raven
Clueless newb
Posts: 174
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Post by raven on Oct 21, 2013 12:36:53 GMT -5
Eh.. keyword *can*.. if its a brand new ranger sure. A ranger with max archery is going to get passed that roll most likely. Not exactly. I know of personally several warriors (30+) that participated in the HRPT. And Shields literally saved them during the long range moments, allowing a counter attack with both long ranged followed by a close combat 'charge' (ie not the skill but rather actual act of rushing into close combat) One warrior personally protected several of his superiors, blocked long range attackd and fought a South Templar. This lasted for almost 10-15 min RL. Needless to say he died at the Templar's hands. And he was about 30 days more or less.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
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Post by delerak on Oct 21, 2013 12:51:28 GMT -5
Can you confirm that the rangers shooting these arrows had master archery?
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raven
Clueless newb
Posts: 174
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Post by raven on Oct 22, 2013 13:56:01 GMT -5
Can you confirm that the rangers shooting these arrows had master archery? Considering that they caugh several unprotected by shield and they were instantly killed... One soldier told me one person got hit on the arm and died. Another got hit in the neck and crumpled down mortally wounded, died a few seconds later. They also where using taints it seems. The archers on both sides where quite proficient. I believe the size of the shield also affects in the protection. A smaller shield will protect less area. While a tower shield will probably protect much more better.
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Post by slipshod on Oct 22, 2013 16:27:35 GMT -5
the quality of the shield has no effect in my experiences.
i have blocked five arrows in a row with bucklers and been hit many times in a row with tower shields on the same high proficiency warrior.
block, parry, def and agi seem to be the sole deciding factors on if projected arrows are evaded with intent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 0:38:18 GMT -5
Years ago, I remember this situation. My chara, and two others are wounded to shits. Like everyone are in terrible condition. And Kija is standing there with a shield, blocking crap shot by a whole bunch of animated Mantis some short distance from us. He managed to block probably 7/8 of all the projectiles, until we've recovered enough stamina to run the fuck away from there. If it wasnt for Kija and his shield use, we would've all died five times over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 21:15:50 GMT -5
If you were to pit each style against the others, the most effective way to fight is with a shield. Dual-wield comes second, and two handed is garbage.
The thing about shield use is that it caps very low for all classes and, like parry, is very easy to raise because it's a 'one failure = increase' type of skill, unlike dual-wield and two handed. As such, it's laughably easy to max shield use even on a warrior. It's therefore best to train mainly with dual-wield and just take a week to max shield use at some point. Don't make the mistake that so many warriors do and only ever fight with a shield, you can be working on both styles and have the best of both worlds at no loss or compromise. Do all your sparring with two weapons and then bring a shield when you go do something actually dangerous. The ability to whip out a second weapon when not tanking is very valuable, especially in small groups.
Dual-wield speaks for itself. It's almost as hard to raise as the weapon skills but doesn't interfere with their growth, and it's by far the best offensive style and can let you finish fights so fast that you don't even need defense. The trick to raising dual-wield is to start each fight with a bash and stay seated the whole time if you fall. This will incur a penalty to hit, and since your secondary weapon already has another penalty, it'll make it possible for your off-and to miss even basic things that long ago stopped dodging your main hand. Also note that your off-hand attack doesn't generate weapon skill failures so you don't get any weapon skill increases from this, nor does your weapon skill affect your chance of hitting with your off-hand attack. Use any weapon you want.
Two handed is just crap. Not only is it less powerful offensively than dual-wield and mutually exclusive with shield use, it's also much harder to raise the skill properly as it doesn't get the hit penalty that your off-hand attack gets. Your two handed skill thus increases at the same rate as your weapon skill, making it nearly impossible to get much higher than journeyman or early advanced as you pretty much stop missing here except when fighting one of the select few mobs that have uniquely high agility. Etwo even grants a bonus to hit, further hindering your skill gains as you reach the plateau point that much earlier. You're also fucked if you get disarmed, and using disarm yourself is extremely dangerous because fumbling your weapon against a risky opponent leaves you unarmed and easily leads to your death whereas the other styles leave you with a shield or a secondary weapon in the other hand. Add to this the fact that there's very few actual two-handed weapons in the game and it's hard to justify using this style on a hardcore fighting PC.
Etwo is actually quite strong in the beginning where flat bonuses make a significant difference. For the long term, however, it's a flawed style and one that simply isn't worth basing a character around. Once you're approaching maxed skills and have very high offense/defense, the bonuses from etwo are dwarfed whereas the inherent problems of using one weapon become apparent, as does the fact that the style hinders your overall skill growth.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jan 16, 2014 9:48:24 GMT -5
etwo takes a while to train up, but the bonus to offense/defense and damage, also the never missing thing, can make it very powerful under the right circumstances. for disarming and such, they get bonuses, try not wearing gloves. the guy trying to parry a two handed weapon with the spare in his offhand because he failed a disarm is going to be in deep shit. shield is funny because it can actually cause you to take damage from a kick that would have bounced off armor. also, when the nasty monster with thick skin and incredible agility shows up, guess which style you will want to use? probably the style that gets bonus damage so you don't bounce. two weapons misses too often and takes too many hits from nasties for me to consider as viable as two handed in a life or death situation, but great for training. edit though i have seen it used very well, its just an opinion
you can parry arrows, just saying. dont know if is as good as a shield, but you can do it.
oh, and if you can carry it without being too weighed down, in the field shield would probably be a good choice, though i think two handed would be a good option to have hanging around for the right situation. theres really little reason not to practice all of them.
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Post by spitwad on Jan 16, 2014 12:18:16 GMT -5
The thing about shield use is that it caps very low for all classes and, like parry, is very easy to raise because it's a 'one failure = increase' type of skill, unlike dual-wield and two handed. may skills that work other than 'one failure = increase' be elaborated on? is it only a chance to increase or are a certain number of failures necessary to increase?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 12:44:58 GMT -5
I think it's just a smaller and smaller chance as the skill gets higher, coupled with the fact that failures become rarer. As far as I'm aware, the skills that work like this are:
offense defense weapon skills dual-wield two handed
...and then I'm certain there's something with barrier and perhaps other psionic skills, but I'm not sure what. It's definitely not the typical 1fail=up thing for barrier.
For combat skills, something happens around 50-60ish (depends a bit on stats and choice of weapons) where a fighter just plateaus. Increasing the skills any further takes special approaches such as fighting mobs like halflings and stilt lizards, normal humanoid combatants pretty much cannot dodge your attacks anymore. You can get dodges once in a rare while against max-agi warriors with high defense, but it's so seldom that it can't be relied on to raise your skills in any kind of timely manner. It's a little bit easier with dual-wield because it gets a penalty to hit, but it still plateaus before the point where rangers and assassins branch parry.
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Post by chaosisaladder on Feb 6, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -5
I have a few questions regarding the advanced weapons, as they have been expanded upon here. Is a pike basically an uber-weapon against mounted foes but weak elsewhere? How do knives compare to razors? Razors and polearms seem to be the favorites, but are there any honorary mentions? And, most importantly, with the advantage of razors offensively against enemies not trained in them, would the best option be a single razor and a shield, or two razors? The former doesn't sound too thematic, but if you won't be missing with an advanced weapon, you might as well up your defense, right?
Edit: Also, can polearms be wielded one-handed?
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Feb 7, 2014 4:12:13 GMT -5
I have a few questions regarding the advanced weapons, as they have been expanded upon here. Is a pike basically an uber-weapon against mounted foes but weak elsewhere? How do knives compare to razors? Razors and polearms seem to be the favorites, but are there any honorary mentions? And, most importantly, with the advantage of razors offensively against enemies not trained in them, would the best option be a single razor and a shield, or two razors? The former doesn't sound too thematic, but if you won't be missing with an advanced weapon, you might as well up your defense, right? Edit: Also, can polearms be wielded one-handed? On 1razor vs. 2razor, I would say it depends, but it kinda doesn't. If you've been training long enough to land an advanced weapon skill, you likely won't need to worry about getting hit very often. I'd say dual-wield 'em (seriously. turn into a human blender. why give them any hope whatsoever of escaping?), unless you're crazy outnumbered or are expecting arrows. And as far as polearms/pikes/tridents-- I've never seen any that weren't two-handed only. Personally, if I'm shooting for razors/knives, I'll dual wield swords primarily. If I'm shooting for pikes/polearms/tridents, I'll two-hand whatever I'm using. there's a chance i could be wrong about all of this
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 0:07:27 GMT -5
Both pikes I've seen are two handed.
All five polearms I've seen are two handed. I've heard rumors that Jihaens get/used to get a one handed sparring lirapet.
There are at least two razors in game.
A sleek, tortoiseshell-handled razor That appears to be made from a small chunk of tortoiseshell and a long, wickedly sharp fang.
I've never seen a knife class weapon in game. Bonus cool points for someone who can name one.
There are a mix of one and two handed tridents.
Both of these are one handed tridents
Rugged, spider-fang spear is value 105. That appears to be made from a long wooden pole and a long, wickedly sharp fang and a long, wickedly sharp fang and a long, wickedly sharp fang.
A three-fanged baobab halfspear is value 185. That appears to be made from a long, wickedly sharp fang and a long, wickedly sharp fang and a long, wickedly sharp fang and a short wooden pole and a length of leather cord.
At least one of the Salarr ordered tridents is one handed. I don't know which one.
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Post by demonspongecake on Feb 8, 2014 5:59:09 GMT -5
Sparring knife!
Maybe knife weapons is some kind of programmer joke
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Feb 8, 2014 18:05:32 GMT -5
there was some sort of longknife that spawned in the pack of an npc on caravan road in allanak that was clearly described as a knife/dagger/longknife/whatever but my burglar couldn't tell what it was
so either it was decorative (doubt it), some freakass chopping/bludgeoning knife, or a knifing knife
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Post by yaznokumf on Mar 24, 2014 22:08:46 GMT -5
What is the best fighting style to play as a mage? I assume shield for a Krathi, or elkrosian so they have the defense while they blast with their spells. How about for a vivaduan or Rukian whose magick is more defensive?
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