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Post by poorimpulsecontrol on Jul 11, 2024 12:27:07 GMT -5
This is damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Clan schedules are tedious bullshit and everyone looks forward do doing literally ANYFUCKINGTHING ELSE. Certainly now that the Learn command exists. But a sergeant that has the time and inclination to get people out of the halls and latrines and into the world catches shit? At least out there something might pop off or someone might get Beetle'd or you might fall your silly asses into a ravine or do anything except spar. Again. Or emote chopping tubers. Again.
Give me the scrab hunting, maybe grebbing for ale coins sergeant every time.
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foobar
Clueless newb
Posts: 52 
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Post by foobar on Jul 11, 2024 12:36:03 GMT -5
What's wrong with desert training? Characters need riding practice. Players need to practice group combat and how organization in the group works. I like reading qwerty's posts. He keeps the place from becoming an echo chamber. He often makes valid points, you guys just have a knee-jerk reflex to dismiss anything he says, no matter how reasonable it is. I'll just leave that here. Anyway, I'll assume you play Varas because you rarely and sporadically post on this forum, and a decent amount of your (older) posts are geared towards defending qwerty/the GDB/staff. I don't really see why you would feel the need to defend "desert training" outside of protecting your ego. But I'll try and be helpful here. When it comes to training skills, Desert Training is practically useless. It'll help the newest of newbies to get riding fails, but they'll have to go on 10-20 rides before there's a measured difference in their proficiency. No one will get any misses on wildlife because of how grouped combat works, let alone the 15+ misses they would need for a chance to increase their weapon skills. No one cares about increasing the hunt skill or foraging. Same applies to the 2, 3, 4 Runners begging for a chance to skin a dead bird, hoping for a skinning fail. Practically useless. "Desert Training" usually can take a WHOLE FUCKING HOUR... Riding around the walls, around the dunes, around the scoria, hoping to get attacked by spiders or bandits or something. The majority of the people don't even emote, they just zone out and wait for the whole thing to end. And I don't blame them. There's only so much rp to be done when you're in a big gang of people walking around roflstomping mindless wilderness mobs, or WHOOPS ITS TOO LATE TO GO BACK IN (the gates are 3 rooms away, we can walk there Sarge, there's enough time), I GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO SETUP CAMP. Which is another 30 minutes of standing there and basically being forced to AFK. I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't wanna do that lame ass shit. If you can't bring constant value or excitement through roleplay as a Sarge, then you have to provide value. Value being gear, weapons, coin, opportunities, and meaningful skill-ups. The Byn Schedule fucking sucks with a lot of time-wasting, brain-numbing activities that rarely lead to any sort of fun roleplay, let alone skill gains. The average Runner is rarely ever getting any weaponskill fails in the sparring circle. The grind in Armageddon is still horrendous and newbie characters are extremely ill-suited to helping each other raise combat/weapon skills. Most of them just don't have the agility to dodge consistently, let alone the high defense to be effective trainers. And when you're in a clan that's put into constant danger and random meat grinders... at the beck & call of your own Sarge, the Staff, and any Sponsored Role (or random Amos) with enough power or coin to waste... you want (NEED) to be a really good fighter and to be constantly improving so that your character doesn't die. Otherwise you're another dead Runner who wasted dozens of hours doing "desert training" and AFKing in the barracks. I will say that it's pretty sad that the Bottom-of-the-Barrel Mercenary clan that's literally dedicated to Dying in the name of advancing random plots that people pull out of their ass, is bored out of their mind with no contracts and no real engagement. Very sad! Anyway, I don't have much issue with Varas as a character. But if you're playing a cruel asshole just for the sake of it, you need to make up for it by being an effective leader/trainer. Otherwise don't be surprised when people don't want to put up with your shit or remain in a clan that's not really giving them anything other than free food/water. Oh jesus. I don't play Varas. I'm playing in the Byn and I'm enjoying any breaks from the usual schedule. Desert trips let you practice ride. Skinning and forage skill is how Runners with no income make enough money for soap, drinks, and that eventual gear upgrades. You won't get rich, but it helps scrape that coin together, which can be hard in the Byn if you don't sneak out. You sound like a bitter asshole in pretty much all of your posts. If you don't want to do that dumb-ass-shit, then don't? You'll have more time to write long angry rants here. |
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 11, 2024 12:36:09 GMT -5
Doesn't matter how much or how little someone enjoys the activities that are on the schedule. It's there, so players (and leaders in particular) are expected to adhere to it within reason. It's literally their actual jobs. There's some leeway to occasionally waive a scheduled activity if the situation calls for it, but if someone is routinely ignoring that in favor of doing whatever else they like better, they're objectively failing at their job IC and should be reprimanded by their superiors. Clanlead PCs are only ever middle management in this game, and if a Byn sergeant is just running desert survival all day, the correct response would be to inform their captain or whatever, and then staff should animate that NPC and tell the sergeant to stop fucking around or else find another job. Oh man... This is so lame. You're right in that this is how the role is handled in a historical context. Byn Sergeants and most mundane leadership positions are glorified middle-managers tasked with corralling player characters and preparing them for death in the next RPT or staff/sponsored plotline. But I would never advocate for Arm Staffers to enforce this role strictly upon PCs. I totally support as much freedom as possible for these poor souls. Not even would I wish the fate of a schedule-locked Sergeant upon my worst enemy. If they suck, just leave the clan. This has always been the best response as a player. If your response is to wish up to staff... You have fully transformed into a diseased sewer rat. These lose-lose situations speak more to the game's shitty design than the individual leadership of any 1 PC. |
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foobar
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by foobar on Jul 11, 2024 12:41:53 GMT -5
Doesn't matter how much or how little someone enjoys the activities that are on the schedule. It's there, so players (and leaders in particular) are expected to adhere to it within reason. It's literally their actual jobs. There's some leeway to occasionally waive a scheduled activity if the situation calls for it, but if someone is routinely ignoring that in favor of doing whatever else they like better, they're objectively failing at their job IC and should be reprimanded by their superiors. Clanlead PCs are only ever middle management in this game, and if a Byn sergeant is just running desert survival all day, the correct response would be to inform their captain or whatever, and then staff should animate that NPC and tell the sergeant to stop fucking around or else find another job. I'm pretty sure the Captain would tell you please to go fuck yourself. Literal Byn documentation: > The following schedule applies to all PC runners and troopers, unless overruled by a leader (sergeant or higher). |
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 11, 2024 12:43:10 GMT -5
You sound like a bitter asshole in pretty much all of your posts. No shit, sherlock. You can skip reading them next time, I'm not interested in your room temperature IQ responses. Plus it'll give you more time to shovel shit and scamper around making dingy soap for a handful of coin in a virtual game. Enjoy being a peasant.  I'm a bitter asshole because I have standards. You're just an asshole, quoting shitty game documentation like it's scripture. |
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Post by poorimpulsecontrol on Jul 11, 2024 12:51:14 GMT -5
You sound like a bitter asshole in pretty much all of your posts. No shit, sherlock. You can skip reading them next time, I'm not interested in your room temperature IQ responses. Plus it'll give you more time to shovel shit and scamper around making dingy soap for a handful of coin in a virtual game. Enjoy being a peasant. I'm a bitter asshole because I have standards. You're just an asshole, quoting shitty game documentation like it's scripture. What is more pathetic, playing a lame game or regularly spending your time talking shit about playing a lame game that you supposedly despise? |
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 11, 2024 13:00:08 GMT -5
No shit, sherlock. You can skip reading them next time, I'm not interested in your room temperature IQ responses. Plus it'll give you more time to shovel shit and scamper around making dingy soap for a handful of coin in a virtual game. Enjoy being a peasant. I'm a bitter asshole because I have standards. You're just an asshole, quoting shitty game documentation like it's scripture. What is more pathetic, playing a lame game or regularly spending your time talking shit about playing a lame game that you supposedly despise? Depends on your perspective. I like to complain, critique and analyze systems, so I certainly prefer to "talk shit" and discuss ideas. Playing a lame game under the heel of uncreative staff cheaters while engaging in an endless stream of cognitive dissonance definitely seems more pathetic to me. pa·thet·ic miserably inadequate; of very low standard. And I don't despise Armageddon, we've been over this. Read some of my older threads if you're genuinely curious. Otherwise fuck off. |
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Post by uncoolio on Jul 11, 2024 13:30:57 GMT -5
Literal Byn documentation: > The following schedule applies to all PC runners and troopers, unless overruled by a leader (sergeant or higher). |
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mehtastic
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Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 11, 2024 13:45:47 GMT -5
Doesn't matter how much or how little someone enjoys the activities that are on the schedule. It's there, so players (and leaders in particular) are expected to adhere to it within reason. It's literally their actual jobs. There's some leeway to occasionally waive a scheduled activity if the situation calls for it, but if someone is routinely ignoring that in favor of doing whatever else they like better, they're objectively failing at their job IC and should be reprimanded by their superiors. Clanlead PCs are only ever middle management in this game, and if a Byn sergeant is just running desert survival all day, the correct response would be to inform their captain or whatever, and then staff should animate that NPC and tell the sergeant to stop fucking around or else find another job. I'm pretty sure the Captain would tell you please to go fuck yourself. Literal Byn documentation: > The following schedule applies to all PC runners and troopers, unless overruled by a leader (sergeant or higher).This is just sad. The spirit of the game, like any RPI, is inclusivity in roleplay. If your response to someone not having fun because they can't find their fellow clan members is to post that the Sergeant can do whatever he wants, even if it interferes with actually running the clan, you lost the plot. Best of luck keeping the Byn's numbers up though. |
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foobar
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by foobar on Jul 11, 2024 13:54:15 GMT -5
What is more pathetic, playing a lame game or regularly spending your time talking shit about playing a lame game that you supposedly despise? Depends on your perspective. I like to complain, critique and analyze systems, so I certainly prefer to "talk shit" and discuss ideas. Playing a lame game under the heel of uncreative staff cheaters while engaging in an endless stream of cognitive dissonance definitely seems more pathetic to me. pa·thet·ic miserably inadequate; of very low standard. And I don't despise Armageddon, we've been over this. Read some of my older threads if you're genuinely curious. Otherwise fuck off. It takes too long to scroll through your hundreds and hundreds of posts here to read the 'early ones'. |
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foobar
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by foobar on Jul 11, 2024 13:59:23 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the Captain would tell you please to go fuck yourself. Literal Byn documentation: > The following schedule applies to all PC runners and troopers, unless overruled by a leader (sergeant or higher).This is just sad. The spirit of the game, like any RPI, is inclusivity in roleplay. If your response to someone not having fun because they can't find their fellow clan members is to post that the Sergeant can do whatever he wants, even if it interferes with actually running the clan, you lost the plot. Best of luck keeping the Byn's numbers up though. If you're not there when he starts doing something - what's he supposed to do? It's even communicated ahead of time often enough. If your clanmates remember you and have seen you online, they'll way you. But no, scream at him for doing shit with his clan because you happen to be logged off. Or online and late. Or just so unremarkable that nobody tells you. |
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 11, 2024 14:06:28 GMT -5
This is just sad. The spirit of the game, like any RPI, is inclusivity in roleplay. If your response to someone not having fun because they can't find their fellow clan members is to post that the Sergeant can do whatever he wants, even if it interferes with actually running the clan, you lost the plot. Best of luck keeping the Byn's numbers up though. If you're not there when he starts doing something - what's he supposed to do? It's even communicated ahead of time often enough. If your clanmates remember you and have seen you online, they'll way you. But no, scream at him for doing shit with his clan because you happen to be logged off. Or online and late. Or just so unremarkable that nobody tells you. What he's supposed to do is mostly stick to the schedule so that the people in his clan -- many of whom are newbies -- can figure out where to go and what to do in order to find interaction. You're a qwerty fan so I can't possibly expect this basic concept of common courtesy towards fellow players to get through your skull, but you're clearly a fan of the game, so I'll pose the question a different way. Do you think the Byn staff would agree with me, or with you? |
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 11, 2024 14:19:46 GMT -5
This is damned if you do, damned if you don't. Clan schedules are tedious bullshit and everyone looks forward do doing literally ANYFUCKINGTHING ELSE. Certainly now that the Learn command exists. But a sergeant that has the time and inclination to get people out of the halls and latrines and into the world catches shit? At least out there something might pop off or someone might get Beetle'd or you might fall your silly asses into a ravine or do anything except spar. Again. Or emote chopping tubers. Again. Give me the scrab hunting, maybe grebbing for ale coins sergeant every time. This is the way, but it's a delicate balance. Good leader players understand this intuitively and bad ones don't. The game used to have a lot of people that understood this balance, but lost them over time due to player attrition or players simply not being up for the intensive work and play schedules that leadership demands.
That being said, I think it's interesting that the negative experiences mostly pertain to leaders shutting out players from RP, like this one:
"I play in a clan that's supposed to be involved in the big copper thing. [redacted some IC events that could easily identify the sender] I was then able to take a very important item to my boss. He gave me a nod and told me to get back to it. The scene was incredibly short and underwhelming considering how plot-relevant that item was to finding copper. Now he just has a container in a clan area I am supposed to drop these items in. I feel like I could be doing more as an indie. It is incredibly hard to find my boss because he's always either busy in a meeting, logged out, or erping with one of the other employees. I was really excited to play in this clan after reading the newsletters and recapturing the feeling of what this clan used to feel like back in the day. Now I feel like I wasted my time."
My opinion on these testimonials is that it's understandable that leaders would make mistakes. The fault ultimately lies with staff not being good at providing guidance to leaders, not the leaders themselves, barring extremely egregious missteps.
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foobar
Clueless newb
Posts: 52
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Post by foobar on Jul 11, 2024 14:31:25 GMT -5
1. I think he's either incredibly unlucky exaggerating, they don't go out that much.
2. He mentions there are other runners. You know, people he could interact with and go through your holy schedule with. Of course, they're going to miss each other if everyone leaves the minute the sparring hall is empty.
3. This is nothing new. Sergeants take out the clan whenever they have time, and not necessarily when there's 'desert training' on the schedule. When you want to run an event (yes, even something as small as a ride), you run it. You don't cancel it for the benefit of people who aren't online. You're there to entertain the players who are there, not someone who may or may not show up later on.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 11, 2024 15:01:42 GMT -5
If you're not there when he starts doing something - what's he supposed to do? It's even communicated ahead of time often enough. If your clanmates remember you and have seen you online, they'll way you. But no, scream at him for doing shit with his clan because you happen to be logged off. Or online and late. Or just so unremarkable that nobody tells you.  ![]() It takes too long to scroll through your hundreds and hundreds of posts here to read the 'early ones'. Understandable. I'm much too prolific and verbose for my own good. The last few pages of this thread seems relevant.What he's supposed to do is mostly stick to the schedule so that the people in his clan -- many of whom are newbies -- can figure out where to go and what to do in order to find interaction. A reasonable take. |
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