|
Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Nov 1, 2015 13:47:46 GMT -5
Maybe I'm in the wrong here, but itsn't it practically inviting someone to treat you like a fucktard when you respond to their complaint with something along the lines of "Oh yeah, those IC consequences you suffered? Totes the result of a clunky and inflexible code nonsense that you couldn't really have known beforehand because we're really tight-assed about keeping stuff like that from our players. Immersion or whatever. Oh, and it was basically your fault, this whole deal. Here's some mental gymnastics. Have a nice day! "
|
|
jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
|
Post by jesantu on Nov 1, 2015 14:03:16 GMT -5
I dunno man.... I feel that staff should have some degree of responsibility if they directly cause players to die to shoddy code, -especially- should said shoddy code cause the world to act in a way that makes absolutely no sense. Even more especially when you consider the silly shit they've given people resurrections for in the past. Remember when you'd subdue someone and attack them? It was like a super easy way to pkill. If you attacked a subdued person they were TOAST. And it was (maybe?) unfair. Well, let's not say it's unfair because someone who is essentially tied up should be able to be killed pretty damn quickly. But it's so easy and so tempting to exploit that some measure of fairness had to be set in place. For years people would die to this. They'd request a rez and be denied. Pearl gets ganked by youknowwho and has her corpse ldesc changed to show body parts strewn about everywhere. Her death was announced through the streets. Word got out about it fast. Not only did she get rezzed, they also changed the code so it wasn't possible anymore to pull this off. Some things never change. And that was a previous regime who were responsible, in an era where (female) player coddling was rampant. But it's hysterical how nyr referenced pearl some time this year as an example of a character who changed the world and grew to power and 'you can do it too!!' It's so over the top and so blatant you almost have to wonder if the guy is joking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 15:16:29 GMT -5
Was Nyr even playing during Pearl?
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Nov 1, 2015 15:38:27 GMT -5
I know staff has a history of some shady dealings. It's the same on any game, it's, sadly, human nature. These things cannot be eliminated entirely, although they can be adjusted somewhat, and I could be wrong but it appears that's what staff's trying to do... but current staff can't really be held accountable for the mistakes of previous administrations, that's not really fair, not to say that's what anyone is doing, just wanted to make that clear.
What's alarming to me is an increasingly systemic toxicity that needs to be observed, identified, and curbed before it reaches the proportions I witnessed firsthand with the Hellmoo meltdown. Players would very much like to have their efforts appreciated more, and subject to less instensive scrutiny and judgement. It seems, many times, to me at least, that staff, when dealing with players, start with some assumptions and preconcieved notions as to the intentions of players. It's possible staff would benefit greatly if they had a policy of speaking only in E-prime while communicating with players.
Nyr admitted, when addressing requests for an apology, from what I saw, that staff are human beings, make mistakes, and can't know everything. Well, that's a great start, I think. Now time for staff to find ways to observe their own attitudes and behaviors, and make adjustments. I'm not expecting a change to occur overnight, that would be foolish. I know many of you have a good deal of dislike for him, because you feel he is ruining the game you love. You're all very passionate about the game, and I know I read a profound post a while back that Dman made on the GDB about passionate players, and how people being passionate, intelligent, and confident can brew up some serious conflict and result in contempt, and concluded by saying that, with the quality he's seen in the RP on the game, he wouldn't trade the playerbase for one that ISN'T passionate about the game. I think this is a great observation, and while I'd like to see staff accept, observe, and adjust this, I think everyone's situation could change for the better if we ALL did this.
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Nov 1, 2015 15:47:11 GMT -5
Wow, could you imagine if I had typed that up in lolcat? I'm so glad I can stop doing that.
EDIT: I mean, I imagine it's going to require comprimise from both sides to get it to work. As much as I think Nyr and Nessalin should step down as producers and back into their previous roles, I'm not sure that request is entirely reasonable. Unbanning people and adjusting staff perspective for the better, however, is entirely within the realm of possibility.
You can't go at this balls-out like Asandas/purg or some of the more rabid, vocal members of this community would like to, that accomplishes nothing but ruining the game we would all like to see do well. I do honestly believe that staff can, potentially, make acceptable adjustments that benefit their players while casting themselves in a better light. Some hostility at perceived mistreatment is natural, I'm guilty of it to. But if you want things to change for the better, just as staff has to learn, have to set the ego aside, be honest with yourself, know your failings as a person, and resolve to be better about them. I know I'm guilty of some rather intense hostility at times, but these times are when I have to cool off, dial it down a little, and come back to it with a level head, while stopping yourself from projecting expectations and intentions on others. You can't let your ego get the better of you either, and that's a rough one. A lot of people have a sense of pride, that, when pressured, questioned, etc. fly off the handle, feel slighted. Pride can lead to us having, not only unrealistic expectations of ourselves, but a hot button that can get pushed all too easily. This is not to say don't be proud of anything, by all means, do so, this is to say, do not believe yourself to be incapable of having a failing or shortcoming, or making a mistake even if you do lots of good things, at least, from your perspective. It's something I have to remind myself of frequently.
|
|
|
Post by gloryhound on Nov 1, 2015 18:10:54 GMT -5
There is a thread about it that discusses it in depth. The one thing I remember from back there was that a recruit attacked. And then the other recruits joined in. That was a mistake of characters and training. It doesnt matter if it was attacking another soldier, a traitor, or a freaking Gaj in the sands. Recruits should have known that it wasnt them who initiates combat. Someone is usually designated to be on point, while the rest assist. The person on point was the Sargeant I'm assuming, who ... did not attack. For whatever reason. My assumption would be him thinking of possible consequences, or perhaps hoping to emote it out, or was just staling behind, it doesnt matter. So recruits ... broke rank and attacked first. So they died for breaking formation. There's no way to deny that the crimcode made the NPCs behave in ways that were totally at odds with how they should have. The half-giant soldier who grabbed the templar instantly made himself a traitor when he did so. No NPC soldier with the templar should have defended the half-giant. The templar screamed "Kill him!" at his followers, a direct order to kill the half-giant. Case closed. So now you're trying to say that new characters, who may well have never played in the AoD before and almost certainly had no experience in attacking soldiers while part of the AoD before, should have known exactly how to navigate the crimcode in the heat of the moment while their templar was in danger and screaming "Kill him!". Good grief, I can just hear the rationalization wheel squeaking as the hamster runs. The staff should have said "Yes, it was not their fault and the crimcode does not work optimally. Nevertheless, we won't resurrect them as we feel it would be too jarring to the game. Sorry". That is all that would have been needed, instead of bullshit justifications like yours here.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Nov 1, 2015 18:49:04 GMT -5
If I had been told what gloryhound said, instead of this: That is to say, Nyr had actually shown some effort in caring about the ramifications of the staff team's failure, then I might not have been so "problematic."
What they all failed to realize is that the crimcode how it applies to recruits (in this situation) was not documented at all on the AoD clan board. In fact, the complete opposite was accepted as truth on the AoD board at that time. I had to specifically highlight contrary information provided by previous clan leaders which were falsehoods, and write out my own summarization of crimcode so that this wouldn't happen again. Before, it was a collection of vague situations and etc. nowhere near approaching animated NPC soldiers attacking a Templar.
In essence, that too is a lie.
Edit: Cavaticus burned my nose when I pointed out these previous clan leaders had posted contrary information that we were working on, and he basically said it was our fault for believing it. Believing information posted on the clan forum makes it our fault? Overall, not only did Cavaticus (and Talia) fail to provide an adequate understanding of the crim-code... they allowed falsehoods to be accepted as fact by the newer players without moderating it.
The information was, if a recruit assists a full soldier, they won't get crim-coded. We all know that now to be untrue; we didn't know that beforehand, because 1. previous clan leaders were operating under that falsehood, and 2. the staff team didn't take any effort to clarify or moderate those misleading statements.
You can laugh all you want at us being ignorant of the crim-code, since it's common knowledge to you and your years of experience with the arbitrariness of the code. The only thing I could do to make sure it never happened again, was to write it out. And I guess I'm still writing now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 19:14:20 GMT -5
Do you think its possible to just paste the whole log of that event? The one I read was pretty heavily edited. Just totally data dump it. Way I recall reading it was that the recruits attacked ahead of the Sargeant.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 19:50:49 GMT -5
I thought it was two different factions within the Arm under the leadership of two different templars - ministry [*of war] vs. trade? Soldier of one attacks the other side, then the crim-flag goes off since they're the enemy. There was some other stuff going on at the time too from what I heard. I had a character but my character wasn't involved in any of it, only heard it like third-hand. It was something really convoluted like Tuluk did something to the minds of people and sent them to infiltrated Allanak as spies and something else, and that's how the two templar ministries ended up duking it out in the streets.
Like I said I wasn't involved in any of it and only heard it third-hand (maybe fourth?) so I might be mixing up the sequence of things?
*edited because I meant the ministry of war vs. ministry of trade, not the ministry vs. trade.
|
|
|
Post by latrineswimmer on Nov 1, 2015 20:16:16 GMT -5
I think there should have either been a resurrection or apology. There should be documents on AoD boards explaining crimecode for fuck sake, AoD gets a lot of new players and having crime code not in the hands of these recruits is ridiculous.
That being said....
You spent too much time on your cross though, Purg, and you did Kronibuster. My sympathy was with you to begin with and still is for the first part, but staff really had no choice but to ban you. They didn't even ban you when you posted on here to begin with just when you went all Tropic Thunder.
|
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Nov 1, 2015 20:47:31 GMT -5
Do you think its possible to just paste the whole log of that event? The one I read was pretty heavily edited. Just totally data dump it. Way I recall reading it was that the recruits attacked ahead of the Sargeant. its not edited to the point where it would put the parts hes talking about into doubt. an aide and a recruit both attacked on their own, and then the wyvern and another recruit assisted purg a round or so later, and all four got crimcoded. that wyvern guy was insanely lucky to get out of that alive tho cuz not only was he crimcoded but he forgot to draw weapons and was fighting with his fists lol. the only reason he lived where the others didnt was because the giant he was fighting died in the same round that the unit npc killed purgs last recruit and so since no one was fighting the unit npc subdued him instead of attacking him just look at this sad shit here lolol
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Nov 1, 2015 20:51:18 GMT -5
I saw a crimcode, ahem, "feature" up close and personal not long ago. I was mad at first, but when I calmed down and really thought about it, it wasn't the soldier, or the officer's fault. I won't discuss specifics but I hope staff sees it as a bug and clears it up so they can do their job properly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 20:59:41 GMT -5
Can someone link me where you found the log, Jkarr? The log I read is different. Maybe it's buried in a thread somewhere. Ugh.
|
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Nov 1, 2015 21:00:14 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 22:09:02 GMT -5
Yeaaaaaaah. What a fuck fest. While yes, the silvering sleek-haired man and the sleek, silver-bearded male broke rank, the bosomy chick didnt and she still died to crim-code shenanigans. The Imms could definitely dealt with this better. Even if no rez was granted.
|
|