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Post by alicatsam on Mar 18, 2023 10:09:22 GMT -5
The List of feedback demands has been compiled for discussion. How do we feel about the list? What would you add/remove?
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Post by alicatsam on Mar 18, 2023 10:13:47 GMT -5
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Post by Azerbanjani on Mar 18, 2023 10:17:00 GMT -5
Did they really not include 'Don't play characters while on staff?' when a ton of people were harping on them for that??
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Post by alicatsam on Mar 18, 2023 10:20:17 GMT -5
Closest thing is under Staff Avatars:
Staff Avatars no leaders staff cannot engage in ERP more scrutiny on pkilling - review and question the staffer for each one no dual-logging (staff and avatar)
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Post by Azerbanjani on Mar 18, 2023 10:22:07 GMT -5
Yeah that's a bandaid of the real issue. A lot of people outright said 'no staff pcs' and they did this baby shit of 'no leaders' (WHEN THEY WEREN'T REALLY SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING LEADERS ANYWAY??)
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,328
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 18, 2023 10:39:04 GMT -5
Stopped reading carefully at "To name a couple of ideas (but not all) that did not make the list:" and just glanced over the rest. They took the most modest ideas that were suggested, including ideas that staff themselves have said are already in place, and ignored almost everything else.
That line alone shows how serious staff are about putting everything on the table, and the answer is not at all. Anyone that reads that and still thinks staff are acting in the players' best interests are going to be very shocked and disappointed when the game continues to decline (setting aside obvious judgments of their gullibility).
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Mar 18, 2023 10:49:23 GMT -5
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bebop
Clueless newb
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Post by bebop on Mar 18, 2023 10:54:44 GMT -5
I think the list is fine, though I am noting the exemption of staff not playing characters and I have to wonder why that's such a sticking point. If you're there to be a GM you're not there to be a player. You shouldn't be able to do both and you should be there for the love of being a GM.
I'd also remark that it's interesting that many people have to comment and observe here and give further feedback on this medium because SO MANY players are banned.
Oleptua has not only maintained the bans (after staff announced they were lifting them), the staff haven't left it up to the moderation team. She has also been turning down/closing requests for people just because they've been a dissenting voice towards staff even if they haven't left in any official capacity. More passive aggressive rude behavior. More of the same.
People like Reiloth and my husband were banned with no communication or explanation.
Supposedly, the shadow/derp boards don't stand for anything they believe in yet they don't allow communication and have a North Korea level of censorship. Where else are all of the people you ban supposed to profer their opinion? You're creating your own problem. Who are they to decide if their players can post on other platforms? It's mad jealous/abusive lover vibes. I just think it's interesting that they keep asking for feedback from an echo chamber and lying to their players about how they're solving things with a moderation team. In actuality their new producer is being petty and vengeful at every turn and the screen shots will eventually come out to show her being that to multiple would-be players across the board. Great way to retain and grow a player base for sure.
I'd much rather a Halaster than an Oleptua I think... probably?
But at this point my capacity to care is seriously waning so who the next shitty producer is will never impact me again. I am no longer in the habit of setting myself up for abuse and gaslighting. Treating players that were harassed by your staff like this just makes you an extension of Shalooonsh's shitty behavior not the antidote to it.
It's hard for me to see any of this as anything but farcical when the with one hand they're typing the apology and the other repeatedly hitting the ban button on good players while preserving Malifaxis status as a player. This isn't rocket surgery and it doesn't take a month to figure out - predator bad, player that was harassed and brought this to the light good. Someone said this isn't a Fortune 500 company and these people aren't necessarily experienced. It's exactly because this little retro niche game on the Internet a Fortune 500 company that there shouldn't be this absurd level of red tape.
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Post by alicatsam on Mar 18, 2023 11:05:47 GMT -5
My main thing is having investigations of staff members being involved in PC death (viewing, participating, etc) multiple times across an account. And removing the 'rule' of not appealing the same staff complaint when it's been arbitrarily and one-sidedly closed at risk of being banned. Pathetic they can't let people say 'I'm not happy with your resolution, can we find another answer.'
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
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Post by bebop on Mar 18, 2023 11:17:19 GMT -5
I just want to also point out that a game should be FUN.
By asking for "feedback" and then posting an "outline" as to the feedback it creates this kind of social suggestion that Armageddon management is "cooperative." It would be wonderful if that was the case. However, at the end of the day, staff isn't upholding the integrity of the moderation team that they're parading out as "done" (a step towards collaboration). Ultimately, staff can hear the feedback it's up to them (as they pointed out) as to whether or not they're going to take those steps or not. Some of the steps they're taking are suggestions from banned players.
I just feel bad for the players of this game. It's supposed to be a fun experience and instead they're getting drug into a bunch of emotional labor or things like troll threads for their feedback, all because staff can't just enforce that they shouldn't cheat or not have sexual predators in their midsts. The whole thing is maddening and I can't take a single thing seriously considering they're so sorry for abuse but are just going to keep banning and demeaning the players they've historically abused.
Give me a break.
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Post by lechuck on Mar 18, 2023 11:51:52 GMT -5
Did they really not include 'Don't play characters while on staff?' when a ton of people were harping on them for that?? I'm not in favor of that, and nobody here could possibly accuse me of being a lickspittle for staff. They need to have the opportunity to play the game so that they can see it from a player's perspective. They just shouldn't have privileges that surpass what a player might do, nor should they occupy roles that a player might have wanted to take. If they can abide by those notions, I think it's important that the people who run this game do experience it from the player's perspective. Else we get a bunch of Nessalins who haven't played since the 90s and are just out of touch with the whole thing.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Mar 18, 2023 11:55:10 GMT -5
The issue isn't whether or not they should be able to play
The issue is a bunch of people said 'Stop playing characters' They should have on the 'we should discuss this' list: "Stop playing characters"
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Post by lechuck on Mar 18, 2023 11:58:04 GMT -5
Eh. I dunno. I don't care. I don't think that it should be out of bounds for the people running a game to also play it. It's insane to expect that they are barred from experiencing the gameplay experience. There's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who thinks that a game can be run by people who are literally not allowed to play it. I mean, come on. You can see that if you're not an insane person.
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Mar 18, 2023 12:04:07 GMT -5
Eh. I dunno. I don't care. I don't think that it should be out of bounds for the people running a game to also play it. It's insane to expect that they are barred from experiencing the gameplay experience. There's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who thinks that a game can be run by people who are literally not allowed to play it. I mean, come on. You can see that if you're not an insane person. They have shown they are not capable of playing the game in good faith. I've said this before I've had hardly any issues with Nessalin in recent years, yeah he is apathetic and abrasive but idgaf about that. He isn't running around as a maxed sorc pkilling me.
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Post by lechuck on Mar 18, 2023 12:07:25 GMT -5
Nah. Nope. Certain individuals on staff have proven to be morons who should be (and, for the most part, have been) dismissed from staff. But you cannot run a game like this if the ones who are in charge of the whole fucking thing are not allowed to play the game at all. I feel like I'm attempting to explain to you that water is wet. It takes some measure of insanity to demand that people who are barred from playing a game at all must also run that game. Are you out of your mind? Are you fucking insane? I'm starting to think that the answer to that is: yes.
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