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Post by shakes on Aug 19, 2019 12:55:39 GMT -5
My bad. I may need to go over those old guides again. I suck at twinking.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Aug 19, 2019 14:55:27 GMT -5
Even slice-of-life stories have conflict tbh, it's just usually internal or circumstantial with low stakes. 'Once' is generally regarded as one of the better slice-of-life movies, and it has oodles of internal and circumstantial conflict. Two people who have prior professional, familial, and romantic entanglements fall in love, but know that they can't act on that love because their lives are going in opposite directions. There's something they want, they can't get it, and then they both kind of accept that this is the way that the world is and say goodbye. It's a great story and a great example of how slice-of-life stuff can be compelling.
(Edit: Clerks is another example of slice-of-life stuff that might be more popularly known here. It's filled with conflict, and one of the main circumstantial conflicts is stated as a running gag throughout the movie. "I'm not even supposed to be here today!")
But you can't build a clan around that. I enjoy slice-of-life RP and prefer roleplayed antagonism to coded antagonism, but I'm not necessarily risk averse, try to roleplay losses to their fullest (including character deaths), and definitely don't understand why you would make a whole clan risk averse as a foundational theme without something that forces them into trouble. It's just not a clan concept. Slice-of-life RP is a personal thing, not a clan thing, because we experience life as individuals and not as organizations. And to add, in my experience the players that tend to be the most averse to coded penalties aren't socializer-type players, or even killer-type players, but achievement-type players. They need to be the best and recognized as such, and anything that could make them be seen as not the best (like another clan swooping in and ending their amazing plot idea by PKing everyone) sets them off.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Aug 26, 2019 15:25:38 GMT -5
Hello, OP.
I simply wanted to say that I've always enjoyed your pcs. I do hope you will consider returning, as the game is lesser for your absence.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 16:14:27 GMT -5
I actually know nothing about that clan, so it's hard to really offer anything constructive.
I do know how hard it is to create a tribe that would fit the world without being in dissonance to the game world. Fact of the matter is that elves are quasi enemies of the humans. They can have a useful and constructive effect on the game world, but at the end of the day, a human will always suffer if an elf perseveres. This makes elven clans extremely powerful and volatile. Add to it the fact that celven tribes are extra loyal to each other and you have a ready made band of single minded, united, beings that bring doom. The perfect example of such a clan was Red Fang. The moment they got their camp and became able to overcome their short lifespans, they turned from loose underdogs to the RULERS OF THE WASTES!!!! A small band of delves had the pc power to dictate terms to giant tribess, merchant houses, entire city states really. It got to a point that Nyr and Tiernan had to basically deus ex machina RF's extinction.
That shouldnt happen. Therefore elven tribes need to have flaws embedded into them. Territory limits, traditional limits, weird loyalties, unconstructive restrictions, etc, etc. Because without them, elves would soon require a major VNPC effort to bring them down to restore the zalanthan theme.
Whether being cowardly and quick to give up their own is a good "flaw" for the game, or not. I dont know. I understand the idea. It allowed celves to work with human authority 'and' crime at the same time, while keeping the ability to elf.
This situation in this log is a common and sad occurrence. But at the end of the day, every single elven tribe is gimped somehow and for a good reason. Playing alongside these clearly artificial weaknesses and limitations is part of playing that tribe.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,451
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Post by Jeshin on Aug 26, 2019 16:30:30 GMT -5
How do you keep elven tribes in line?
1 - Treat them like fucking elves! Templar's should be threatening them, oppressing them, making deals and changing the terms vader style on them. 2 - Turn their unity against them, take the weakest one and hold them hostage should the others step out of line. You do not need to physically have this person as hostage just a death threat everyone knows will come true. 3 - Elves are Elves. Turn dwarves, humans, HGs against them. In a tribe it's them against the whole world, tell turn the world back on them.
Any claim that celves or even delves are to powerful is just silly. For the most part they are limited by staff approval so they can just be like nah no openings it already had 3-4 active players and if we give them to much more they'll start rivaling full on Byn. The reason the Red Fangs were so powerful was because they were some maxed out rangers and knew the game. It's good to have the proverbial boogeyman out there making the sands scary and mugging you every so often.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,323
Member is Online
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 26, 2019 17:01:24 GMT -5
I do hope you will consider returning, as the game is lesser for your absence. If only the staff thought about such sentiment before driving players away. As someone who quit the game, and speaks with former players who quit or current players who are on the verge of quitting, it's a sentiment that goes around a lot. It sometimes even keeps players who hate the game playing because they found players who like them. That's a mistake. People shouldn't play games they don't enjoy, and anything can be fun with friends. Fallout 76, arguably one of the shittiest multiplayer games to have come into existence recently, still has a relatively small but dedicated base of players because there are people who log in to play with people they know and enjoy playing with. It doesn't make the game any better. The thing is, the great roleplayers who leave Armageddon will be great roleplayers outside of Armageddon too. They'll do well in Harshlands, or Arx, or a tabletop game on Roll20 or in real life or wherever else. They become great writers, game developers, and leaders in communities related to those pursuits. The game may be lesser for the absence of players like shakes and others, but those players will be better off when they're no longer under Armageddon staff's oppressive boots.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 19:44:26 GMT -5
I actually know nothing about that clan, so it's hard to really offer anything constructive. I do know how hard it is to create a tribe that would fit the world without being in dissonance to the game world. Fact of the matter is that elves are quasi enemies of the humans. They can have a useful and constructive effect on the game world, but at the end of the day, a human will always suffer if an elf perseveres. This makes elven clans extremely powerful and volatile. Add to it the fact that celven tribes are extra loyal to each other and you have a ready made band of single minded, united, beings that bring doom. The perfect example of such a clan was Red Fang. The moment they got their camp and became able to overcome their short lifespans, they turned from loose underdogs to the RULERS OF THE WASTES!!!! A small band of delves had the pc power to dictate terms to giant tribess, merchant houses, entire city states really. It got to a point that Nyr and Tiernan had to basically deus ex machina RF's extinction. That shouldnt happen. Therefore elven tribes need to have flaws embedded into them. Territory limits, traditional limits, weird loyalties, unconstructive restrictions, etc, etc. Because without them, elves would soon require a major VNPC effort to bring them down to restore the zalanthan theme. Whether being cowardly and quick to give up their own is a good "flaw" for the game, or not. I dont know. I understand the idea. It allowed celves to work with human authority 'and' crime at the same time, while keeping the ability to elf. This situation in this log is a common and sad occurrence. But at the end of the day, every single elven tribe is gimped somehow and for a good reason. Playing alongside these clearly artificial weaknesses and limitations is part of playing that tribe.
Without being antagonistic,have you tried to play some of the clan roles who are supposed to live with these tight regulations and lack of ability to "win"? I'm talking about city elf Byn mercenaries with rules on what contracts they cant take. I'm talking about Byn muls. For all of my bile about them, I'd probably have to include raider pcs. I'm talking about the effects Lirathans used to have on intrigue in the north.
The social, mechanical and narrative spoils in Arm goto the winners. Why would we want to play a series of forgettable 5 and 10 day played nobodies?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 21:32:47 GMT -5
Well. Nobody's forcing you. Some players find it fun. Some players like the challenge, or the novelty, or the difference. Some players choose those roles and then expect the gameplay to be no different then if they were playing a commoner human. Please dont do that. Those are niche roles with niche peculiarities.
It depends on what you consider the "spoil" in Arm, I guess. There are players who play primarily underdogs with a specific borderline OOC schism of never being able to attain any kind of leadership, or glory. Very often those players already did all that. For them to play a human that right away achieves leadership, authority, respect, and power is boring and overdone. They 'choose' the difficult roles, because they're looking for a different story.
Some people are casual players. They dont want to handle all the political/intrigue/social interaction, because it requires a lot more attention to going ons within the game. So they play roles with limited exposure, like for example Muls/HGs. They still have fun, they have interesting inner stories, even if sometimes the outer story is monotone. They get to participate in stuff as a support role, without getting the stress and time requirements of close up intense participation. They get to enjoy the game with a lot less time spent on it. It's their choice.
Once again. Different people enjoy different things. Nobody's forcing those roles on you.
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Post by explayer on Sept 3, 2019 1:08:54 GMT -5
Shakes, you don’t murder the hawks. You flee when they are at poor health and return in an hour to fight them again. Have we taught you anything? And if you want to PK, just toss a perraine-coated dagger at some sucker fighting NPCs in the next room. He'll lock up and the NPCs will finish him off. You won't appear in any kill log. Steal his boats and let him bleed out on the sands if the NPCs stop attacking when he drops.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Sept 15, 2019 14:39:05 GMT -5
Are the Two Moons doing anything these days? As far as I can tell, they've dwindled quite a bit, though I'm not active enough to really know for sure.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 7, 2019 16:13:12 GMT -5
I read the log, I didn't read all the responses but I know even though on occassion you've been an arch nemesis for a couple of my characters, that you're a solid roleplayer, and you bring a lot of good to the game. That's what I heard them saying even as they asked you to dial it back some, and pointed out quite rightly that IC actions have IC consequences. They tossed you a rope to climb up with. If you choose to hang yourself with it, no one can stop you, but they'll be sad. I get your frustration, and while it's justified, you have to be able to seperate yourself from your emotions and view the issue objectively.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 7, 2019 16:21:05 GMT -5
I still remember that scene where your dwarf shattered my PC's arm, that was pretty IC, and classic, and after I had to find a way to fix it, which led to some shady dealings. Getting set back some sometimes opens doors you wouldn't come near under other circumstances. Please play again, Arm is better with your presence.
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Post by shakes on Dec 7, 2019 18:11:35 GMT -5
I've been playing again.
All this situation taught me was not to interact with staff any more than I have to. But thanks for the words.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 7, 2019 20:56:59 GMT -5
PISS IN THE SOUP!!!!@!!!!
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
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Post by delerak on Dec 7, 2019 21:24:46 GMT -5
I've been playing again. All this situation taught me was not to interact with staff any more than I have to. But thanks for the words. No ban? Good to hear that I'm not the only one. The amount of hate staff get on these forums is unnecessary and unfortunate. I have been pretty disappointed with the players since my return. Staff on the other hand have been nothing but cordial and open to reasonable dialogue.
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