Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 17:05:13 GMT -5
They shouldn't be allowed to. It's a stupid rule, even if it's only allowed for admins and not lower-level staff. Armageddon has always needed more reasonable restrictions for what staff members are allowed to do on their characters. Allowing anybody to be online with a mortal PC and an omnipotent+omniscient immortal account at the same time is begging for abuse, which we've seen time and time again throughout the years. Staff PCs should be played as PCs, and if an admin wants to know or do more than a mortal PC is capable of, they should use a plot NPC instead.
On most of the other RPIs, not even the game director was allowed to be on the player port with their admin account while playing their PC. It's completely impossible to roleplay fairly and realistically when you can see everything that's going on everywhere in the whole game in real-time, and this is doubly important for Armageddon where admins have historically had a tendency to play far more powerful and important PCs than staff members should frankly be playing. Arm has always had a problem in that regard, with staff membership being a ticket to in-game power and with this playing far too great a role in many players' motivations for wanting to join staff. It has led to a lot of abuse and a lot of admins who don't belong anywhere near staff.
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
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Post by drunkendwarf on Mar 24, 2014 12:47:15 GMT -5
I whole heartedly agree with Delerak in that staff shouldn't be allowed to have an active imm account and active PC account at the same time. Want to play a PC? Great...admins inactivate your staff account for a period of time, play your PC, become active again when you're done. The whole system is just begging for abuse. It'd be like me creating a character to run alongside my players at the gaming table. The very idea of it is absolutely ridiculous to me. And "oh staff can't be in charge of a clan that their PC is in" etc etc...it doesn't matter. As an imm, you've got access to shit your character will never know. And regardless of what you might -think-, it can be quite difficult to act with your character as though you don't know that stuff. Staff just shouldn't be allowed to be active staff and have a PC at the same time. Create a rotating schedule, bring on more staff to accommodate the fact you'll having them cycling through and get the whole thing worked out. It shouldn't be that difficult.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Mar 24, 2014 17:31:02 GMT -5
Been saying it for years man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 20:22:07 GMT -5
The people who you guys have the most complaints about that are still on staff as admins etc now... are all the same people who do not play. And the ones who get the best reviews are the ones who (at least when I left) still played. Just something to think on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 22:34:10 GMT -5
Very great and awesome point, Anaiah.
In my opinion, it should be mandatory required for Imms to play. And let them be active Imms at the time. Abuses happen, but they also get caught. Even in case of Kivan and Uruz, Uruz never used his knowledge to fuck somebody up, nor did he increase any of his skills and spells and such similar shit. The days of Bhag and Halaster are over and any abuse of "that" magnitude will be caught on. These days, abuse is a little bit more insidious. But removing ability to play will make things only worse, not better. It will make people who love the game, the gameplay, and the spirit of the game to say fuck it, and return to being players. Or worse, remain Imms and slowly slowly drift away to a point of leaving Immage and Arming as whole. Or even worse yet, getting jaded by talking to those imms who are already jaded, and then gradually turning into Nyr.
Anyone here ever witnessed a change in psyche of a person who becomes a cop? In a year, their asshole stat increases five fold. For a good and understandable reason. If you sever an Imm's ability to remember what it is to be player, something like that will happen to them eventually.
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
Posts: 211
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Post by drunkendwarf on Mar 25, 2014 9:58:19 GMT -5
Very great and awesome point, Anaiah. In my opinion, it should be mandatory required for Imms to play. And let them be active Imms at the time. Abuses happen, but they also get caught. Even in case of Kivan and Uruz, Uruz never used his knowledge to fuck somebody up, nor did he increase any of his skills and spells and such similar shit. The days of Bhag and Halaster are over and any abuse of "that" magnitude will be caught on. These days, abuse is a little bit more insidious. But removing ability to play will make things only worse, not better. It will make people who love the game, the gameplay, and the spirit of the game to say fuck it, and return to being players. Or worse, remain Imms and slowly slowly drift away to a point of leaving Immage and Arming as whole. Or even worse yet, getting jaded by talking to those imms who are already jaded, and then gradually turning into Nyr. Anyone here ever witnessed a change in psyche of a person who becomes a cop? In a year, their asshole stat increases five fold. For a good and understandable reason. If you sever an Imm's ability to remember what it is to be player, something like that will happen to them eventually. Disagree. When I sign up to run a D&D campaign, I know what I'm signing up for. I won't get to play. I'll be running the show. You know what I do if I want to play a character at the same time? Go join someone else's campaign.
We're not talking a permanent ban on playing PC's. Just not allowing active immortal and PC accounts at the same time. How the hell are you supposed to act like everyone else when you've essentially had a God's eye view of the entire world? It's a stretch enough to allow someone to play PC's after they've had a glimpse behind the curtains to begin with, but to allow them to keep looking back there while playing a PC is just crazy. You know the first thing I'd do if I was given an imm account on Armageddon? Explore. The entire mud. From top to bottom. How exactly does that not give me an advantage over your average player?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 10:39:30 GMT -5
Conversely, how are you supposed to know that those 10 complaining players are not full of shit in their complaint, if you aren't allowed to be a player and experience the game from the player's POV? I can see it from both perspectives. People say "oh this staffer is so far removed from the needs of the players she's clueless and needs to be fired." And then other people say "oh this staffer is obviously playing that character as his PC, and since he's a staffer he knows all the game secrets and that's not far and he should be fired."
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
That's why I think it should be mandatory that staffers play a PC but that their PC not be involved in anything their staff-led clans are involved in, and that their staff-self never be logged in at the same time as their PC. Plus I agree with the current rules that staffers aren't allowed to play sponsored roles. I think that's what the rules are supposed to be now, except the "mandatory that they play a PC" part. I really think Nyr should have to play as maybe an independent nobody hunter out of Red Storm or Allanak at least an hour a RL week. I think that'd help him "connect" with the players better.
Transparency: I have been a staff member in other games. Never any RPIs though. My perspective is as a player of Arm, an ex-staffer of other games, and a reader of game forums such as this.
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
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Post by drunkendwarf on Mar 25, 2014 11:18:44 GMT -5
Conversely, how are you supposed to know that those 10 complaining players are not full of shit in their complaint, if you aren't allowed to be a player and experience the game from the player's POV? Communication. After every session in D&D, I sit down with my players for 10 minutes and we just talk about the campaign, how things went that evening, any questions/complaints/compliments/etc they want to bring up, either directed at me or another player. Everyone has agreed to receive constructive criticism in a mature manner. The point of my campaign is for my players to have fun. If they're not, something is wrong and needs to be fixed immediately. If every staffer were to do the same thing, just with the clans they're responsible for, you'd get a picture of how things are going. And you'd know whether or not any particular player was full of shit. If you've got ten complaining players...chances are very high that they're not full of shit. Especially if you have a history of communication with each player in this manner..you can start to learn which ones may tend to whine more about little things, etc.
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Post by jcarter on Mar 25, 2014 13:46:46 GMT -5
Transparency: I have been a staff member in other games. Never any RPIs though. My perspective is as a player of Arm, an ex-staffer of other games, and a reader of game forums such as this. arm is a rpi
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 14:09:35 GMT -5
Transparency: I have been a staff member in other games. Never any RPIs though. My perspective is as a player of Arm, an ex-staffer of other games, and a reader of game forums such as this. arm is a rpi I'm pretty sure my post didn't need any clarification. But thanks just the same.
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Post by jcarter on Mar 25, 2014 14:20:55 GMT -5
just was making sure you knew in case you wanted to go back and edit but ok i guess we can consider this to be an environment where you roleplay joe schmoe player
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Post by themountaingoat on Mar 25, 2014 15:49:56 GMT -5
you guys are cute with the bickering and preteen girl cattiness
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Post by moofassa on Apr 1, 2014 10:23:02 GMT -5
Game is stagnant. Nothing new really happens. I like games where my character can change the world. I got a noble role once, read the documentation, and it was like... shit the docs are exactly the same as they were fucking years ago. Why bother with a social role when everyone is going to stay enemies for years, no political change, and trying to play a diplomat is guaranteed to fail because it goes against the docs? That was the breaking point for me. I tried to make that character work, but couldn't and just stored and played mundane indies since then.
Codebase of Arm works against roleplaying. There's twinky shit that's part of the game and twinky shit that's not. Sleep in the 'rinth ~= death sentence or being stripped naked by a NPC. So nobody sleeps and that's perfectly fine? Imbalanced economy. Having a crafting skill, but not being able to craft. 40 year olds in a dirt poor world not knowing how to cook their own damn steak.
Account notes are harsh and unfair. I looked at it once and it just stood out. No positive notes for the weeks of consistent roleplay, but a note for a temporary side thing from that roleplay that made someone laugh. Bad account notes were complete NEWBIE mistakes or IN CHARACTER. Fine if you want to bitch in-game about my AOD dwarf going down to Storm. It was a damn dwarf, doing a focus related thing. Why put it on my permanent record when he's doing what's completely logical for him? Staff are just going to read that as twinky when out of context. Just fucking animate a clan boss and contact my char to whip or torture him.
I don't care about karma. Only played the karma roles once to try and die almost instantly and go back to mundanes. But the unfair treatment is so discouraging when you put hours into that stuff.
I tolerate the game every now and then, but a week of playing makes me back out.
I don't care that much about staff playing psions and skirting some rules. As long as they're not involved in PvP. Staff, if anyone, are best suited to the psions. But it's lame for the GM of a game to play the high level characters. Leave the high level stuff purely for players. Oh but it's a thematic thing, where the majority of characters are helpless, some take on a helpless BDSM feel.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 1, 2014 23:06:51 GMT -5
I don't think anything can compare to Bhag multiplaying on Ihshan. Bhag would literally fuck up and sometimes do shit with the wrong character and walk in on shit with his imm instead of being on isahn. Pretty funny actually. He's the reason imms were banned from playing templars. anyone know if that ban got lifted? As for me... eh, well, this will be redundant since I rant about it all the time. Ill summarize. Exasperationquit (around the time of Arm2):- Staff hatred of player-driven anything
- Staff sabotage of players
- Staff assassination of players
- Staff favoritism
- Staff being loosely managed to the point it was like high school between classes, with cliques forming behind-the-scenes which I have from a reliable insider
- Some of the staff being insane, incompetent, or fuckwads
- A couple of the staff being insane and incompetent fuckwads
- Intrastaff disconnect regarding what was going on in the game
- The fucking pretentious, fake-diplomatic pompous asshats of the GDfuckingB. ever wonder why I get nasty with people for their cowardly little underhanded slights? That's why. i will beat you until you talk shit the way you should for your age. Insult me like you're an adult, not like youre a 16 year old turning your nose up at your little brother, and I am way nicer. Contradictory as it seems. (Not that you should be afraid of words, of course. )
- Poor karma distribution/recognition system
- Karma-related abuse
- Confusing "realism" with "good"
- Staff thinking the playerbase are a captive audience for their in-game fanfiction
- Valuing RPTs over helping people keep themselves active duringthe months in between
Ragequit (a few months ago):- Staff hatred of player-driven anything. Nyr and above.
- Staff sabotage of players. mainly from Nyr
- Staff assassination of players. mainly from Nyr
- Staff thinking the playerbase are a captive audience for their in-game fanfiction
- Nyr rewriting docs to support his changes to Tuluk.
- Nyr ruinng Tuluk. it's kind of like destroying a sandcastle after uit washed away but he managed to find a way.
- Nyreaucracy
- Nyr
- A small number of the staff being Nyr or Nyresque. i didn't interact with many staffers, and most of them were great.
- Poor karma distribution/recognition system
- Karma-related abuse
- Confusing "active events constantly happening that players can't control to bring the world alive" with "good"
- Valuing RPTs over helping people keep themselves active duringthe months in between
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