mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 14:50:56 GMT -5
Yeah, not everyone who plays Armageddon is a pedophile. It's probably become more noticeable considering how consolidated the playerbase is, to the point that you're increasingly likely to run into a pedophile as you play.
As for staff intervention, literally the only thing they have to do is increase the minimum age for characters. They would not have to police anything related to pedophilia because there would be nothing to police. That said, I agree that the problem is insidious and that makes it difficult to police without any change.
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Post by shakes on Sept 20, 2019 14:58:18 GMT -5
In my time playing I've had three questionable situations.
One was the aforementioned 'being shaken down for sex' by the Guild boss.
Another was an Arm private who just would not stop Waying me with graphic descriptions of anal sex. Specifically what HE wanted to do to me. I was another male character and within maybe 2 months of playing. Very new. I didn't even know there was a way to OOC stop him. He stopped after about a week. I think he annoyed someone more capable than I was and they offed him.
And the third was when I was in the Arabet and two schmucks just would NOT stop having homosexual mudsex (graphic!) at the main firepit. C'mon, guys. Take it to a tent. I'm trying to roast some tregil here.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 15:11:10 GMT -5
In my time playing I've had three questionable situations. One was the aforementioned 'being shaken down for sex' by the Guild boss. Another was an Arm private who just would not stop Waying me with graphic descriptions of anal sex. Specifically what HE wanted to do to me. I was another male character and within maybe 2 months of playing. Very new. I didn't even know there was a way to OOC stop him. He stopped after about a week. I think he annoyed someone more capable than I was and they offed him. And the third was when I was in the Arabet and two schmucks just would NOT stop having homosexual mudsex (graphic!) at the main firepit. C'mon, guys. Take it to a tent. I'm trying to roast some tregil here. So yeah, all of those situations are problems in different ways. They go beyond "questionable" and into "rulebreaking" territory. #1 is bad because the rape helpfile commands people to seek consent for sexual roleplay at the earliest possible juncture. In situations where a power imbalance between two characters exists and said imbalance is used as leverage for an adult situation, consent must be sought at the earliest possible juncture. Refusal by the 'weaker' party requires the instigator to adjust their intent or desire to avoid a sexual situation. The ideal time to have asked for consent would have been before making the oral sex proposal. What occurred, where the person asked for coins instead after you refused, effectively toes the line of the wording of the rules, but violates the spirit of the rule. #2 is bad because the consent helpfile commands people to ask for consent for sexual roleplay. #3 is bad because consent must be acquired by everyone in the room - you don't get to just force people out of public rooms because they don't consent, you have to stop. The compromise there is that you do probably have to leave a room if you're hidden and don't want to give away the fact that you were hiding there by OOCing "no I don't consent".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 15:13:24 GMT -5
Yeaah. How does that even happen? Did they ask for consent?
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Post by shakes on Sept 20, 2019 15:15:05 GMT -5
Someone says OOC, "No, I don't give consent."
A tressie tress scans the room intently.
An AOD sergeant scans the room intently.
A Templar scans the room intently.
A stupid half-giant scans the room intently.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 15:18:21 GMT -5
shakes: "You can imagine where it goes from here." @qwerty: "He fixes the cable?"
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Sept 20, 2019 15:22:26 GMT -5
back to the topic of the thread
it's kinda interesting that they have rules around abusing one's position of power for sexual favors but nothing about nailing 13-year-olds
innit?
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Post by shakes on Sept 20, 2019 15:27:18 GMT -5
Yeaah. How does that even happen? Did they ask for consent? The guy Waying me never asked for consent and I didn't know enough about the game to know it was an issue. I thought it was just a creep. You find them sometimes in the world. The guys having homosexual mudsex in the public space ... if I was present first and they both showed up they would engage in only petting and kissing. But if I walked into the room and they were already going at it they wouldn't stop and wait long enough for me to clear the area. But there was also an expectation that I WOULD leave the firepit and go hide in a tent if they both showed up and wanted to do their thing. I felt really awkward about that one. I couldn't think of any way possible to file a complaint that didn't make me out to be a complete homophobe to staff. Isn't that sort of the problem with consent sometimes? The onus should be on the other people to gain consent for everyone present, but when they aren't polite enough to do that ... it's difficult and socially awkward to demand it. And sometimes it's awkward to GIVE consent.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 15:36:56 GMT -5
back to the topic of the thread it's kinda interesting that they have rules around abusing one's position of power for sexual favors but nothing about nailing 13-year-olds innit? A lot of the game's rules about sexual RP usually form after something weird happens, and someone else says "there ought to be a rule about that". However, this has been going on a long time and nothing has effectively changed. So either staff don't see it as enough of a problem to care about (the Lazy explanation), staff think of it as a numbers game and wonder how many players they'll drive away by creating a rule (the Popularity explanation), or staff benefit directly from the rules not existing (the Complicity explanation).
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 15:57:11 GMT -5
In case you don't have a Hazmat suit for reading the comments of the Reddit thread, I picked some choice quotes. A rules lawyer said: But in the context the world definition is that they aren't children. So, at least on the surface, applying arbitrary RL rules about RL humans of a specific age to virtual actions amongst adults presumably roleplaying adult characters is on shaky ground, Someone who's probably on Interpol's most wanted list said: Hebephilia (sic) not pedo, and really not even that if the person is over 18. What's your gripe with people's imaginations or would you prefer they try a different sort of outlet? A veteran of the Pedo War who fought for the Axis claims victimhood: I am appalled that anyone would claim, after a mere 2 months of playing or 20 years of playing, that ArmageddonMUD has an "underground scene of people who use Armageddon as an outlet for sexual roleplay with child characters." That is not only inaccurate but gross and reprehensible, even if just for the logistical fact that on Zalanthas 13 year olds are considered adult and child characters aren't playable. ... I wish I didn't have the sour taste in my mouth that this is all an attempt at getting people to stop playing this game.
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Post by shakes on Sept 20, 2019 16:14:04 GMT -5
ShaLeah, that sour taste in your mouth is probably from something else.
I could world-build a setting where forced child-rape is canon but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be abhorrent when viewed (or played in) by a modern westerner.
You can't excuse some things just by saying, "it's the setting."
Bleh. Reddit. I'm not going to talk about Arm on Reddit.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 20, 2019 16:22:53 GMT -5
Her response is symptomatic of a larger issue surrounding the veterans' elitist attitude, and belief that critics of the game are trolls who are simply trying to drag a successful game down. I don't specifically blame her for her post; she simply fell into a larger culture where the veterans of the game can't see what's wrong with it and don't demand any changes to fix it. I lay the blame for her post on that culture. It's fairly natural human behavior for leaders of the pack in any society or subculture to do that. That said, she's certainly responsible for evaluating her own beliefs and trying to understand why she is wrong, instead of just raging at the reviewer.
The reviewer did say that they're going to put in a complaint to GoDaddy's abuse center, so either nothing will ultimately happen or Armageddon will have a different URL in a few weeks.
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Post by shakes on Sept 20, 2019 16:26:02 GMT -5
Her response is symptomatic of a larger issue surrounding the veterans' elitist attitude, and belief that critics of the game are trolls who are simply trying to drag a successful game down. I don't specifically blame her for her post; she simply fell into a larger culture where the veterans of the game can't see what's wrong with it and don't demand any changes to fix it. I lay the blame for her post on that culture. It's fairly natural human behavior for leaders of the pack in any society or subculture to do that. That said, she's certainly responsible for evaluating her own beliefs and trying to understand why she is wrong, instead of just raging at the reviewer. The reviewer did say that they're going to put in a complaint to GoDaddy's abuse center, so either nothing will ultimately happen or Armageddon will have a different URL in a few weeks. That's the problem with both the vets on the GDB and the embittered here on the SB. The GDB vets are all, "It's perfect, stop tryin' ta destroy mah game!!!" The SB embittered is, "It's all shit. Burn it down. Go play SOI." The truth is really somewhere in between, as I've always maintained. It's a fun game but there are a lot of problems.
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punished ppurg
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 20, 2019 17:13:31 GMT -5
Epic. Upvoted.
This quote stood out to me.
". . . The difference is that the setting is designed around a desperate world, so while those behaviors you listed are disturbing, they at least exist within the context of the game world. It's an entirely different matter when people pervert the context of the game to fulfill their own pedophilic fantasies."
It's a fact that this happens. I've seen it happen. The only way to fix it is to crack down it, or to raise the ages to 18. I usually opt for the coded solution, since it's the easiest and the best long-term solution. It would be trivial to move all ages up to 18.
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Sept 20, 2019 19:57:54 GMT -5
this shit is hilarious. will probably send more players to the game actually. any publicity is good publicity they say.
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