ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Jul 28, 2018 18:14:08 GMT -5
OK, gang I've completed critical path analysis for a replacement MUD for Armageddon, one that would be competitive, social, apocalyptic, role-play friendly and contain permadeath.
The results of my calculations was a surprisingly small figure. I really believe a competitive MUD could be launched, one likely to deliver a death-blow to Arm, in about 100 man hours with the right team.
I'll probably publish more about this in a couple of months or so. There's really no reason not to proceed with this.
Stay tuned!
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 28, 2018 19:26:54 GMT -5
You're hardly the first person to come up with the idea of launching one MUD to draw players from and eventually kill another, let alone Armageddon.
Armageddon started 27 years ago. You're talking about taking four days of work to kill something that has been around for decades. Sure, Armageddon has been in decline for the past several years, but there are numerous considerations to take when founding an online community with the intent on poaching another community's members that I wonder if you're considering.
The first concern is advertising your game and achieving the same level of name recognition that Armageddon currently possesses. Again, Armageddon has had decades to build its name. For better or worse, people know what it is.
The second concern is dealing with criticism from the overall MUD community for forming a game that appears to be little more than a clone. Armageddon has a bad reputation in the MUD community, particularly for its heinous community comprised abusive staff and players, and a player base that is seen as extremely zealous. If you make Not-Armageddon, people are going to associate your game with Armageddon. If you try to bring Armageddon players to Not-Armageddon, the same problems that Armageddon has will appear in Not-Armageddon.
The third concern is presenting an old and tried idea. This touches on the second point to some extent. Armageddon is clearly in decline, but it is in decline not because of how it changed, but because of how it did NOT change. It did not change to make the casual gameplay experience better. It did not change to remove abusive staff, and abusive staff practices. It protected players who broke the rules because they happened to be popular with the staff and the player base. It swept real-life crimes like stalking and harassment under the rug. Your game needs to be administrated in a way that prevents all of this, and that will mean taking a heavy hand at the right time, instead of on a whim. Do you think that you are a fair enough person to handle that? Do you know anyone who is?
The fourth concern is long-term maintenance. As I mentioned earlier, you have to staff the game you plan on making. Contrary to popular belief, Armageddon staff duties are not defined as doing fuck-all except watching players mudsex. If you want to run a successful game, you have to actually work, and it will likely take up a lot of your free time. A lot of this will be spent dealing with MUD drama. A minimal amount of time will be spent programming and writing.
Don't get me wrong. When I released the game's 2016 code base, or what of it I could obtain anyway, I fully expected people to make use of it in building their own game. I don't know if you plan on using that or not. But let's not pretend that the rest of the work is easy. I think you should show your work: produce your calculations and argue for how you reached this conclusion. Otherwise, consider the above a reality check.
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Post by shakes on Jul 29, 2018 0:50:31 GMT -5
OK, gang I've completed critical path analysis for a replacement MUD for Armageddon, one that would be competitive, social, apocalyptic, role-play friendly and contain permadeath.
The results of my calculations was a surprisingly small figure. I really believe a competitive MUD could be launched, one likely to deliver a death-blow to Arm, in about 100 man hours with the right team.
I'll probably publish more about this in a couple of months or so. There's really no reason not to proceed with this.
Stay tuned!
How come none of the 5,000+ other muds in existence out there haven't dealt that death-blow yet? Even if each one of those only siphoned off one or two players, or even if only one in a hundred siphoned off one player, wouldn't Arm be essentially empty? Aren't you the guy who was demanding the ability to rape people in Arm not too long ago in a thread? Do you think people are falling all over themselves looking for a place to do that and you're going to provide it to them? Well, they might be. I don't know. But it's certainly not encouraging to see any sort of project you're going to come up with considering 1. your stated goal and 2. your complaints about why you're not happy with Arm. If I was going to start a new mud, of which I KNOW is a shit-ton of work, then I wouldn't come anywhere near this theme, this code-base, or even really want the social-scale heavy playerbase of Arm to be the main constituents of said non-existent mud. The only way I'd ever engage that much time would be in something I WANT to do, and there's nobody in the world, particularly not in the internet world, who I want to spite bad enough to dedicate that much time with it as the main goal. Time to reevaluate some priorities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 2:10:07 GMT -5
I actually encourage creation of a MUD that could replace Armageddon. And worry not about advertisement. A simple post on these forums will guarantee a good 80$ of Arm's playerbase trying the game out. And that 80% will turn into 95 of current playerbase and a good 30 of old playerbase playing it. IF ... the game is as good as Ibusoe thinks he can make. Soo ... good luck!
It amuses me how Mehtastic insists on plugging the sexual accusations thing everywhere, despite it being demonstrated to be completely fake. I still maintain that the dude probably created a fake profile to post the fake accusation himself. He's so adamant about it.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 7:32:58 GMT -5
Don't act as if the whistleblower post was the very first instance of sexual harassment at Arm. Kronibas has posted about his experience with Vanth, and in 27 years of history it's safe to assume there have been other occurrences we haven't heard about. Take your retardation elsewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 12:48:54 GMT -5
Vanth was gone for 8+ years. And it wasnt covered, if Kronibas was to post something that Whistleblower posted, things might've been different.
Saying that any community of people is bound to have some weird creepy shit happening in 27 years of running is while true, is kind of sad. And helps nothing in any way. Just hide under the bed. Go nowhere, participate in nothing.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 13:39:03 GMT -5
For all your talk of constructive criticism, you sure jump to interesting conclusions in illogical ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 14:06:15 GMT -5
Would you like to take apart some of my conclusions and point out how are they illogical?
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Jul 29, 2018 14:08:48 GMT -5
And waste even more time responding to you than I already have? No thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 14:12:24 GMT -5
Then it's not really a conversation. I'm willing to backup my claims. Even if my evidence is circumstantial, on account of all this being internet based, it is at least an 'effort'. You're just plugging statements that were proven wrong in hopes others would read and not fact check. It's a style, you're free to do it.
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Post by lyse on Jul 29, 2018 15:40:00 GMT -5
Just....don’t make another Arm clone. I’m not even sure you want a game that Arm players would want to play.
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ibusoe
Clueless newb
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Post by ibusoe on Aug 1, 2018 11:18:20 GMT -5
Disagree, Sir. I think that this is where a lot of ambitious people fail. I tend to find fame antithetical to the things that I wish to accomplish. I don't want to have 600 fan-boys jump into my fame, I want 300 quality people. People such as yourself. To be frank, my Friend, I don't care a lot about the opinions of the MUD community. I care about the opinions of the people that wish to play the game. This will be a game built for the people who care to show up. Let this be our doctrine: mentalfloss.com/article/63389/roosevelts-man-arenaYour point is not without merit, and I admit that we won't be able to take everyone. People who only show up to ruin other people's fun won't have a place in the game. Likewise, I believe I shall be more successful at building a sense of ownership in the people whom play. It would be difficult to not be more successful than Armageddon at this. No, and that is one of the very problems that I intend to solve. For whatever reason, Arm Staff chose to focus on the gaming experience of the heads of the various clans, and those of the most extreme twinks. That's whom they balanced the game for. They chose to make the rest of us Red Shirts, no more immune to the grind than the twinks. My game, ours if you chose to play, will be made for people who want to show up and go on various adventures. Whether those be mini-adventures or epic quests should depend upon how much time you intend to sink on it. I do, and I submit as proof my conduct on this board. I challenge you to find a single instance of me saying something unkind to someone. If you succeed at finding one, I shall apologize twice: to them and to you. Agreed, and this is where I plan to spend most of my time. When I was a moody teenager, I was mentored by various older persons whom I met through role playing games. It's time that I give back. It is my intention, as Executive, to build the sort of game that I wish to play and then appoint someone else to run it. Some lucky person will have a ready-built game practically handed to them if they have the chops to run it. To prevent conflicts of interest, I'll play red shirt characters. My contribution to the game, as Executive will be to undertake the potentially painful task of cleaning up after a set of online children and to reduce bickering. Goes with the turf, I'd suppose. And perhaps I will, but first I wish to form the right team. Some have already expressed interest. After I add one or two more bodies, we shall perhaps present our plan. Thank you for your advice, Mehtastic, it shall be taken to heart.
I actually encourage creation of a MUD that could replace Armageddon. And worry not about advertisement. A simple post on these forums will guarantee a good 80$ of Arm's playerbase trying the game out. And that 80% will turn into 95 of current playerbase and a good 30 of old playerbase playing it.
Thanks! Yes, I was rather counting on the gang here to get the word out, once the MUD launches. I agree that if the game is fun, that this will encourage the best possible lip service.
Just....don’t make another Arm clone. I’m not even sure you want a game that Arm players would want to play.
To put your fears at rest, I intend to make a stand-alone game. I don't intend to copy Armageddon's copyright, and don't believe I shall be pilfering their code. If they cooperate, I shall make a companion project to Armageddon. Where their focuses are on the clan politics and intrigues between the predominant mages, my game will focus more on team work among interested players, adventure and enterprise. If you feel that this is somehow a mistake, I'd love to know how. (EDIT: And if they don't cooperate...well, it's not as if people aren't fleeing their aging game without my intervention.)
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 1, 2018 12:07:04 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I don't disagree with your effort/vision for a new game; I've just become highly skeptical of the chances another game will kill Arm after all this time. But I look forward to seeing if you can put a better game out there.
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faroukel
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Post by faroukel on Aug 1, 2018 12:46:30 GMT -5
While I cannot say much in regards to Armageddon...
Just the threat alone of another competitive game on a similar theme was able to shake SoI up, with game ownership changing, a new slate of 'more respectable staff'. (yea, we booted those dirty Arm staffers back to Arm, sorry).
That said...
A new mud is certainly a lofty goal.
Being able to coerce change on Arm by threatening a new mud, might work better? Maybe not. I really don't know.
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ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Aug 16, 2018 22:30:46 GMT -5
I'm very interested in people's opinion on Arx as a codebase for my game. Mostly, I'm interested in people's opinion on Arx as a candidate for long term support. I'd rather not try to run my MUD on abandonware, and I don't really know anything about Arx
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