nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by nile on Apr 19, 2020 1:50:24 GMT -5
lol, now pinkerdlu is in my Discord back pedaling like an idiot when I called him on the stupidity of me coordinating all the guest posters:
"I just figured since all of those posts happened within 20 minutes of each other and expressed the same sentiments, that there was likely a connection."
Genius IQ, mate, clearly. lol
|
|
pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 515
|
Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 19, 2020 1:59:17 GMT -5
Meursault12/30/2019 ahh...this pink? RCS12/30/2019 yessir Meursault12/30/2019 shweet RCS12/30/2019 :ok_hand_tone1: Meursault02/04/2020 bro we just got assraped by staff im worried they want the militia ot be the man gang so they forced one of ours out through 'an angry mob' twice now then animated a randiom NPC who nearly killed us all MeursaultToday at 1:41 AM curious why you chose to have a tantrum about me in public rather than bring it up? poisoning the well and believing in OOC collusion against u is like....u need a doctor type shit also hilarious since u literally posted my Discord and former PC name on a public forum to make a point about OOC shit lol next time just pipe up RCSToday at 1:44 AM I don't believe in OOC collusion against me, man. MeursaultToday at 1:44 AM then why post it? RCSToday at 1:44 AM I'm not trying to poison any well. MeursaultToday at 1:44 AM lol do u know what that means? ur initial response is a case example u had nothing to say so u tried to discredit me and therefore my opinion RCSToday at 1:45 AM I never accused anyone of going after me. I accused the playerbase of being tucked away in private discord groups, especially the Locals who started doing so very early on. MeursaultToday at 1:45 AM for simply agreeing with a guest poster sad shit bro rofl read ur own posts u might be surprised how they actually read RCSToday at 1:46 AM Maybe you're catching the wrong drift. MeursaultToday at 1:46 AM im reading ur posts ill quote the bits for u one sec RCSToday at 1:46 AM Alright. MeursaultToday at 1:46 AM I disliked how you and your OOC friends (fellow Apoc players who you're in private discord channels with - aka the Real Housewives of Shetno/Apocalypse) came into this thread where there were actual discussions taking place, and reduced it to flaming and banter. boom accuse me of taking a group of ppl into the thread to trash it complete fucking nonsense u made up because a bunch of ppl disagree'd with u RCSToday at 1:47 AM So you don't know any of those guest posters and they aren't people that you talk with? MeursaultToday at 1:47 AM and i guess u attacked me since they were guest posters lame shit they r guest posters ffs how would i know their handles? u think i sit there asking ppl this shit? ffs dude get a grip im busy playing the game RCSToday at 1:47 AM I just figured since all of those posts happened within 20 minutes of each other and expressed the same sentiments, that there was likely a connection. Alright buddy, enjoy the game. I'm not stopping you. MeursaultToday at 1:48 AM so now ur admitting ur full of shit, after ur posted my OOC info nice work RCSToday at 1:48 AM I didn't post anything that I don't agree with still, haha. MeursaultToday at 1:48 AM nod. delusions confirmed i hope u get some help man RCSToday at 1:48 AM If you say so. Here's the full chat log for anyone interested. What a guy
|
|
nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by nile on Apr 19, 2020 1:59:49 GMT -5
Jcarter should really ditch this forum imo. I mean, look at how derailed this thread is because of one person's delusion. They've also shared OOC info regarding my IG PCs. Can anyone delete that at least?
|
|
nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by nile on Apr 19, 2020 2:02:18 GMT -5
Meursault12/30/2019 ahh...this pink? RCS12/30/2019 yessir Meursault12/30/2019 shweet RCS12/30/2019 :ok_hand_tone1: Meursault02/04/2020 bro we just got assraped by staff im worried they want the militia ot be the man gang so they forced one of ours out through 'an angry mob' twice now then animated a randiom NPC who nearly killed us all MeursaultToday at 1:41 AM curious why you chose to have a tantrum about me in public rather than bring it up? poisoning the well and believing in OOC collusion against u is like....u need a doctor type shit also hilarious since u literally posted my Discord and former PC name on a public forum to make a point about OOC shit lol next time just pipe up RCSToday at 1:44 AM I don't believe in OOC collusion against me, man. MeursaultToday at 1:44 AM then why post it? RCSToday at 1:44 AM I'm not trying to poison any well. MeursaultToday at 1:44 AM lol do u know what that means? ur initial response is a case example u had nothing to say so u tried to discredit me and therefore my opinion RCSToday at 1:45 AM I never accused anyone of going after me. I accused the playerbase of being tucked away in private discord groups, especially the Locals who started doing so very early on. MeursaultToday at 1:45 AM for simply agreeing with a guest poster sad shit bro rofl read ur own posts u might be surprised how they actually read RCSToday at 1:46 AM Maybe you're catching the wrong drift. MeursaultToday at 1:46 AM im reading ur posts ill quote the bits for u one sec RCSToday at 1:46 AM Alright. MeursaultToday at 1:46 AM I disliked how you and your OOC friends (fellow Apoc players who you're in private discord channels with - aka the Real Housewives of Shetno/Apocalypse) came into this thread where there were actual discussions taking place, and reduced it to flaming and banter. boom accuse me of taking a group of ppl into the thread to trash it complete fucking nonsense u made up because a bunch of ppl disagree'd with u RCSToday at 1:47 AM So you don't know any of those guest posters and they aren't people that you talk with? MeursaultToday at 1:47 AM and i guess u attacked me since they were guest posters lame shit they r guest posters ffs how would i know their handles? u think i sit there asking ppl this shit? ffs dude get a grip im busy playing the game RCSToday at 1:47 AM I just figured since all of those posts happened within 20 minutes of each other and expressed the same sentiments, that there was likely a connection. Alright buddy, enjoy the game. I'm not stopping you. MeursaultToday at 1:48 AM so now ur admitting ur full of shit, after ur posted my OOC info nice work RCSToday at 1:48 AM I didn't post anything that I don't agree with still, haha. MeursaultToday at 1:48 AM nod. delusions confirmed i hope u get some help man RCSToday at 1:48 AM If you say so. Here's the full chat log for anyone interested. What a guy I'm glad you posted that ... Backs up where you clearly demonstrate you are lying about me colluding with people to somehow ruin this thread, which funnily enough you managed to do with your initial attempt at poisoning the well. And quite revealing you assume I would actually care what some randoms on a forum I rarely read would think of me. Rofl. What a guy.
|
|
nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by nile on Apr 19, 2020 2:05:36 GMT -5
Also, Jcarter, the above chat log is further reason this place should be closed. You're giving an outlet to people who want to spread OOC information about other players. Can almost guarantee this erdlu dude will continue to be a "pest" given his behaviour in this thread. Clearly holds a grudge against a certain segment of players, mainly me since I'm apparently the figurehead here, lol, and is willing to push that online.
|
|
sawbot
staff puppet account
Posts: 31
|
Post by sawbot on Apr 19, 2020 4:00:48 GMT -5
Don't you agree that some of the plots are rough, with little substance? Don't you think that many npcs are poorly balanced? That the karma system needs worked? That instadeath rooms (like the silt sea) and certain pits/falling rooms need changed? That some skills (sap) and spells need balanced and reworked? That the community is very small right now? That there's a lack of communication right now between Ikthe, the staff and everyone else? Do you recognize that there are problems? How do you feel about the game? These weren't addressed to me but I did want to answer them. 1) The plots aren't perfect but they are consistent and the story tellers work hard to make fun for players. I've been in more staff run plots in apoc in an average week than I have in years on arma and I didn't usually have to instigate them or work especially hard to get involved. I am surprised they've not burnt out or run out of ideas. 2) Keep in mind that the progression rate for apoc is much (MUCH) faster than Armageddon. I was able to branch parry on an assassin within 5 days played. NPC giths being tough was helpful because I had a consistent source of skillgains that I was not able to get with critters. I do think that the super tough NPCs should be harder to stumble onto by accident. In the first week there was drov beetles a few rooms from the gate which were then removed, so feedback about this does get listened to. 3) Karma and instadeath rooms are being worked on. The staff were very communicative when it came to karma and set up a channel to hear player's thoughts on how it should work. Currently the plan seems to be to let anyone get 8 karma if they've played for 3 months and there's enough available slots for the role. 4) I am ambivalent about sap. I like that mundanes can be dangerous, and that there's a genuine reason to play one over a mage. No mage can murder you in the middle of a city with crimcode and get away with it. I sort of feel like if it was nerfed, people'd go rogue and stab you with peraine knives instead. Assassins trade alot of utility and combat skill for their backstab/sap which isn't actually necessary to PK stealthily once big boy poisons come into play. 5) Yes. And starting in Shetno is painful. I wish PCs would start with a higher forage skill but I'm hoping numbers will go up once the new play area opens. There's 130+ people in the discord but I think many don't want to play in the same sphere over and over. 6) Staff have been very communicative on what they are working on. With the new play area, new items, etc. The only "issue" is the speed at which it's been done. Which I personally would not call an issue at all, it's a hobbyist project and I'm sure they have lives to live.
|
|
delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
|
Post by delerak on Apr 19, 2020 9:12:09 GMT -5
A taste of things to come if any Apoc staff are reading this thread.
|
|
pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 515
|
Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 19, 2020 11:28:29 GMT -5
1) The plots aren't perfect but they are consistent and the story tellers work hard to make fun for players. I've been in more staff run plots in apoc in an average week than I have in years on arma and I didn't usually have to instigate them or work especially hard to get involved. I am surprised they've not burnt out or run out of ideas. 2) Keep in mind that the progression rate for apoc is much (MUCH) faster than Armageddon. I was able to branch parry on an assassin within 5 days played. NPC giths being tough was helpful because I had a consistent source of skillgains that I was not able to get with critters. I do think that the super tough NPCs should be harder to stumble onto by accident. In the first week there was drov beetles a few rooms from the gate which were then removed, so feedback about this does get listened to. 3) Karma and instadeath rooms are being worked on. The staff were very communicative when it came to karma and set up a channel to hear player's thoughts on how it should work. Currently the plan seems to be to let anyone get 8 karma if they've played for 3 months and there's enough available slots for the role. 4) I am ambivalent about sap. I like that mundanes can be dangerous, and that there's a genuine reason to play one over a mage. No mage can murder you in the middle of a city with crimcode and get away with it. I sort of feel like if it was nerfed, people'd go rogue and stab you with peraine knives instead. Assassins trade alot of utility and combat skill for their backstab/sap which isn't actually necessary to PK stealthily once big boy poisons come into play. 5) Yes. And starting in Shetno is painful. I wish PCs would start with a higher forage skill but I'm hoping numbers will go up once the new play area opens. There's 130+ people in the discord but I think many don't want to play in the same sphere over and over. 6) Staff have been very communicative on what they are working on. With the new play area, new items, etc. The only "issue" is the speed at which it's been done. Which I personally would not call an issue at all, it's a hobbyist project and I'm sure they have lives to live. 1. Yes, they are pretty consistent! It's great that you think they're working hard. If you feel like staff are already working themselves to the point of burn out (but they just keep going, god bless 'em) to keep their playerbase of 5-8 players entertained, I would personally be concerned. Do you think they will keep that level of activity and involvement up for a larger playerbase? When it doubles, triples, quadruples (if they ever reach that point)? I don't like the quality of the plots and I don't really see that changing too much as the game world expands. They lack substance. If these plots had any semblance of a lasting impact or being meaningful for the gameworld, people would want to participate RIGHT NOW - it doesn't matter the state of the game - but that's not happening. This is my personal opinion and I'm not trying to be an asshole to the staff, but I'm not going to defend them no matter how hard they work if the product just isn't good. I could also get into the subject of how Shetno is NOT what was envisioned and discussed earlier during the development of the game. It was supposed to be an important trade hub with a focus on the power struggle between internal factions - rogue barons, bandit kings, merchant princes. Instead we got a shitty smash-up of Red Storm and the Labyrinth that feels barren and they called it good. It's pretty ridiculous and I'm sure it scared more potential players away (that may or may not return later on) than it did good when they launched the game in this state. 2. I wouldn't say that progression rates are MUCH, MUCH faster but they did make some cool changes in that regard. I wasn't complaining about progression, mind you. I was pointing out the poor balancing of npcs (default and animated) and really if you go back to my older posts: this stigma that has been carried over from Armageddon that 'spawning in big scary monster and stomping a player' is a good story or acceptable for staff members to do on a regular basis. I know a few competent PCs that died to NPC gith tracking them down. I know at least one that died to animated gith being way too powerful for the encounter. Upholding the same ol' senseless Armageddon policies, they refused to rez him. (But apparently opened up the water mage karma role for him to play as a way of saying sorry.) If you want animations and hack n' slash gameplay, Apocalypse might be the MUD for you. If you want consistency and access to good roleplay, Apocalypse is not the MUD for you at this time. Maybe that'll change when/if Keredet opens up. 3. Cool, I'll take your word for it! 4. I find myself agreeing with delerak (SURPRISE) - it was a mistake using DIKU for multiple reasons. The reason being integral to this point is that DIKU was made for a hack n' slash MUD, not a roleplay MUD. For years people have complained about the same cheap mechanics that encourage surprise attacks/ambush and OHK PvP in Armageddon instead of drawn-out conflict that builds to a peak and maximizes the fun and excitement for everyone. Apocalypse has effectively failed to address any of that besides nerfing half-giants into a slightly less OP version, and putting dwarves behind a karma wall. Which are actually great steps, but it doesn't solve the fundamental issues. Strength is still the big boy stat, a class dedicated to stealth kills (rogues/assassins are one of the most despised classes in MMORPGs for a reason and they should be even more poorly regarded in a permadeath MUD with a dedication to roleplaying instead of PK), a number of cheesy and overpowered mage spells, the same OP poisons (peraine, terradin) that they plan on introducing in the future AFAIK. People are going to complain about these, and quit over them, just like they have on this board for Armageddon for years. If they start to work/are working on these issues, that's amazing, and you should keep us updated if you want to promote the game. A big improvement that they could make is implementing a stat point-buy system, like the one my buddy ppurg has been offering to make them since months ago. 5. Yep. I cover some of this in my first point of discussion re: Shetno. I actually enjoyed how rough things were the first month in Shetno but I imagine that also turned off a lot of players. I don't think the current state of Shetno will be good for the future development of the game, either. 6. There was an update yesterday, yes. And the one before that re: new content was at the end of March. All in all, a monthly update isn't bad but with the ease of discord and the size of their team, it does feel rather quiet for weeks at a time. Not sure if they post stuff in the general chat because I don't pay attention to it! And yes, they're 'unpaid volunteers', I understand that. I'm not sure the setup bodes well for the health of the game but hopefully they'll grow (not in size) as a team and knock expectations out of the park. Thanks for the discussion.
|
|
|
Post by psyxypher on Apr 19, 2020 12:13:24 GMT -5
Nile, please stop. You're not doing yourself any favors. And by extension your potentially kneecapping the people who enjoy Apoc by painting a bad picture of it's playerbase.
Pinkerdlu, you and I agree on a lot of the same points. I think I like you.
Right now, the biggest issue with Apoc is, as Pinkerdlu said is overpowered NPCs. A single Gith should not be leagues harder to solo than a wild inix or carru.
|
|
vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
|
Post by vex on Apr 19, 2020 16:38:34 GMT -5
Right now, the biggest issue with Apoc is, as Pinkerdlu said is overpowered NPCs. A single Gith should not be leagues harder to solo than a wild inix or carru.
I'm actually, pretty curious.
If not a gith, than what "non-animated" kind of npc, SHOULD be expected to be a stiff challenge to a player? I don't know, I think, gith would be a lot MORE interesting and menacing in Arm, if STANDARD FIGHT DWARF couldn't go out and massacre dozens of them in a day, and leave the heads all around Luirs. It isn't some accomplishment there, nor is killing spiders, or whatever. The biggest issue with Arm is that, unless you're on the lower quarter of the combat classes, there isn't a lot of accessible threats out there you ever need to worry about.
Nobody hires byn for escorts, unless they're doing it FOR the roleplay. There is NOTHING you need to fear. Even indie merchants w/ combat subs can safely travel from town to town, because there isn't a lot to worry about.
Gith are kind of a joke in arm, and nobody cares about them. Even the "OMG! Gith are attacking Luirs! Again! This time with additional gimmick!" are met with halfhearted responses, and nobody bothers talking about it for more than a day or so, because they're not... really a menace, or a threat, or the kind of thing players care about. They're so mediocre and "always there" for skill grinding, that they're completely shrug worthy.
Do you really want to just cruise the sands, mass slaughtering everything you come across, safe in the knowledge that the only things that are a threat to you, need to be actively sought out, in obscure places, that are inconvenient to get to?
At what point, should a player be feel challenged? When they're "comfortable and ready" for challenge? Should it only be, from other players? Never?
I'd think killing a wild animal should be a lot easier, than taking down a cunning, intelligent, sentient humanoid on its home turf, especially when its probably hunting you already. Why would/should they be comparable to a carru, for example?
|
|
pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 515
|
Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 19, 2020 17:56:59 GMT -5
Yeah, good point. First to address the quoted bit from psy, I don't think that overpowered NPCs are the biggest issue in Apoc, but they certainly are an issue. I certainly believe in challenge in a game. However, let me address your post: If not a gith, than what "non-animated" kind of npc, SHOULD be expected to be a stiff challenge to a player? I don't know, I think, gith would be a lot MORE interesting and menacing in Arm, if STANDARD FIGHT DWARF couldn't go out and massacre dozens of them in a day, and leave the heads all around Luirs. It isn't some accomplishment there, nor is killing spiders, or whatever. The biggest issue with Arm is that, unless you're on the lower quarter of the combat classes, there isn't a lot of accessible threats out there you ever need to worry about. Well, let's look at this from a game design perspective. The reality of the situation is, gith will always be used as a plot gimmick in Armageddon; it doesn't matter how challenging or not they are (that will only increase their lethality and PC kill count), they'll still be used for the same purposes. Promoting danger for the sake of danger in a game that has never truly taken into account RISK VS REWARD won't solve anything. Now, what non-animated NPCs should post a stiff challenge to players? Probably not sentient beings that are known to hunt in packs. Since Armageddon/Apocalypse styles itself more as a hack n' slash than an actual roleplaying game, I believe the challenging NPCs should be Boss Fights, large beasts that bear valuable resources, mobs that reward you for fighting them and winning. Not ugly elf goblins that never go away and drop so much shitty useless gear, and give staff excuses for easy antagonist animations. Why should extreme challenges for PCs be common and indiscriminately found throughout the sands? No, there need to be zones of difficulty. You shouldn't pander to the players of Kuraci dwarves who have played the game for over a decade and are able to max out their weapon skills and max out their base offense/defense from non-stop sparring. Random and dangerous encounters can be handled through animation. Or - something that I find MUCH preferable - you can code them into the game and add them to certain zones/rooms like Estella is doing in Ashen Sea, the RPI that she has made great progress on. This removes the staff element, which would greatly lessen the possibility for foul play and claims of unfairness from the players, while adding a huge amount of rng and life to the wilderness. Do you really need sentient NPCs standing around somewhere in the world that you can go murder? And in my personal experience, there are quite a few unbalanced NPCs in Apocalypse. Some of them were nerfed and adjusted as is reasonable in a brand new game, but some still exist. There was a long-lived PC who was killed by a gith NPC who tracked him - his mount ran out of stam and he couldn't flee. He was fighting mounted w/ advanced riding, advanced chopping, high dual-wield and moderately high base offense and couldn't land a single blow on the npc before it killed him. My PC who I've had since day 1 had trouble fighting single gith while alone - often getting critted and reeled - and he has HIGHER combat skills. Master slashing, etc. So yeah, it was a bit ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by psyxypher on Apr 20, 2020 23:46:20 GMT -5
I kinda want to hear what you think the biggest problems with Arm/Apoc are, Pink.
If it's Backstab/Sap, I could make a thread on it. Seems like a potentially easy-ish problem to solve.
|
|
pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 515
|
Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 21, 2020 0:23:52 GMT -5
Here's the top four problems with Arm in order. 1. Dishonest and uninspired staff who have demonstrated time and time again that they're the biggest cheaters in the game. Greedy and jealous nerds who are power tripping in their own virtual sandbox, refuse to dismiss individuals (on staff) who have repeatedly displayed often creepy and dangerous behavior, and who have lost touch with any semblenace of good game design or authentic storytelling. They're the inheritors of a storied MUD that have refused to do anything worthwhile, not that those came before them were much better, and have let it stagnate and decay while they cling to their positions. 2. Dishonest and uninspired playerbase who have been conditioned to accept the current conditions in Armageddon, and have adapted to them. The players are largely uninspired, boring, will jump on any sign of excitement/plot and quickly PK adversaries to solve issues and cling onto any amount of virtual power that they have. Discord/OOC cliques are still rampant and have crossovers into the staff team. Like I've been saying, it's less about collabortive storytelling or murder/corruption/betrayal and more about a desert sex simulator with bone swords, and who can kill who first in the gamiest way possible. 3. Old codebase that promotes surprise attacks/ambushes. Totally unbalanced stats and races. Half-giants, dwarves, high strength archery and throw, poisons like peraine and terradin. A skillgain system that is garbage, two decades old, promotes the slaughtering of NPCs or pants-on-head retarded levels of twinkery to acquire real competence. Mage subguilds that have made it so that most of the 'dangerous' PCs are actually witches and very few can compete. The list goes on. 4. Constant closure/erasure/gating of content, which has NOT been coupled with an effective level of consolidation. Instead players are just being forced into Allanak where they get to enjoy staff sponsored templars who very rarely contribute anything worthwhile to the gameworld. The issues in Apocalypse have been discussed by me already and don't differ /all that much/ from the problems in Armageddon. If you think that I believe backstab/sap is the biggest problem in Apoc or Arm, I don't think you've been putting enough comprehension into my posts.
|
|
|
Post by psyxypher on Apr 21, 2020 1:06:03 GMT -5
Point number 3 is kind of what I was trying to get at there. The balance issues the game has.
However it's past 2:00 AM where I am and I want to tackle all these balance issues when I'm rested...so eventually.
|
|
|
Post by psyxypher on Apr 21, 2020 13:07:24 GMT -5
My suggested fix to the skillgain system is to make it work like Two-Handing. When making an attack with two hands, you roll against your skill to see if you get a "fast attack". If you roll above your skill level, it's considered a fail. You then have a 1 in 25 chance of skilling up. This is probably modified by /something/.
The idea is simple: Do this with every skill, or at the very least all the combat/weapon skills, and modify the chance to get a skillgain by the character's Learning Substat.
This is meant to augment the current system, not replace. This allows people who have insane offensive abilities to get skill ups without resorting to insanity like weighing yourself down with rocks.
|
|