where the things you do dictate what your skills are, rather than working on your skills because they're the only ones you'll ever have access to.
It is bribery, yes, that much is obvious. But I think this sort of bribery to encourage clan participation, rather than further attempts at indie nerfs, is preferable.
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Post by lyse on Feb 21, 2015 15:54:34 GMT -5
I like it too. I suggested something similar in the form of perks for each rank you achieve in an org. It doesn't even have to be something you can see on your sheet, just a hidden bump to reflect what your virtual life is when you're not logged on. To prevent twinking the bump is tied to your title so if you rebel, get kicked out or leave you lose it.
As it stands "you get free food and water and the prestige of working for my house" induces an eye twitch when I see a character say it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 16:13:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't be in favor of unlearning a skill you know, but I would be in favor of tying it to being lifesworn and stipulating that if you rebel, you WILL be hunted like a dog to the ends of the world, in order to discourage it.
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Post by lyse on Feb 21, 2015 17:56:22 GMT -5
I'm thinking about the meta of people who will undoubtedly join a clan just to get guard at the step above recruit, quit then move to the next clan to get subdue at the next step above recruit , rinse and repeat. That would eliminate that from happening.
It would actually be a benefit to your character and a RP bonus to something pertaining to your job. So if you're a Kadian hunter, at the step above recruit you get a bump to archery and throwing. Something that reflects that you are a competent hunter. At first hunter rank you get that bump, plus another bump, plus a bonus to wildlife. This represents the virtual backing you have of your virtual organization.
This is why I'm calling it a perk. It comes with the job, but if you lose the job, you lose the perk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 18:24:54 GMT -5
gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg869108#newTLDR - Join a clan and every 4 ooc months you get to add an appropriate skill to your character even if it didn't get it from race/guild/subguild. Such as byn clan members getting guard or Borsail Wyvrens getting sap. I know the board probably agrees on a whole that more skill fluidity is a good thing, but is this manner of skill fluidity a good idea? Does it successfully make being in a clan better than being a badass indie? Discuss, go! It sounds like two separate problems being lumped together. I agree it shouldnt be impossible to add a skill to a pc, and have a reasonable expectation on how that process works. I agree being lifebonded or otherwise dedicated to a clan is a problem in Arm. Leaders and social groups make clans. Each time I bonded one of my pcs into a clan, it resulted in storage or death. Don't bribe players to put up with boredom and poor mechanical design. Fix the problems instead. Give militant clans a rationed flow of npcs to train on, or, give all clan nobles or lieutenants the ability to give out a few tokens per month, with the tokens able to be redeemed with a trainer npc for small boosts to a short list of skills. Make the solution subject to corruption, betrayal, and competition leading to murder, not a free gimme.
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