najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
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Post by najdorf on Jan 6, 2020 5:00:36 GMT -5
And i bet this is even after staffs fake account creation attempts to revive the game. I bet 1 out of 3 4 characters are staff played. This could even be their strategy think of it, hire ever player they like to staff and keep playing with them. At the end 25 staff members will keep on playing in a game reduced to gaj red s arboretum with 8 active staff online, shaloons creating 10 yo npcs (i think vnpcs are enough to him) and masturbating at them. Great Armageddon staff Dream accomplished
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Post by lechuck on Jan 6, 2020 5:36:23 GMT -5
I don't know if I believe that staff play the game a lot. If they did, how could they be satisfied with its current state? It's a question I've been meaning to ask in general: how does staff not want more out of the game? Aside from the dinosaurs and power-addicts that make up some portion of the wizlist, there's also creative and ambitious people on staff. For all his faults, Shalooonsh is an example of that, and surely at least a few others.
There's a couple of theories/observations that come up now and then:
1) Red tape and bureaucracy keeps storytellers from doing anything.
2) Staff ideology shifted toward player-run plots instead of grand story.
I'm prepared to believe that both of those things have happened, but can it really be true that they continue to keep the game at a standstill year after year? That nothing has changed? Maybe Qwerty can be useful and constructive for a change and tell us more about how things actually operate behind the scenes. Are storytellers' hands tied to such an extent that all anyone has been able to do for years is send more gith after the Byn and Kurac? Has staff officially decided to put an end to the story of Zalanthas in favor of waiting for players to do things themselves? The fact that there actually is a running gith "plot" tells me it isn't some kind of rule they have to abide by, at least. As tired and glacial as the gith storyline is, it certainly can't be called a player endeavor.
Is it staff's opinion that this is enough to sustain the game? That it's a worthy substitute for the memorable, world-changing events of the past, which people still talk about fondly? Even one as pessimistic as I struggle to believe that staff genuinely thinks it's up to par. They can't all be so jaded and uninspired that noone thinks the game deserves more.
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Jan 6, 2020 6:46:34 GMT -5
There's a few staff members who play the game, and many who rarely play PCs or don't play at all. I don't think that their involvement as mortal PCs makes any significant difference to activity or the appearance of activity.
I think staff PCs have a mixed effect on the game. There has been plenty of coordination in the past between staff PCs and the player friends of staff, and I have no reason to believe it isn't still happening now considering the staff responsible for such actions are still on staff. That reputation for going against the spirit of the game may very well discourage players from playing the game, or it could create activity that other players can get involved in unwittingly without realizing that it's artificial/OOC coordinated. We won't ever have enough concrete information on that to prove things either way.
The idea of storytellers' hands being tied is really the most charitable guess at why there's so little happening in the game. It concentrates criticism of the staff body's productivity primarily on the 20% of staff who are on the higher echelons on the staff body and have generally been on the team for over a decade. They're in the prime position to see what their grip on the game has accomplished thus far.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 6, 2020 7:02:42 GMT -5
That reputation for going against the spirit of the game may very well discourage players from playing the game, or it could create activity that other players can get involved in unwittingly without realizing that it's artificial/OOC coordinated. if he was staff would that be like the crimson winds leader
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jan 6, 2020 7:29:26 GMT -5
That reputation for going against the spirit of the game may very well discourage players from playing the game, or it could create activity that other players can get involved in unwittingly without realizing that it's artificial/OOC coordinated. if he was staff would that be like the crimson winds leader There's a few decent examples I can think of off the top of my head: - Melanogaster's Crimson Wind leader that he was allowed to keep upon joining staff and led to the first "success" of the player created clan system - Nathvaan's Nilazi that worked with Hasan to enable a ton of stuff Hasan was trying to do - Nyr's Tuluki psionicist who had no mention of psionics in her background/bio to evade detection by the Lirathans, went on to work with nobles who had no idea she was a mindbender These examples are spread out across enough time to show that it's probably not so regular that it's happening all the time, but regularly enough to show that the Producers turn a blind eye to corruption within the ranks on some level.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jan 6, 2020 14:46:31 GMT -5
I thought Nyr's "psionicist" only had a few psionic abilities from their contact with silt giants from an IC plot, unsure though, I may have misread something. Also I've read that several people had fun with the Hasan plot, unsure though, maybe I just haven't heard from people who had a bad experience with the whole Hasan thing, aside from saying the way Hasan went out was weak as fuck contrived bullshit. I don't like the Crimson Wind for personal reasons that I try to keep from coming out ICly, much like I have a mild distaste for the Dust Runners but I've still interacted with them without that coming out.
I first bumped into the Dust Runners before they were an official clan, the original leader was pretty freaking awesome and got people active and participating, it changed over time, and I guess it was inevitable, but the reason I didn't like the end result was I liked what it had been previously, and I regretted not taking part in it. Or maybe it was an official clan and it just wasn't public knowlege it was official yet. One of my PCs had a good friend who was a Dust Runner leader later, we ended up murdering a dude together because he thought he'd just, attack the elf, when there's two elves present, and caught a facefull of heramide, dropped like a sack of rotten potatoes, and the Dust Runner was just like, "Yeah, I'm too lazy, you do it." so I waltzed over and stuck a knife in his paralyzed ass. Good times.
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Post by anaiahlation on Jan 6, 2020 14:53:26 GMT -5
Nah, they were guild psionicist, Rissa AKA Terissa aka Cups. They caught the thoughts of a vnpc fleeing their apartment after a failed break in that I echoed at them and Nyr hated and had beef with me ever since.
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Post by lechuck on Jan 6, 2020 15:27:56 GMT -5
The Crimson Wind would have been fine if that level of support was afforded to the playerbase as a whole. I think they were a net positive for the game. The issue arises when generations of players try to do something similar and are stonewalled, only to witness one group receive support. They were hardly the first raiding band that tried to get a hideout or coded clanning. It's just that when ten others tried and were told no, the one that gets a pass will come off as pampered favorites who were dealt a winning hand for free.
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Post by shakes on Jan 6, 2020 16:41:59 GMT -5
The Crimson Wind would have been fine if that level of support was afforded to the playerbase as a whole. I think they were a net positive for the game. The issue arises when generations of players try to do something similar and are stonewalled, only to witness one group receive support. They were hardly the first raiding band that tried to get a hideout or coded clanning. It's just that when ten others tried and were told no, the one that gets a pass will come off as pampered favorites who were dealt a winning hand for free. Right now staff won't even uphold the existing in-game lore and canon. I don't expect to see them fostering anything new if they can't even provide realistic vNPC consequences for HUGE violations of canon.
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Post by gringoose on Jan 6, 2020 16:55:38 GMT -5
CW had a warehouse? Anybody can get one of those all you have to do is apply for a player clan and do something like stay alive for 1 in game year or something. The issue is only staying alive long enough. Amon'ma was alive for 2-3 real life years which would be 2-3 in game decades more than enough time to get a warehouse
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 17:21:19 GMT -5
CW had a warehouse? Anybody can get one of those all you have to do is apply for a player clan and do something like stay alive for 1 in game year or something. The issue is only staying alive long enough. Amon'ma was alive for 2-3 real life years which would be 2-3 in game decades more than enough time to get a warehouse Painted elves got a warehouse. That group that that Inks created that was a progenitor of painted elves also got a warehouse. That rinthi PC on the Westside also got a warehouse. There are a lot of people out there that have warehouses. Amon'ma player was staff before amon'ma and then quit during amon'ma. I don't think he came back to staff, has he?
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mehtastic
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Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Jan 6, 2020 17:40:01 GMT -5
CW had a warehouse? Anybody can get one of those all you have to do is apply for a player clan and do something like stay alive for 1 in game year or something. The issue is only staying alive long enough. Amon'ma was alive for 2-3 real life years which would be 2-3 in game decades more than enough time to get a warehouse Amon'ma player was staff before amon'ma This statement is incorrect. Melanogaster joined the staff team while playing Amon'ma, and the staff rules were adjusted at the time to allow new members of staff to not have to store their current mortal character before joining staff.
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Post by shakes on Jan 6, 2020 19:00:35 GMT -5
I'm not going to knock Amon'Ma or his achieving a staff position. I enjoyed the character, I enjoyed ALL of the times I interacted with him across multiple characters, on whichever side of the hammer I ended up on.
While he may have received some extra attention ... he provided an IMMENSE amount of activity for a wide swath of the playerbase. That warrants the extra attention, in my book.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jan 6, 2020 19:52:40 GMT -5
Letting Amon'ma/his player succeed isn't a bad thing at all out of context, but in the larger context of various raider groups working overtime to achieve what he eventually did, only failing because of a lack of staff aid for crucial yet reasonable requests, it's a bit of a sore point that one of the few characters to succeed at it was a staff avatar granted a special exception from storing their mortal character before joining staff just so that it would look like the player-created clan system actually worked. It's that kind of cynical decision-making that's at the heart of critique on staff behavior and favoritism: that an opportunity granted to a staff avatar that ended up being "fun" was denied to potentially dozens of players that otherwise had equal "rights" to the same assistance.
And I think in the context of players leaving the game at a rate of about 5% a year on average, we should ask why those 10-15 players a year are walking away from the game and staff should investigate how long they tried to make something fun out of their experience for both themselves and for others, only to be denied.
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Post by shakes on Jan 6, 2020 21:09:56 GMT -5
The game is bullshit lately anyway. I couldn't be more disgruntled with it.
Not just a staff thing. The player base is shit. I got only a handful of people I'm willing to play with and they're all quitting one by one.
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