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Post by shakes on Jul 3, 2018 19:04:01 GMT -5
If they were crashes the body would have disappears and the guy wouldn't still be mortally wounded, he'd be awake (albeit with negative health). That is if the timestamps on the log are correct (because recent code changes have fixed this). Also the game takes about ten minutes to boot up, or at least not the ten seconds it took to reconnect and log in as the timestamp on the log shows. I'm not sure. Inside a tent is a save room, so the body would persist through the crash wouldn't it? I don't know about the ten minutes. I've been back in the game within seconds after a crash before, I'm pretty sure. Also, each time he comes back he's not reconnecting, he's going through the 'enter the game' phase. The game was crashing a lot during that week, so I'm willing to believe it probably wasn't deliberate malfeasance as to deliberately disconnecting someone while they are involved in PK. If that was proved, it would escalate this dramatically. As it stands, I'm more willing to believe they just muddied their "customer service" with being rude, authoritative, and intervening where they shouldn't have.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 21:01:48 GMT -5
Agreed. That mage should've been stored after everything was figured out. The crashes are different and variable. Some of them completely boot you, some of them dont. All we can say is that crashes happen . I once performed the same assassination 6 times in a row (with variable success and failure). Perhaps every 4-5 minutes the game would crash (reboot instantly. no 10 minute wait), but everyone were reset 4-5 minutes. So I'd be on the opposite side of the city, etc. We reenacted the same conflict 6 times. Eventually we clashed again, but oocd a suggestion to try again another time and parted ways. The staff did act rushly, I dont dispute that. What I do dispute though is the concept of 'conspiracy' (Staff are protecting certain 'pets' at expense of others) and the concept of Staff are forcing log offs on players to influence IG events. That is paranoia and it saddens me to see people stating it in such a matter-of-factly manner.
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Post by lyse on Jul 5, 2018 17:31:48 GMT -5
Firstly, there was only one mention of staff pets or anything like that. One. And it was directed at you. I'm pretty sure it was done jokingly, so you can come right down from the conspiracy high horse. As far as your anecdote. What you described were adults playing a scene out even though the game crashed on you six times. Cool, that's not what happened here though. What happened here is completely different, crashes or not. You don't think the crashes were suspicious, I do. They're odd and bad timing for this whole situation. Its cool though, I'll side step that one and talk about what was really important. What's really important here is staff intervened where they shouldn't have and handled the situation completely wrong. There is a long history in this game of staff mishandling situations and it has to stop. There is very little accountability for staff and it's always been like that. That player can't file a staff complaint because he/she doesn't know who the staff that intervened is. The correct action would've been to observe the pk and then step in and ask for a log. Right at the beginning of the log you can see Soh player was contacted and ran all the way there. That answers that question. The staff stopped the scene and asked "How did you know where to go?" then the 'gick player is like "Yeah...that's what I wanna know." Now it looks like they're ganging up on Soh Player. Again, handled wrong. Finally he's told to send a log, which he does. But in the meantime, the scene up until that point stands, but 'gick dude is saved? That's....pretty suspicious. Even if the staffer's intentions were good, handled wrong. Now I could keep going about the "How about we just store you then." Hopefully you get the picture, it should be a no brainer that the situation was handled wrong plain and simple. This is not paranoia, this is simply what happened and it's indisputable that it was wrong. But I'm going to explain to you why it was wrong anyway. The days of "play or don't play" are long gone for MUDs. But to do something like that and then take that kind of stance is detrimental to the game. It's detrimental because the days of Armageddon being the premier MUD are long over. You can't afford to treat your players like that, simply because there aren't 100 players waiting to take his place anymore. To use your analogy, Staff coming in like a SWAT team shouldn't ever be uttered like it's ok. The fact that you even liken Staff to a SWAT team is deeply disturbing. It's disturbing because you've normalized a behavior where staff can shit on you and you have no recourse but to accept it or play something else. Most people just opt to play somewhere else, but you who have accepted it tells them it's ok to treat you like that. Honestly, I understand you love the game. I think we've all had a moment in time where we loved the game. There comes a point though where you grow up and realize that being treated with indifference at best and naked bias at worse is unacceptable. What makes a good game is indeed, fairness. But some of you its not a game it's a way of life. Since life isn't fair or Zalanthas isn't fair, by extension the game shouldn't be fair. You've internalized that mentality to accept unfairness and arbitrary rulings as business as usual just because you love the game. I'm not sure whether it's Stockholm Syndrome, cult behavior, masochism or what it is exactly. The fact is you've accepted something that just isn't normal and then you described a pretty despicable action as if it was heroic....like a SWAT team. You pretty much overlooked everything that happened to SLK player and condensed it down into two sentences "Staff did act rushly" and "The mage should've been stored after that." There was much, much more going over there that you just willingly overlooked. You're not alone, I'm sure there are other players that think like you do and don't see anything wrong here to even talk about it. It's one of those things, you don't believe until it's happening to you. Why? Because you naturally believe that staff doesn't act arbitrarily, do vindictive things against players, etc. But here they do, on Armageddon they do just that. And you buy it. You buy the "That was 20 years ago we don't do that now" when evidence appears from a year ago that yes, they actually do do that you go "Welllllll...it wasn't that bad. That just wasn't nice." The thing is there are a finite number of people that are willing to put up with that kind of treatment, there are a finite number of people that are willing to even try Armageddon. I'm sad too, but not for the same reasons you are. I'm sad because you accept staff behavior like this and you think its normal and not aberrant. I'm sad because you feel like "That's just the way it is...so what?" I'm sad, because you can't even acknowledge that you've lost another player to something that shouldn't have even happened the way it did. I'm sad that you can't even entertain the possibility there was some form of favoritism that occurred.
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ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Jul 8, 2018 14:40:53 GMT -5
See what I mean? Everything's a little one sided here in this situation. The staffer acted rushly, but he had to rush, because he didnt know the situation and tried to act quickly. This is akin to SWAT moving into a building. They dont stop and figure out who's a criminal and who's not, they put 'everyone' down by force. Nooot the best way handled, but nobody got hurt, did they?
I appreciate your post. You're attempting to rule out any obvious mistakes on the part of staff, before the rest of us assume conspiracy. Efforts such as yours are what prevent this board from becoming an echo chamber, and what make this the real GDB, as opposed to that staff-run monstrosity over at their site.
But your analysis doesn't hold up to scrutiny. This was probably favoritism. At best it was incompetent protectionism. You're correct that this was probably a knee-jerk reaction rather than an illuminati-type conspiracy. But knee-jerk reactions can reveal a lot about people, and my read on the situation is that staff intervened to defend a "big player" from dying at the hands of a "little player." As I said, favoritism.
The fact that you could get turned around on this, and I don't mean to talk down to you because you're clearly trying, is that you seem to have "boiled frog" syndrome. You're so used to shitty staff mismanagement that you're double-thinking you're way into seeing their incompetence as reasonable, policy-compliant refereeing.
Armageddon MUD is supposed to be a mosh pit. If two contestants are trying to get into it with each other, default behavior on the part of staff shouldn't be anything other than to let people cut each other's throats. If the supplied log is valid, it doesn't indicate anything less than staff being so incompetent that they're mad at a boxer for punching the other boxer.
This is not an easy call to make, but it's the minimum level of clarity a staffer would need to have to referee a boxing match or a mosh pit. If watching moshers run into each other triggers you, you're unqualified to do security at a Pantera concert.
An acerbating factor is that it was a high-karma character getting smacked down by a low karma character. I'd argue that if it weren't apparent to someone that the low-karma player should be allowed to take a shot on goal, not only should they not be on staff but they're incompetent to even play Armageddon.
It's funny to see the witch getting sore over the fact that he's getting rolled by a low-karma character, especially after he just preyed on one. It takes a cheater to know a cheater. Can't understand how that guy wouldn't get docked karma for that. Perhaps you're about to allege that he may have been docked karma, and that I don't have sufficient information to assume that he wasn't? Of course I don't, but absent any public or semi-public display of justice, what else am I to assume? If my case hadn't made it over here, nobody would even know about it. Staff decline time and again to speak to us here, to apologize, make amend nor reform.
These people aren't....Hitler, but they're a group of Bozo's unqualified to run a MUD. This is what the gaming industry was like in the 90's, run by neck beards. Arm hasn't progressed from that. No part of it has.
EDIT: They have the crème de la crème of the internet's roleplay talent at their disposal, and the best they're able to is create an indulgent sandbox that only a *********** could fap to. Arm is not even edgy anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 13:51:15 GMT -5
Ooophh.
Responding to Lyse.
Lyse:
From Purg From Sneazy
Lyse:
And this worries me. It demonstrates a certain destructive mindset. If I ever felt so negative about 'anything' like that, the last thing I would do is spend time in activities related to it. I would've told it to get fucked and moved on to things that make me happy. Otherwise, this pre-set mindset poisons 'everything'. With this mindset, if a Mek walks in on you, it's staff loading on you. If I get disconnected during a fight, it's staff fucking with me to make me die. If I get beat by someone else, it's staff pumping up the skillz of their alts. This is an unhealthy mindset and a person should either learn to change it, or just plain move on. Clearly plenty of people are enjoying the game. Clearly, you dont. It's hard for me to find reason or some kind of an amelioration with that kind of mindset. The difference is so significant. You're dead certain this was staff caused log outs, while Shakes, a player who was partially participant of the events of that very log, have suffered similar log outs first hand and Staff intervention did not cross his mind. Despite him being there directly, instead of a log read a year ago, like in your situation. Makes me think that it didnt matter what the log was about, your mental preset about staff would color it bad regardless. And 'that' is important. Literally the most important part of this thread.
Lyse:
From Eru
Poor reading comprehension? Or just a way to turn one statement and turn it around in a way that makes it look negative? Probably the former.
Lyse: Yes. It needs to stop. By ... recruiting different new staff. Which is happening all the time. Staff is as good as the game's playerbase, since staff 'is' the playerbase. How else would you stop it? By making it super transparent! Sure. How? It's impossible to know who the Staffer interacting with you is. It's very possible, just ask their name. Part of why I think Rathustra is awesome is that he makes it a point to make it known to people he deals with that it's Rathustra. Makes things accountable. So yeah, it is better if Staff made it a policy to introduce whenever they start interaction with a player. Police do it, they introduce themselves and have a badge number to create accountability. Maybe staff should as well. But it 'is' a little sad and it's understandable why staff are not yet used to such things. Staff right now are players with a bit of extra powers, that's all. Maybe making it a policy to make Staff always introduce themselves whenever they begin interaction is a good idea. How else do we make it transparent? Any constructive thoughts? Or should I find a staffer to drink some cum from, since I dont fit the 'hate staff' criteria?
There is plenty of accountability for staff. Staff do screw up. It's just, the assumption is that all staff mean to do better, it's just sometimes they fail. Often spectacularly. Recently, a staffer did a total TPK of his entire clan, due to mishandling of code. Ouch. But what punishment would you really offer? Beheading? Firing? The guy/gal was trying their best and ment well. They just fucked up. Bad! Instructions to do it different next time? Yes. That does happen and often. It's the situations when a bad egg is prolific enough compared to the good eggs, so he grows up in rank so fast, he doesnt have the time to improve and be taught to not be an asshole. Suddenly they end up being in a position that's too high to be punished and are yet not truly genuinely ready for that position. The only reason they ended up there was because they worked hard and sunk a shitton of hours into the game. Also to the benefit of the game obviously. This happened to Nyr. This happened to Noted Liar Noted Liar Nergal. The only solution to this is for good, wise, mentally stable, objective people to gain high positions. But those people have better things to do then spend 20 hours a day in a game. Some people manage. IE Rathustra. Calavera is also awesome, but lo and behold, the moment she got busy IRL, the first thing she discarded as waste of time was Arm. You cant become a Producer with a philosophy like that!
The only way to fix Staff abuse, is to stop being an asshole yourself. Become a dependable, reliable player. Eventually be recruited as Staff and 'still' manage not to become an asshole. Staff are as good as the playerbase is. And you guys are lucky that people like Sirra (who is a pretty good roleplayer and a joy to be in a clan that he's a leader of, but gets all sort of sour and miffed, when he wipes out entire NPC tribes and is surprised, annoyed, and dejected when the virtual world reacts accordingly) is not on staff, or mehtastic (I truthfully do not know who this dude is. He showed up recently, but I'm assuming he was active under another handle before) anyways you should be glad he is not on staff.
It's so easy to destroy. Post about how much staff suck. It doesnt do anything constructive, merely poisons the experience for everyone. The only real solution requires actual effort. And let's admit, 90% of this forum's membership (myself included) either do not have the wish, or the time to genuinely put in effort into anything Arm related.
Out of curiosity. Can you name five players who you think would do better job as staff?
From Lyse What things? The disconnects? That's paranoia talking. Shakes, who was partly participant of this log did not find them particularly odd. Although unfortunate. You do, a year later, through a log, with black-colored glasses of Staff Villainy. What else did I overlook? The staff did act rushly. The Mage should've been stored after this was figured out. Anything else there is just your bias. Or am I wrong? How am I wrong? Explain it to me. Support your arguments.
From Ibusoe.
It's not really that I'm used to it. At one point in time, I used to be part of it, which allowed me some insight and understanding of a pretty significant truth. The current staff 'are' the playerbase. And playerbase are a bunch of assholes who sometimes fuck up. There is an attempt to keep things objective. Not too long ago, a staff avatar died due to a rather poorly documented/tested/coded feature. The player who caused the death asked to have the victim resurrected. The staffer himself/herself did too. A bunch of other Storytellers wanted to resurrect it, because the death was totally bogus. And administration still ruled against it, for mainly two reasons. One: The death was not due to a bug. Two: The character was ran by a staffer and we oughta be 'extra' hard on our own. Bullshit in my opinion, but whatever. What I'm arguing against is that illuminati part conspiracy thing. What was in the staffer's head during this is unknown. Probably to them themselves. But generally, there's so much scrutiny and IDB conversation about situations like these, that I honestly disbelieve that a staffer would put himself on a line to save a character from death, just because he/she likes the player. Unless this was Nessalin. Nessalin doesnt give a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
What I'm arguing against is an attempt of some participants of these forums to create an illusion of this monolithic corrupt system that will fuck with any person who chooses to play the game, in order to appease veteran characters. That does not happen. In reality, in part, the opposite is true. True to a point of going against the policy. Ie Miradus' banning, because he managed to PK a bunch of newbs (sometimes idiotic reasons like killing a tribe mate for disagreeing with him, sometimes valid like a totally 'in your face' thieving elf) in a short timespan and got himself rather unjustifiably banned for it for a little while. Those PKs did not deserve a ban, but it just happened that he kept stumbling into complete newbs that he killed, that reaction was so strong.
Unfortunately, there is no shit one, or more people who are out to burn Arm down. Creating bots, spreading negativity, trying hard to compromise anything positive in publicity. Potentially even creating false complaints of sexual harassment by 0 post profile accounts. I cant prove the latter yet, but how would I? People would have to choose what to believe. Years ago, the idea was "Arm is dead, any moment it will shut down." Years have passed and Arm is still stable. Less people, more people. It has a stable playerbase that plays. Some of those people decided to take an active part in the game's demise and I, personally, am willing to spend some time to try and urge people to observe these attempts with a bit of a grain of salt.
From Ibusoe
The creme de la creme? No we dont. The creme de la creme are in their 30s-40s, making humans, and earning six figure salaries, or teaching young minds, or earning doctorates. I asked this question to Lyse, but I'll ask you as well. Can you name five current players who would do better jobs as staff then current staff?
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Post by shakes on Jul 10, 2018 14:22:50 GMT -5
I don't want to play the "name five" game. I could name a few who I think would be decent, but they'd just be picked apart here and why would you put anyone you like through that?
I don't have problems with ALL Arm staff. I have problems with SOME of Arm's staff, and I can't even name whom because they never disclose who they are when they do things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 14:30:13 GMT -5
I don't want to play the "name five" game. I could name a few who I think would be decent, but they'd just be picked apart here and why would you put anyone you like through that? I don't have problems with ALL Arm staff. I have problems with SOME of Arm's staff, and I can't even name whom because they never disclose who they are when they do things. Would you be able to give a few examples?
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Post by shakes on Jul 10, 2018 15:31:13 GMT -5
I have in the past. Really only been one signature event that I felt was way out of line. There's been a few other minor events but I can put names to those, and it wasn't so much as injustice as just uncalled for rudeness and heavy-handed dictates.
The only things I'd like to see staff improve on is transparency in activities, and less attitude towards the playerbase. Sure, they're volunteers ... so are we. And I can point you to a dozen muds where you have a large staff presiding over 2-3 players after they ran everyone off.
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Post by lyse on Jul 10, 2018 17:35:36 GMT -5
Ooophh. Followed by lots of stuff. That's cool and all. The fact that you're on this board filled with examples of staff doing underhanded things and you're still saying "I just don't see it." All you have to do is look a little. I'm not saying everybody is innocent, but there's should be enough here to give you pause. The fact that you quoted someone saying staff nerf'd someone's activity as if it's a point against me tells me a lot. Someone said staff nerfed someone's activity! YOU said staff nerfs people's activity. That's just not normal...I'm sorry, and you didn't even elaborate on it. That confirms that indeed...staff are doing underhanded things to people. They can hide from it because....anonymity. Please, that staff didn't allow SohMan to kill 'gick man because rezzing 'gick man WOULD have been an issue. I didn't need confirmation though. I already knew that. It's also funny that you brought up staff dropping a Mek on someone. Because that very thing happened to me. Wanna hear the story? I'll tell it again. I was playing a water witch and I got with a group. This was back in the days where there were no camps, staff had to make one and they moved them around. So sometimes, you'd log off in a camp and when you logged back in, the camp would be gone and you'd have to find the new one. Well...I wayed some dude in the group so he could give me directions to the new camp. I'm trying to find my way and a mek shows up. I'm running from the mek and I get disconnected. When I log back in I'm dead. So I email for a rez request. The reply was "Yeah, I dropped the mek in the next room. I thought it would be fun to chase you around a little bit. Normally, we'd rez you because you got disconnected, but since you were in contact with someone we can't because they know you're dead. Sorry." That was it, that was a reply from staff. You know what people asked me? Do you have a log? Um...no I don't. But I wouldn't lie about that either. That was a thing....and it really happened. So the point here is....YES staff does do shitty little things. This is known, so for you to pretend like they don't do shitty things is funny and the fact that you're doubling down on it is even funnier. People don't need a log for everything. Some of us have experienced the very same thing. Just because they can hide behind someone, doesn't mean that they aren't doing little things like disconnecting players, or dropping meks in rooms. They do it because they can and it's hard to prove. People aren't stupid though, they know when something isn't quite right. It should be clear to you in this log that something was very wrong there. That's your gaslighting right there. When you pop up with "LOGS or it didn't happen!" that's victim shaming. That why I keep saying it's pointless to keep going back and forth with you. Either you've never experienced those types of things or you never noticed or you're just playing dumb. Nobody said staff doesn't do awesome things. The point here is....they do fucked up things too. Those things aren't exclusive. When staff does something fucked up they should be put on notice, not defended. Why are we doing "Pick 5 players who should be staff?" All you really have to do is just accept they did something really, really bad and that it shouldn't happen again. Instead, you're worried about how the conversation with Rathustra went. Please, that was damage control. Not the same thing. Why don't we talk about how staff nerfs clans like you said. That's what I want to know more about.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 17:47:35 GMT -5
Okey. Definitely Reading comprehension. We are discussing things here. A few times, I asked in my posts, "How do you nerf a clan?" On which you got suddenly weirded oh, "What an odd question. You're the only one bringing this up!" This puzzled me, but I assumed you simply did not read other's posts very well. So I made it clear that 'others', others that are 'not' you, have raised the issue and I asked them 'how do you nerf a clan'. You kept insisting that I was the only one who raised the topic, so I posted 'quotes' of other people's posts. I did everything I could to be all, "Hey! Look. Reread the post. You're asking stuff, because you havent read properly." Instead of reading properly, you have elected for the quotes to confirm that staff are doing underhanded things to people. I didn't need confirmation though. Indeed, lol. At this point, I can post a recipe to apple pie and you'll see it as confirmation that staff are doing underhanded things to people. How can you not have a log of a request? All requests are logged! They're there, right now. Post it! Post the entire conversation right here. I disbelieve you. I do not believe you that the staffer 'truly' loaded a Mek on you. I imagine if a staffer did say that, it was a tongue in cheek. Much like "Well. It seems whatever you'll say will confirm that I'm evil, I might as well start to troll." But who knows. Maybe it was serious. Post it! Post the request exchange. In it's entirety. Requests are all logged, and those exchanges are available to you. Post it, Lyse!
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Post by lyse on Jul 10, 2018 18:14:16 GMT -5
I was waiting for you to become insulting.
You said "How do you nerf a clan?" in a paragraph of it's own. With nothing behind it, no detail, no nothing.
Then in the next paragraph you said "See what I mean?" No, I don't because you said "How do you nerf a clan?" with nothing to follow it up. Yeah, it's odd you brought that up right then and there because nobody said anything about nerfing a clan. So I asked you why bring that up at that moment, because it had nothing to do with what occurred.
The log was about a player that got interference from staff and basically told to go fuck himself. Then got stored when he spoke up about it. Nobody said anything about nerfing a clan.
As for the rest of what you said....yeah. If you didn't notice, I said it was via email, which should clue you in that it was before there was a request tool.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 18:23:50 GMT -5
Lyse. Someone 'did' say something about nerfing a clan. And the question was directed to them. I even provided a quote from their post to indicate for you, that someone 'did' raise this issue. Oh. My apologies. I missed the email thing. So this was before 2006? I can see you not having that email. It was 12 years ago and all. Are you seriously providing a 12 year old exchange to support a today's issue? Out of all of the currently active staff, only 4 of them were around back then as staff. 2 of which are producers, 1 a coder, and 1 is Loonsh .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 18:33:06 GMT -5
I have in the past. Really only been one signature event that I felt was way out of line. There's been a few other minor events but I can put names to those, and it wasn't so much as injustice as just uncalled for rudeness and heavy-handed dictates. The only things I'd like to see staff improve on is transparency in activities, and less attitude towards the playerbase. Sure, they're volunteers ... so are we. And I can point you to a dozen muds where you have a large staff presiding over 2-3 players after they ran everyone off. Yeah. I've observed it happening real time. When an Okey player suddenly got all uppity and domineering, when put in a position of responding to a player from a Staff account/request tool. It goes away with life experience, when 'authority' starts to associate with 'responsibility', instead of 'opportunity'. But that's a human thing. It's ... a bane of humanity in many aspects IRL. The thing about me asking to mention five players. Is that the odds are good, that at least one of the people you potentially could've mentioned have already been a staffer at one time, or another. Unless you'll name someone truly obscure and unsupported. It was a shot in the dark kind of thing. I personally would've found it hilarious if someone gave five names and it turned out that all five of them are either current, or past staff.
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Post by lyse on Jul 10, 2018 19:29:16 GMT -5
Lyse. Someone 'did' say something about nerfing a clan. And the question was directed to them. I even provided a quote from their post to indicate for you, that someone 'did' raise this issue. Oh. My apologies. I missed the email thing. So this was before 2006? I can see you not having that email. It was 12 years ago and all. Are you seriously providing a 12 year old exchange to support a today's issue? Out of all of the currently active staff, only 4 of them were around back then as staff. 2 of which are producers, 1 a coder, and 1 is Loonsh . Yeah, but he said nerf'd HIS (his friend's) clan activity. Not the activity of a whole clan. That one word is kind of important there. I would like more elaboration on that, but those are questions you aren't asking. You went on to say you can see why they do that with GMHs, etc. The question is, why would they do that and simply not have a conversation with the players. Why would staff do something shady to nerf a clan? So in other words, you brought up something not really related, but is another questionable thing that staff does....if that is what you meant. Meanwhile, him clarifying how his friend got nerf'd only adds more weight that something was going on there. Which is what you're arguing against, right? It was 12 years ago. It's not about who's on staff now that was on staff back then at all. You all keep going back to the that was "Years ago" thing. but the logs and anecdotes provided in the last couple weeks say "No, those types of things still happen." It was about staff doing petty things and they have an established history of doing them. I...think I even said that. Oh, I did say that. Maybe you skipped over that too. Isn't that what this thread is about? Staff doing petty little things? If what happened is not petty to you, that's cool too. I think you've made it abundantly clear that you don't feel that way. I'm not sure what it would take for you to even raise your eyebrow at this point, because he did provide a log of what happened. If you want to look at something more recent, look at Desertman's thread on how they nerf'd the Byn when he was playing that sergeant. My whole point to you is these things do happen. I was there for that one too. I've been around for a lot of shady things, so yeah.....maybe it's good that someone brings these things to light, no?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 19:36:57 GMT -5
The question wasnt 'why'. The question was 'how'.
Player A "clan X got nerfed" Player B "Nerfed how? How can you nerf a clan?" Player A "They stalled a bunch of plots they had going." Player C "That's an odd question. Why would you nerf a clan? This is very suspicious. Your question proves to me that staff is out to get me."
This basically how this conversation is going.
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