Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
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Post by Patuk on Feb 12, 2015 20:40:48 GMT -5
What I don't get is how you can even abuse a warehouse. A warehouse isn't some kind of steel dagger, an op magical reach, or some kind of moilunt that fights along with you. It's a place with a lot of room, big whoop. Just what damage are you going to do with stowing all your logs, blocks of stone, and crafted shit somewhere? What harm is there in lots of dudes getting to spar someplace rather than out in the wilds or in apartments? The worst that could happen would be for some douche to nab a key and never log in again, and that's fixed as easily as saying 'go come back to us when you have the time because you're obviously not using it.'
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Post by lyse on Feb 12, 2015 21:03:45 GMT -5
What I don't get is how you can even abuse a warehouse. A warehouse isn't some kind of steel dagger, an op magical reach, or some kind of moilunt that fights along with you. It's a place with a lot of room, big whoop. Just what damage are you going to do with stowing all your logs, blocks of stone, and crafted shit somewhere? What harm is there in lots of dudes getting to spar someplace rather than out in the wilds or in apartments? The worst that could happen would be for some douche to nab a key and never log in again, and that's fixed as easily as saying 'go come back to us when you have the time because you're obviously not using it.' I think the fear is "Everybody will want one" or worse still more fun than a GMH. Suddenly everybody wants to play in the new upstart House Asspimples instead of Kadius, Salarr or Kurac. The reality is the GMH are only powerful because docs say so, so if one group gets a warehouse, then another group will want a warehouse, then nobody will want to play in the GMHs (even though that's kind of the case now) but the docs say GMH are monopolies, they crush the competition. More fun in the upstart...can't have that. |
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
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Post by Patuk on Feb 12, 2015 21:07:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't really call that abuse.. In fact, they already limit the number of warehouses rented to 2 per city, iirc. If everybody suddenly wants a warehouse, all they would need to do is say 'nope, can't give ya a warehouse, we're full. Arrange an accident for those dudes who do have one, I guess.'
So, I doubt it is that.
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Post by lyse on Feb 12, 2015 22:06:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't really call that abuse.. In fact, they already limit the number of warehouses rented to 2 per city, iirc. If everybody suddenly wants a warehouse, all they would need to do is say 'nope, can't give ya a warehouse, we're full. Arrange an accident for those dudes who do have one, I guess.' So, I doubt it is that. Well, here's the thing. As someone who's been a staffer before (no not on Arm) there's this thing that happens because.....human nature. Ok I give someone a warehouse, cool they earned it through rp (idealistically this should be the case) and having whatever other requirements I've set...in this case a very Byzantine set of requirements...that only a rules nerd can navigate through. Well guess what? The game is full of rules nerds and eventually someone will achieve what bar I've set. By hook or crook someone's going to do it. Whether it be that they have no life and play the game 12 hours a day/ 7 days a week or they legitimately do it (doubtful). Someone is going to get the million sids....and whatever crazy ass things I said you needed. (does this sound familiar? Like the wagon story and this is why they didn't give it) Now you have to give it to them and you've set a really bad precedent, you didn't really promote RP, you've promoted twinking. Guess what everybody else is going to do? Right...twink to get a warehouse. You really don't have a real reason to not give anyone who achieves this goal to not have a warehouse. Especially since realistically....a large city would have more than one or two warehouses....I could go on and on. But they really painted themselves in a corner with this one because it would open a floodgate. Tl:dr Everybody will want one and you don't want that. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 22:21:03 GMT -5
Now see, I don't see that as problematic in general. In a setting like the one in Arm it is, because the precedent of the merchant houses being more or less unbreakable to read the docs on them. That's why I say the ideal world would be fairly generic and lacking in high powered clans just written in. If players want badass clans, let the players be the impetus, rise, and ultimate destruction of them.  |
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Post by lyse on Feb 12, 2015 23:06:13 GMT -5
Now see, I don't see that as problematic in general. In a setting like the one in Arm it is, because the precedent of the merchant houses being more or less unbreakable to read the docs on them. That's why I say the ideal world would be fairly generic and lacking in high powered clans just written in. If players want badass clans, let the players be the impetus, rise, and ultimate destruction of them. I'm just saying what I think the staff's mindset is here. I definitely agree with you. I think they should have a whole warehouse district! Shit, let's rock out with that. You guys want it? Yes, we'll make it for you. There's not four warehouses there's twenty available! You can also build wagons and agrosies you can even buy NPC guards. Now burglars have a new place to burgle, warriors have other options besides GMH's or being a house guard. You'd have caravan guards, raiders...the whole nine. Merchants have Templars to bribe, alliances and rivalries would naturally form. There's your murder corruption and betrayal and you could literally make your own plots like they say they want you to. A lot of character types suddenly have become viable again. If it doesn't work out have the wrath of Tektolnes destroy it and start over with something else. I feel like players wants and staff's wants can coexist. The thing with Arm that bothers me the most is it could almost be a damned good game and nearly what the dream of 2.0 was without even having to make 2.0. Instead you just have....well you know....what we have. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 23:36:33 GMT -5
Nah, I caught that, and I meant that in agreement with you, because that IS the general position, and was agreeing with the assessment about the 'warehouse slippery slope' then expounding on my own thoughts on the scenario. <3 if I ever have the coding acumen and time at once to make a mud, it's going to more or less be a sandbox game, where the players drive EVERYTHING except the bare bones concepts that are laid out already, and if players don't like them and put in the time and effort to change them, they'll be able to.
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mesuinu
staff puppet account
Posts: 30 
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Post by mesuinu on Feb 13, 2015 1:09:24 GMT -5
PRPI was a player driven sandbox game. It ultimately failed because, in a large part, there was no direction whatsoever from immortals. There's a happy balance somewhere.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 1:27:43 GMT -5
I have a concept in mind where there are areas that are relatively small and spread out where staff avatars will generally be playing characters with the ability to dredge up insane world creating plots, but the general idea would be that you know where to play to get in on this, and you know where to play to avoid it, and if you make/do/change things in those small localized areas, expect that the stuff might be shot down/undone/whatevs, but outside of that, it's all player/player. It's a kinda complicated setting but an awesome one, because it IS largely generic fantasy, but if you dig or pursue or explore there's other stuff that can be used to great advantage or to drive plots. Like there's a tree that allows you to change race/appearance but you can only go through it once without dying. There's 14 continents which would be largely undeveloped, but in a triangular area centered on each is a tree, a statue/library, and a temple, one for each of these immortal beings. Each landmass has its own vibe and stuff, too. I had 7dv and his wife interested in working on building for a bit, but due to lack of a coder it didn't go anywhere. Of course, the beings war with each other over turf/mortals/various magickal toys/whatever, but it's less formal than 'this continent is against that one now', and more like miniature groups of combat affiliated people coming in to raid/get in dust ups/etc, in stretched out arcs that players can get in on if they don't want to make their own bigger storylines.
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Post by lyse on Feb 13, 2015 9:24:18 GMT -5
PRPI was a player driven sandbox game. It ultimately failed because, in a large part, there was no direction whatsoever from immortals. There's a happy balance somewhere. This is why I think staff should also be running small plots along with player driven plots. Everybody isn't a plot maker and everybody doesn't want to write a long ass detailed report weekly of what they've done. Some people just want to...play. Even if they did a plot where a spaceship landed in Meleth's circle players would roll with it. it wouldn't even have to be something big and jarring as that. Something as simple as Kadius looking for the rare blue duskhorn or something would make people immensely happy. Players plots could stem from that. Even if staff said we want you to do your own plots, they'd have to say here are the tools for that...or possibly make tools for that. But I'm with you, a collaboration is the best way. |
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mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
Posts: 335
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Post by mood on Feb 15, 2015 22:45:09 GMT -5
My argument is not that salters should be poorer, but that nobles should ACTUALLY be filthy rich. You are supposed to spread your coins around and use them to start plots. You are also supposed to keep the GMH clans in sid, via all your silly silly silks. Which often run to more than your stipend doubled for a full outfit. So the problem to me lies in the fact that nobles should simply make 10x what they do currently. I had mid tier Oash noble and my stipend was 3.5k. A single outfit of silks from Kadius, the merchant wanted to charge 8k for. That is a problem with noble pay. I used to get 10k with my 16 year old Oashi noble. This was back in 07ish? Maybe 08? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 22:53:48 GMT -5
My Oash was at the beginning of 2010. She was 20.
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