jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Aug 29, 2013 7:46:32 GMT -5
I would like to suggest that we invite NYR to come on as himself and actually listen to the player base. However, I suggest tempering our rhetoric and speaking to him calmly
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Post by jcarter on Aug 29, 2013 9:08:56 GMT -5
Nyr will never post here because people can actually return his characteristic snark and call him out for what he is: a nearing 30 ginger that's already going bald and has watched his numerous shitty bands absolutely flounder. He has no career aspirations because he has no career and is just now struggling to get into one due to a lack of education or meaningful background beyond spending what I'd guesstimate as 30+ hours a week running a stagnant game on an obscure aging system into the ground. Nyr's only going to post in a place like the GDB, where he can control the discussion by locking or deleting posts and players won't return his condescending attitude because of his position.
I'm not too fond of the idea personally but if other people really want it then go for it. I'll auth the account and I won't ban or moderate the discussion outside of admin crap like moving posts if need be, but I won't hold any punches either.
For what it's worth I doubt he'll ever come here. I haven't even once been contacted by the staff about the site or the boards because I don't think they like hearing 'fuck off' when they can't dock karma. I don't think they'll let themselves get dragged into any kind of extended discussion without having control over it.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Aug 29, 2013 10:34:55 GMT -5
So what you're saying is, 'Go for it if you can pull it off', BUT you doubt he will.
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Post by jcarter on Aug 29, 2013 10:51:35 GMT -5
Yeah I have no problem with it.
You guys can pretty much do whatever you want here outside of the legally dubious (threatening players, passing around torrents for movies/music) and discussing politics/religion. The latter because it just absolutely shits up the forum and will turn this place into the GDB. Other than that, anything goes. Want to call out players? Go for it. Discuss The Golden Years? No problem. PM each other to organize activity in game? Have at it. Make fun of Sanvean's new book deal? Not my problem. Organize things for other RPIs or games, go right on ahead. If you guys want to just get into slapfights with each other that's cool too, but I'm probably going to create a separate subforum and move posts there so that it's not derailing threads.
My goal is to just facilitate things and take a hands off approach. I'll put my foot down on a couple of issues like no I'm not going to support voting for Arm to artificially inflate it's popularity when there's more deserving out there, but other than that you guys have free reign.
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on Aug 29, 2013 17:15:04 GMT -5
Jcarter pretty much said all there is to say on Nyr.
If Nyr was invited to this forum, there would be a surge of people posting to tell off, and point out ever instance of his hypocrisy on the forums. I bet it wouldn't even just be players but staff too, creating anonymous accounts just to finally be able to let it all out and maybe even asking him to quit.
Other then that there would be no point in talking to the guy, if you want to offer suggestion and stuff he isn't even the person to talk to. You need to bring someone like Morgenes here and convince him to code more things in the game. Interestingly enough its probably not coded changes the players want but concept and world changed, therefore we would need to speak to Adhira or Ness and convince them to change to bring about change to the mud. However, good luck with that I sometimes get the feeling they are more tired and jaded about the mud than most vet players combined. Adhira sometimes sounds like she doesn't even like being on staff anymore, just hasn't found anything better to do with her time yet.
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Post by topkekm8s on Aug 29, 2013 17:37:25 GMT -5
Well now he definitely never will.
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muddy
Clueless newb
Posts: 61
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Post by muddy on Aug 29, 2013 17:37:51 GMT -5
Jcarter pretty much said all there is to say on Nyr. If Nyr was invited to this forum, there would be a surge of people posting to tell off, and point out ever instance of his hypocrisy on the forums. I bet it wouldn't even just be players but staff too, creating anonymous accounts just to finally be able to let it all out and maybe even asking him to quit. Other then that there would be no point in talking to the guy, if you want to offer suggestion and stuff he isn't even the person to talk to. You need to bring someone like Morgenes here and convince him to code more things in the game. Interestingly enough its probably not coded changes the players want but concept and world changed, therefore we would need to speak to Adhira or Ness and convince them to change to bring about change to the mud. However, good luck with that I sometimes get the feeling they are more tired and jaded about the mud than most vet players combined. Adhira sometimes sounds like she doesn't even like being on staff anymore, just hasn't found anything better to do with her time yet. I think Nyr does a lot but what pisses me off is the "My way or the highway" shit with an all or nothing reaction if you disagree with him. Staff should operate in the grey giving the benefit of the doubt to people. I get the feeling that a good chunk of the staff sits looking for what you're doing wrong and why you shouldn't get Karma and not enough time thinking why you should for what you do right. |
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Post by topkekm8s on Aug 29, 2013 18:00:27 GMT -5
An open dialogue would be nice. I'm pretty sure there are some staffers already posting here unofficially.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Aug 29, 2013 18:20:56 GMT -5
Plenty of ex-staff I assure you that.
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Post by sunrunner23 on Aug 31, 2013 8:12:44 GMT -5
Any dialogue that starts with "Nyr has redhair and I don't like him." isn't a dialogue. So no, nobody here is actually going to come here and parlay with the people.
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Post by jcarter on Aug 31, 2013 13:05:54 GMT -5
The staff doesn't do 'dialogues'. They do heavily moderated conversations where criticisms are deflected away with the handwaving of 'well you're wrong but I can't reveal IC discussion'. If things don't go their way, delete under pretense of 'trolling', hem and haw with 'we discussed this ten years ago and finalized our decision then', or just lock the thread and talk about how it isn't accomplishing anything.
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on Aug 31, 2013 14:22:11 GMT -5
I agree. There has never been open dialog between staff and players. I mean sure there have been some discussions but they are very censored and limited. The GDB has never allowed for truly open criticism. Sadly, being able to criticize is what is really needed to improve anything.
This is why i think this forum is valuable, it allows players, ex-staff and yes i do believe even current staff member to openly discuss things. Maybe we won't have old staff members posting but I'm sure we'll have some lower level or new staff members secretly giving their opinions. In time i think people will move away from the GDB and begin posting here anonymously.
On a side note, a couple things this forum will need (IMO):
1. Code sections: so all code related questions and discussion can go there. No question is stupid, people can ask what they want. (That way the general discussions here doesn't get over crowded with code questions)
2. Magic code questions: which we have already
3. Grips section: lulz proved that a lot of people are angry at each other beyond the IC and they need a place to vent. Though perhaps general discussion is just as good for this its still a decent idea since people often derail threads due to pent up anger.
4. No censorship whats so ever. Outright trolling can be controlled but sometimes people need to called out for the sacks of shit they are and that can be all of us at some point or another.
Other then that the forum will eventually need more advertisement, as in someone needs to make a secret GDB account on a random IP and private message everyone they can about this forum. Remember a lot of the players now will someday be future staff members so open dialog here will bring about change in the long run. Not to mention, the bigger this forum is, the harder it will be for staff members to ignore the ideas being discussed here. Mind you, out of sheer spite and mean spirited attitude i could see Armageddon mud be someday closed down because of this forum rather than improve. The only reason some of those people stay on staff and stick around so long is because they can be jerks to people and still be free from criticism. However if that is the case so be it, rather see the mud close down rather than let a small group of people like that get their way with something so many people over two decades have put their heart and souls into working on and improving.
I hope that is not the case, but only time will tell.
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Post by sockpuppet on Aug 31, 2013 15:50:12 GMT -5
Hrmm... I disagree. Yesterday Nyr pulled me aside to have a talk in-game and was willing to hear me out. He didn't agree with me, but he didn't get annoyed, or threaten any course of action against me. After a while he just said he's not all that happy about certain things and he respected my opinion and left it at that... so I think if youre willing to speak with him and not go overboard or instantly tell him 'no youre wrong' he's pleasant enough. I dont have all that experience of him, but he seems to be doing an alright job amd doesn't appear at all tyrannical. He's just willing to voice his opinion and doesn't take to kindly to arguements where youre not willing to hear his side.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 18:01:11 GMT -5
Imms actually made an effort to have talks and conversations. I think on one, or maybe two occasions they did it over a media they had no control over? Some kind of teamspeak chat variation, or something similar. I was gone from the game at the time, so I dont truly know what was discussed. Not the first time though, every time they host one of those meetings, nobody really raises issues like lack of conversation, or whatever. I get it pales in importance? Or some other reasons.
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on Aug 31, 2013 21:42:47 GMT -5
The chat logs are posted, check them out for yourself. One or two good things were mentioned, no real criticisms, but we still had a bit of ass kissing. The reason for this though is because there is very little trust between players and staff. No one wants to get on the bad side of staff, which risk their characters or accounts getting the short end of the stick. You can say what you want on that but franky not many want to take the chance, and the more stories you hear, the more you feel its for the best. We won't even get into the utter lies that were told to the playerbase (Arm 2 anyone).
As for Nyr, doesn't it seem like several people seem to have had issues with this guy? You can read the forums, he is clearly willing to voice his opinions and when someone doesn't agree, he tends to get snarky. Its not like he is willing to reach a compromise. You are just being allowed to speak (privately and within limits) but nothing changes, its still staff's way, or get banned. I've never had to deal with this guy so i have no personal problems with him, however i do read his posts. I remember he said that if anyone had a problem with him, they were more then welcomed to file a complain. Which of course he would receive and toss it on the rest of the complains about it. Yeah, he sure made it seem like complaining about him was like time well spent. Again i don't think it is just him that is a problem, he just tends to stand out a bit more.
Open public discussion and criticism without censorship or fear of reprisal in Armageddon has been non-existent. I'm not even talking about between staff and players either, that GDB is too tightly controlled to have meaningful discussion even amongst ourselves. Hopefully this forum solves some of those problems.
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