kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on Sept 22, 2018 4:05:08 GMT -5
It does seem that being in a crowded area (that is if the room is coded to be "crowded" and when you hide you can "slip into the crowd", i.e. there are VNPCS meant to be there) boosts chances to steal as per the code:
/* bonus if there are crowds */ if (IS_SET(ch->in_room->room_flags, RFL_POPULATED)) skill += 30;
However, the site's page on steal says:
"Everyone in the room with you has a chance to try and notice you doing this."
Now I'm confused as to how this works. I think that if you fail (the chance of which is independent of the number of people in the room) then yes, everyone does notice this. But I'm wondering if your chance of succeeding is itself tied to the number of people in the room.
I am aware that the victim WATCHING you affects your chances. But does other PCs/NPCs just "being there" lower chances? If they're there do they just have to "be there" to lower your chances or do they have to be scanning and watching?
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Post by lechuck on Sept 22, 2018 13:57:02 GMT -5
Being in a room with the crowd flag gives a bonus to steal. That's all the rooms where you see "you slip into the crowd" or whatever when you hide. It hasn't got anything to do with the number of characters in the room, it's just places like taverns, city streets, etc. You can get the populated bonus even if no actual characters are in the room, and you can be in a room with a bunch of characters without getting the bonus if the room happens not to have the POPULATED flag. It's just a binary flag that is set when building a room.
The "everyone in the room has a chance to notice" thing is just the passive chance for the watch skill to pick up hidden emotes, stealthy actions like peek/steal/palm, and also looking at or assessing someone. It doesn't cause your steal to fail, but somebody might see you do it. When checking to see if you passively spot an action with watch, having the skill gives a bonus chance to spot it. Since few characters have steal and most people don't get their watch skill very high, the odds of spotting a skilled thief are miniscule unless you're actively watching that character.
When playing Saraan the Usurer, I would constantly notice other people do shit because I had high wisdom, high watch and maxed steal, peek, sleight, sneak, hide and whatever else. Watch is a really useful skill, and if you're playing a class without scan, it's very important to raise your watch so you have a potential counter to someone trying to cheese you with hide. If your class doesn't get advanced watch natively, you should even consider picking a subclass that gives that. For sneaky characters in particular, it helps a ton to be able to reliably notice when others start watching you.
To raise watch, I'm pretty sure you have to actively fail to spot something a person does while watching them. I don't think it'll increase from passively not noticing a stealthy action in the room. This means you have to watch PCs/NPCs that do things, which can be tricky if you're a loner. I haven't been able to confirm if the hidden emote from looking at people counts as an action that will increase watch, but I believe the assess message does. One thing I liked to do was find a rat and shadow it, watch it, then go AFK for a little while and pretty soon you'll have failed to detect it sneaking or hiding.
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Post by shakes on Sept 22, 2018 14:58:35 GMT -5
Correct. The number of PC's is irrelevant, except in that each of them have a check to notice you if you have a fail. If you succeed, there's no check.
If you have very good agility, and are successfully hidden, and at least journeyman steal, you're not going to fail on light items. It's almost greater than a 100% chance.
Stealing is such a fun minigame. Some of my richest characters were just scroungy pickpockets who were supposed to be just barely surviving. Yet people walk around with diamonds in pouches hanging off belts. Mmm. Diamonds.
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on Sept 23, 2018 6:47:04 GMT -5
Being in a room with the crowd flag gives a bonus to steal. That's all the rooms where you see "you slip into the crowd" or whatever when you hide. It hasn't got anything to do with the number of characters in the room, it's just places like taverns, city streets, etc. You can get the populated bonus even if no actual characters are in the room, and you can be in a room with a bunch of characters without getting the bonus if the room happens not to have the POPULATED flag. It's just a binary flag that is set when building a room. The "everyone in the room has a chance to notice" thing is just the passive chance for the watch skill to pick up hidden emotes, stealthy actions like peek/steal/palm, and also looking at or assessing someone. It doesn't cause your steal to fail, but somebody might see you do it. When checking to see if you passively spot an action with watch, having the skill gives a bonus chance to spot it. Since few characters have steal and most people don't get their watch skill very high, the odds of spotting a skilled thief are miniscule unless you're actively watching that character. When playing Saraan the Usurer, I would constantly notice other people do shit because I had high wisdom, high watch and maxed steal, peek, sleight, sneak, hide and whatever else. Watch is a really useful skill, and if you're playing a class without scan, it's very important to raise your watch so you have a potential counter to someone trying to cheese you with hide. If your class doesn't get advanced watch natively, you should even consider picking a subclass that gives that. For sneaky characters in particular, it helps a ton to be able to reliably notice when others start watching you. To raise watch, I'm pretty sure you have to actively fail to spot something a person does while watching them. I don't think it'll increase from passively not noticing a stealthy action in the room. This means you have to watch PCs/NPCs that do things, which can be tricky if you're a loner. I haven't been able to confirm if the hidden emote from looking at people counts as an action that will increase watch, but I believe the assess message does. One thing I liked to do was find a rat and shadow it, watch it, then go AFK for a little while and pretty soon you'll have failed to detect it sneaking or hiding. Yea, sorry I should have been more clear about the populated thing, I understand the effect of crowded areas being positive in the sense that the room is flagged as being crowded. I was wondering if non-victim watchers (or passive watchers?) affect chances Also, I think watching can cause your steal to fail, it seems to (as of 06) reduce your skill variable which I believe is the same one that is used in later rolls for success /* if the victim is watching the character give a penalty * Morg - 3/18/2006 */ if (is_char_actively_watching_char(victim, ch)) skill -= get_watched_penalty(victim);
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Post by lechuck on Sept 23, 2018 11:55:57 GMT -5
I'm talking about the passive chance to notice someone you aren't watching. When that check succeeds, you'll see what they do but it won't cause them to fail.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 12:09:38 GMT -5
Watching someone does give a penalty, but only if you're the victim.
If 6 people are watching you, but you're stealing from a 7th. There is no penalty to steal. You successfully steal, but those 6 people all see you do it.
If there are 8 people and the one whom you are stealing from is actively watching you, your steal is EXTREMELY penalized. All in all, when you're playing a young elf with AI agility, as a pickpocket. The last 20, or so fails can really be only achievable when you're being watched. Otherwise you'd never fail.
Which is why jaxa pah used to play that whole 'steal candy' circus in the basement, where the loser tells stories? Or whatever. I forget the details, but it was pretty awesome way to twink steal.
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Post by shakes on Sept 23, 2018 12:39:08 GMT -5
Steal + sleight of hand is a whole other game of mischief. The crap people leave in their inventory or hanging off their belt is simply amazing.
It's difficult to play a downtrodden, half-starved pickpocket once you hit about journeyman because you'll be rolling in sid.
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on Sept 23, 2018 19:13:57 GMT -5
Thanks! Steal + sleight of hand is a whole other game of mischief. The crap people leave in their inventory or hanging off their belt is simply amazing. It's difficult to play a downtrodden, half-starved pickpocket once you hit about journeyman because you'll be rolling in sid. How does sleight of hand factor in though, unlatching backpacks?
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Post by shakes on Sept 23, 2018 19:29:46 GMT -5
Yeah, you need sleight of hand skill to do that. It's easy to raise on your own bags. Just make a habit (or alias) of whenever you want to get into a bag, you latch it or unlatch it. One day you'll just look at your skillsheet and it's high.
The reality is though that I almost never risk unlatching a backpack unless I know there's something of high value in there. Like a noble's keys or a book or something.
Most of the time, if you're patient, you'll get a peek inside when they open it themselves to take something out, even if they close it back real quick. And then you either target them next time you see them or you follow them somewhere they're more likely to open the pack. Like to a merchant stand or something.
Stealing from pockets is a very fun aspect of the game. If you haven't ever engaged in it heavily with a character, I recommend throwing together a miscreant and going at it for awhile. It's time consuming, risky, and it doesn't draw the ire of staff as much as PK.
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