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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 20:26:25 GMT -5
To be frank, it might just be a thing they've banned or changed because of the reactions of people to the ones doing it.
The thing they changed so you can't have pc tribes? Yeah, that was because of me. I had a pc who wound up the lone head elder of a tribe, whose mate was the mate of the last scion of its actual people previously. His goal was to see the tribe stirred back to life, so I went all out in game to try and make that happen with my pc, and was so successful with it (with no spying, help or intervention) on a pc-alliance level basis, that they were pretty much untouchable. That is when staff sent emails to the chick's mates player, and told me, that recruiting was to stop and they were changing the recruiting in-game rules so that you couldn't build tribes. Funny, amirite?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 20:37:15 GMT -5
As if that made things stop. Remove the word "tribe", and make it a "community".
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Post by nobodyatall on Jan 13, 2014 18:45:39 GMT -5
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Jan 14, 2014 3:31:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 15:06:29 GMT -5
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Post by demonspongecake on Jan 22, 2014 13:00:23 GMT -5
So I noticed people were talking about inappropriate clans that don't fit the game's vibe in the Tuluk thread.
Why the fuck is the Byn the only 'poor' coded faction in the game? It's like every other clan was some Imm's baby at some point, so was made incredibly powerful and wealthy.
What a way to stagnate the politics of the game - everyone's constantly being told not to mess with -insertclanhere-
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 14:34:47 GMT -5
Only because someone "says" not to mess with them, does not mean you shouldnt. What it does mean though that a lone indie guy wont be able to "DEFEAT" an entire merchant house, or whatever, by sniping off their PC playerbase. Killing off every PC member of a house is 'not' a win. It just means you killed 0.01% of it. So to 'defeat' it, you have to align with other factions, other clans, rp, create plots, etc, etc. Instead of just going on a kill spree.
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Post by demonspongecake on Jan 22, 2014 16:37:41 GMT -5
My point was more to do with why, in this brutal and harsh setting, the majority of people are playing as part of rich and powerful organizations. I think you'd get more rp, plots etc with a bunch of virtually smaller mercenary, merchant and crime guilds in direct competition with each other.
I dont't quite buy your argument that clans are enourmous and powerful to stop single pcs from destroying them!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 17:13:40 GMT -5
They are enormous and powerful enough to stop single PCs from destroying them, singlehandedly. On the other hand, if that PC has a network of people who consider that clan an "enemy," and they get all their ducks in a row, can coordinate with the staff the times and places and people, they can in fact bring a clan to its knees. Red Fang vs. Sun Runners comes to mind. This was done as the result of PCs doing what the players RPed out. Yes, there was staff intervention, and yes, there were staff effects and echoes. But the staff would have had nothing to get involved IN, in the first place, if the players hadn't RPed hostilities between the clans and organized fights between them.
The problem is that a lot of players think these independant merchant groups are powerful. They're not. The players of a lot of these groups just think they're a lot more influential than they are. When in actuality, they're tools of someone who really IS influential. And as soon as that influential person is dead, the independent group falls apart. This has happened recently, and it's happened in the past.
When indie clan A's only sphere of influence is a templar, and no one really liked clan A but tolerated it because the templar was giving his blessing... what do you -think- will happen to clan A, when templar dies? Answer: Clan A ceases to be clan A, and its PC independent maxed-out merchant PC is going to be instructed to join Salarr or Kadius, or get lost. And of course Salarr and Kadius doesn't want him, because he's already proven what a twink he is, and that no one likes him, and that he has no interest in actually being a subordinate in a clan. So he ends up storing, or dying. And all his minions either get absorbed into clans that actually appreciate them, or they store or die too.
Such is the way of independents who think they can put one over on a GMH.
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Post by jonsmith on Jan 22, 2014 18:37:19 GMT -5
The ramblings of a woman who doesn't like penis in her vagina and calls it rape and control by men.... Which I find hilarious because I know plenty of women who LOVE penis in their vaginas... Crazy Feminists!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 18:44:14 GMT -5
There are certain difficulties with having small groups of mercenaries/hunters/merchants, instead of powerful 90% virtual houses. One such difficulty is that small groups are severely encouraged to cooperate with ... everybody.
A small group that's barely eeking out a living, will not shun an elf or a breed, if it means better profit for them. Members of an all powerful clan 'would', because ICly, they can afford to and are expected to by their superiors and the reputation their superiors want to upkeep.
The all powerful clans are divided in niches. We need slaving houses to explain slavery as a concept in the game. And so we have Winrothol/Borsail. And so on. Smaller groups do not need to specialize, they're not going to fit any kind of a niche. Fuck, a smaller group can just tell the economy, the nobility, the society to go fuck itself, and go salt. Let's admit, salting in Allanak is more profitable then any silk, weapons, slaving, alcohol trade. Allanak's gates should be built out of salt, considering how much of it is going through Jal's hands.
In other words. Small groups will not allow an interesting, in depth description of the game world as a real, breathing, rich world, full of intricacies and interconnected complexities.
In my personal opinion. The fact that so many people "choose" to remain independent, instead of joining a house and becoming subject to their 'schedules' dumb rules, dumb leaders, and dumb societal norms, is why the interclan conflict is so boring.
Every time Kurac managed to recruit up and train up itself more then 10 people in it's military ops, something happened that involved a lot of kick ass plots. Fact is, whenever a clan gets big enough in player population, Imms and fate comes up with interesting, usually world affecting plots. What's a point of coming up with plots when the clan is a total of 3 PCs, 'at best'. Believe me, if all 3 merchant houses were full of people. Eventually, the houses would start nipping at each other's areas of income. Nobody right now can even believe Salarr could 'own' the world, but every time I remember it's ED era, I get a small orgasm in my pants.
What does it even matter if GMH and such like are all powerful and wealthy? The power and wealth is all mostly virtual. An indie salter can rack in 1000 a day. An average ranked member of a Noble house earns 300 a month. A GMH average rank earns 500 maybe? In exchange, they usually cannot greb, go out of the city, and do things that indies can do to earn money. Thing is ... it's not about the power, or the wealth, that people play for in those clans. It's about the 'niche', and purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 19:42:57 GMT -5
See, to me... the problem lies with the fact that it's 400 for an 'average' "decent" apartment (aka somewhere private outside a clan compound to put personal effects and more or less "play house", and this is 400 2x/month, it's really 800/month, and your average clanned pay is 300/month. So you won't be able to do what, in my experience, the vast majority of people like to do. But then... it's not just rent... to get a buzz, if you're in the south, you need at least a bottle of sky draught, in my experience, which is 40 coins (right about), so let's say 1k sid, 2x/month to make a 2k sid monthly pay would actually be more in line with the prices, if you want to think about figuring the cost of the rent and such for an equivalent in, etc. I think double rent on a decent average apartment so you can get an apartment and 10 drinks is not unreasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 20:19:07 GMT -5
If the -only- income you are capable of acquiring is your clanned salary, with no bonuses, no "boss buying the drinks this week cause his clannies are just that awesome," no outside interests, no commission, no free gear, no looting of corpses or finding of random crap on the ground...
then you're doing something wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 20:55:04 GMT -5
Really the issue is that almost all the established roles in this game are so... empty. They're like a fake facade. There isn't actually a need for the vast majority of the types of characters that can be made.
You don't need hunters. Clans don't need to actually obtain food, they all either get it literally for free in unlimited amounts or are in an area where getting food is effortless for anybody. Water is likewise so easy to get that the whole "water is scarce" mantra is a farce. Skins are nice to have access to as a crafter, but it's not like anybody actually needs them because...
Crafting in this game is a JOKE. Like seriously. Even if you tolerate the ancient, piss-poor crafting system itself, there's just no need for almost any of what can be crafted. Sometimes people will buy something out of fucking politeness and to throw you a bone, but the stuff they actually want is stuff that generally can't be crafted. Crafting on Armageddon is just another way to earn cash off of NPC shops, and anyone who has ever had the displeasure of playing a GMH merchant can attest to the fact that you can go many months without anybody ordering anything that you would then go and ask a clan crafter to make. Everything that people need can be bought from shops in limitless quantities and no waiting list or risk of the guy failing the craft, and none of what they want can be made by PCs. Crafting could be removed entirely and the game wouldn't really change significantly. There's no demand for crafted products and no shortage of necessary equipment.
For that matter, you don't need GMH merchants, either. That has got to be one of the most boring roles in the history of roleplaying. You take orders, you mail your clan admin with a list of what people want, and then you wait three weeks for it to be loaded up. That is the extent of a GMH merchant's job. You can cram in some other stuff at your own discretion, and will need to do so in order to not die IRL of disinterest, but devoting 1-3 PCs per GMH to the task of running messages between customers and clan admins is idiotic. I believe the retirement rate of these PCs in the first six months of play is close to 90%.
You also don't need guards. Not only does anybody who might actually need a guard get access to NPCs, it's also nearly impossible to actually carry out the job of being a guard because any method used in a serious PKing attempt is impossible to react to as a mundane fighter. People don't murder sponsored roles by walking up to them in plain view and typing 'kill svelte.' It's not even that I think the role of a guard should be a necessity, because it's boring as fuck to play, but there shouldn't be half a dozen clans devoted to that job.
The need for PC law enforcers is perilously close to zero, too. You can play a soldier and go months without witnessing a crime. In fact, it's overwhelmingly unlikely for a soldier to ever get to do any of the things that a soldier is actually supposed to do. The criminal side of the game has always been hilariously underpopulated, and even in the rare, brief windows of time where a few do exist, the game is so twink-friendly that anyone with the slightest bit of knowhow can max their relevant skills in safety and never get caught doing anything. People don't go around stealing from other players unless they've maxed steal, and picking locks doesn't even invoke the fucking crimcode. Nobody is doing any of the shit that the common soldier is tasked to deal with. It's a dead job, you just train and wait around for the annual HRPT.
For that matter, what do nobles do? Is there a single noble house in either city-state whose iconic purpose is actually gameplay-relevant? Let's go through them:
Borsail: Slavery -- you don't even take PC slaves. As a matter of fact, you can't do any slavery whatsoever without an admin throwing you an RPT dedicated to it, because it's not as though you can just head out to some existing NPC tribe and capture them, nor are there bands of NPC travellers you can prey on. This house's defining characteristic has zero gameplay application.
Fale: Parties -- okay, this has potential to actually be doable in-game, but it's not as though this happens regularly enough to matter, nor are these parties significant in any way. Party roleplay has always been some of the worst, most annoying, and least suitable to a MUD medium because you can't fucking roleplay with fifteen PCs in one room. This house's defining characteristic has minor gameplay application, but minimal actual value.
Oash: Wine -- what the fuck. Wine? A noble house whose directive is to make wine. A clan devoted to the making of a beverage. I realize they've often done more than that and have traditionally been involved in a fair bit of intrigue, but that has been completely irrespective of the House's actual design and place in the setting. They also "hire gemmers," which occasionally leads to mildly interesting plotlines involving like four players and has no influence whatsoever on the game at large. This entire clan could just have been merged with any other House. Zero gameplay application and a ridiculous concept.
Tor: Military -- this clan has always had a weird part to play. They don't enforce the law, they aren't really for hire, they don't go out and do anything by themselves, and they don't have significant property to protect. They're army reserves whose only purpose is to be interchangable with AotD soldiers during the annual HRPT. It's effectively a sparring clan. Minor gameplay application and no importance whatsoever to anything ever.
I forget which houses are/were playable in Tuluk because I haven't played in ages, but it's basically the same there. The bottom line is that Armageddon is a game where there's no real need for any of the characters you play, it's all completely make-believe and contrived, often completely against the code and the realities of the gameplay. Instead of designing the game so that crafters, hunters, foragers, soldiers and merchants are needed, they have a game where all the roles are explicitly unneeded and people are expected to play them despite that fact. Is it any wonder that pretty much every clan is perpetually underpopulated? Is it any wonder this game fosters such overwhelming bitterness and vigilante grief roleplay? Is it any wonder this is the only RPI MUD that has ever had forums dedicated to discussing how shit the game turns out to be once you've played for a while and looked behind the curtains?
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Post by jcarter on Jan 22, 2014 21:06:06 GMT -5
See, to me... the problem lies with the fact that it's 400 for an 'average' "decent" apartment (aka somewhere private outside a clan compound to put personal effects and more or less "play house", and this is 400 2x/month, it's really 800/month, and your average clanned pay is 300/month. So you won't be able to do what, in my experience, the vast majority of people like to do. But then... it's not just rent... to get a buzz, if you're in the south, you need at least a bottle of sky draught, in my experience, which is 40 coins (right about), so let's say 1k sid, 2x/month to make a 2k sid monthly pay would actually be more in line with the prices, if you want to think about figuring the cost of the rent and such for an equivalent in, etc. I think double rent on a decent average apartment so you can get an apartment and 10 drinks is not unreasonable. the question that never seems to get asked, and certainly not answered, is why is there such a barrier for players to have a dump room for their equipment, and a private room for meetings? It's pretty clearly not an IC issue (a whopping 400 sids when your average commoner is destitute and can barely afford water?), so there's some mentality from the staff that's sayign let's make this space a luxury because...?
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