OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 8, 2016 14:20:59 GMT -5
If this was a MUSH, I might have considered coming out of hiding to first emote in detail how my character was going to ambush the guy without warning. Since it isn't, and such a thing is by no means a reasonable expectation, I didn't. I emoted afterwards, that's more than most people would do. I'm not losing any sleep over not emoting before backstabbing, literally nobody does that. Anyone who has ever tried to play a professional assassin, or thief for that matter, knows why you don't do that.
The unfortunate thing about skills like backstab and steal is that all someone has to do to become literally untouchable is... walk. Go east or whatever. If you stack movement commands, you cannot be backstabbed or stolen from because the 'you move silently blabla' delay is longer than the walking movement delay. If you as the assailant stop to type something, it's virtually guaranteed that you won't have time to actually backstab as the other guy would have walked to the next room while you were typing; and in this case, that would have put us next to soldiers.
In other words, there's a reason this game has stealth skills and no rules that force you to emote hidden actions. If I'd had to do that, the assassination would have been impossible. Hidden actions are, in general, mutually exclusive with the target knowing you're there. The only way to play an assassin is to catch players by surprise just as you do their characters.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 8, 2016 14:23:36 GMT -5
You can guarantee staff will ignore the assassination ever took place and refuse to acknowledge any plot lines which could develop from it. And that's the case whether newtwink exposed the ic event here on the shadow boards or not. It's like pearls third death all over again (yes, third, urinemoose....saying it was only a one time rez doesn't make it so and you weren't even on staff back then).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 14:25:25 GMT -5
If this was a MUSH, I might have considered coming out of hiding to first emote in detail how my character was going to ambush the guy without warning. Since it isn't, and such a thing is by no means a reasonable expectation, I didn't. I emoted afterwards, that's more than most people would do. I'm not losing any sleep over not emoting before backstabbing, literally nobody does that. Anyone who has ever tried to play a professional assassin, or thief for that matter, knows why you don't do that. Yup, which is why I defended you not doing that (most of my characters have played assassins), but why you don't do that is certainly applicable on a case by case basis. Where one normally doesn't have that option, you did. You didn't choose it and that's fine; it was actually a viable option as opposed to a ludicrous one (which it usually is) in this case though. Edit: I mean imo having an opportunity to RP it out is just a diamond in the rough is all.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,030
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Post by jkarr on Apr 8, 2016 14:32:50 GMT -5
emoting isnt rp etc etc
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 8, 2016 14:35:31 GMT -5
If this was a MUSH, I might have considered coming out of hiding to first emote in detail how my character was going to ambush the guy without warning. Since it isn't, and such a thing is by no means a reasonable expectation, I didn't. I emoted afterwards, that's more than most people would do. I'm not losing any sleep over not emoting before backstabbing, literally nobody does that. Anyone who has ever tried to play a professional assassin, or thief for that matter, knows why you don't do that. Yup, which is why I defended you not doing that (most of my characters have played assassins), but why you don't do that is certainly applicable on a case by case basis. Where one normally doesn't have that option, you did. You didn't choose it and that's fine; it was actually a viable option as opposed to a ludicrous one (which it usually is) in this case though. Edit: I mean imo having an opportunity to RP it out is just a diamond in the rough is all. I actually think it's best not to. Emoting afterwards is nice; you do have like twelve seconds before you can do anything, anyway, so you might as well emote something for the sake of flavour. Before the act, though, I think it's actually a little wrong to do so. I believe that if the character is unaware, it's best that the player is as well. It creates a disconnect between player and character if you emote something that the character isn't supposed to react to, putting all the burden on the target to do nothing as he waits for his character to become a victim. The best you can expect from that is 'emote continues to do what he was doing, whistling obliviously.' There's a whole spectrum of increasingly worse reactions that you might see, some of which are bad but understandable as players who are otherwise trustworthy might, when startled and under pressure, react in ways that even they themselves wouldn't agree with. I think it's best not to emote in situations like that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 14:56:30 GMT -5
Yup, which is why I defended you not doing that (most of my characters have played assassins), but why you don't do that is certainly applicable on a case by case basis. Where one normally doesn't have that option, you did. You didn't choose it and that's fine; it was actually a viable option as opposed to a ludicrous one (which it usually is) in this case though. Edit: I mean imo having an opportunity to RP it out is just a diamond in the rough is all. I actually think it's best not to. Emoting afterwards is nice; you do have like twelve seconds before you can do anything, anyway, so you might as well emote something for the sake of flavour. Before the act, though, I think it's actually a little wrong to do so. I believe that if the character is unaware, it's best that the player is as well. It creates a disconnect between player and character if you emote something that the character isn't supposed to react to, putting all the burden on the target to do nothing as he waits for his character to become a victim. The best you can expect from that is 'emote continues to do what he was doing, whistling obliviously.' There's a whole spectrum of increasingly worse reactions that you might see, some of which are bad but understandable as players who are otherwise trustworthy might, when startled and under pressure, react in ways that even they themselves wouldn't agree with. I think it's best not to emote in situations like that. Yeah, emoting the attack itself out could be dumb. One could maybe have had a neat interaction like dropping the guild cloth on the ground before they enter a room or something - letting the victim see your call sign before ending them would be pretty legit. I've never done anything that cool... never tried backstabbing someone who I would have thought I could have pulled it off on and most of my assassins didn't have a callsign anyways. Sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick you not doing so. Not doing so is a perfectly valid option too. I'm jealous that you had the opportunity though.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,034
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Post by punished ppurg on Apr 8, 2016 14:59:24 GMT -5
That was actually the second attempt to kill him. A RL day earlier, I made the first attempt but the NPC succeeded its guard check and I had to flee. The next day, Valorisk went the exact same route as last time, and timed it so that he stepped into the same room (the one with the side street on Arena Road) precisely as dusk turned to night. He basically set up his own assassination. I'm pretty sure he was happy to get rid if his character without having to be seen storing a noble with enemies. Huh. That actually validates criticism for not emoting things out then - it wouldn't have been likely that he would have emoted the scene out instead of hightailing it and not being seen in public for a year. "I think this noble is trying to get himself killed so I'm going to meta his meta." Oh fuck off with this Inception thinking. This is the reason why all RP in Arm is criticized - a combination of hindsight and putting words in peoples' mouths who haven't even spoken. If you have to look so deep into a quasi-hole of expectation to point that out, and hold it up saying, "Hah! This was the meta-situation, you've failed!", then you're best not even articulating that criticism. JFK wanted to be assassinated because he rode through Dallas wearing a brace that stopped him from ducking out of the way of bullets. This sort of conspiratorial thinking is just insane.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 15:02:23 GMT -5
Huh. That actually validates criticism for not emoting things out then - it wouldn't have been likely that he would have emoted the scene out instead of hightailing it and not being seen in public for a year. "I think this noble is trying to get himself killed so I'm going to meta his meta." Oh fuck off with this Inception thinking. This is the reason why all RP in Arm is criticized - a combination of hindsight and putting words in peoples' mouths who haven't even spoken. If you have to look so deep into a quasi-hole of expectation to point that out, and hold it up saying, "Hah! This was the meta-situation, you've failed!", then you're best not even articulating that criticism. JFK wanted to be assassinated because he rode through Dallas wearing a brace that stopped him from ducking out of the way of bullets. This sort of conspiratorial thinking is just insane. Calm your tits PPP. That's an extremely strong exaggeration of what I didn't say. </3
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,030
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Post by jkarr on Apr 8, 2016 15:02:24 GMT -5
I actually think it's best not to. Emoting afterwards is nice; you do have like twelve seconds before you can do anything, anyway, so you might as well emote something for the sake of flavour. Before the act, though, I think it's actually a little wrong to do so. I believe that if the character is unaware, it's best that the player is as well. agreed and all the bitching and whining u hear from other players comes from a place where someone convinced them it was their birthright to be in a position of awareness on everything that happens to their char (looooool) It creates a disconnect between player and character if you emote something that the character isn't supposed to react to, putting all the burden on the target to do nothing as he waits for his character to become a victim. The best you can expect from that is 'emote continues to do what he was doing, whistling obliviously.' There's a whole spectrum of increasingly worse reactions that you might see, some of which are bad but understandable as players who are otherwise trustworthy might, when startled and under pressure, react in ways that even they themselves wouldn't agree with. I think it's best not to emote in situations like that. yeah but the concern abt alerting the player for the sake of rp doesnt really exist and hasnt for some years now, because if ur char wouldnt have been noticed on the approach, u can just semote it other times if u arent in a rush and u know u can drop the guy quick, it can fun to throw in some change in ambience that may tip the char off just before they die, ie a little sprinkle of sugar over a steaming pile of shit to let them know u cared lololol. id usually toss in something like 'emote a sudden flash of movement disrupts the still, stale air as @ leaps down from the rafters!' so yeah its a weak salve for the butthurt that ur not obligated to give a shit abt in the 1st place. nice log btw
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,034
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Post by punished ppurg on Apr 8, 2016 15:05:06 GMT -5
"I think this noble is trying to get himself killed so I'm going to meta his meta." Oh fuck off with this Inception thinking. This is the reason why all RP in Arm is criticized - a combination of hindsight and putting words in peoples' mouths who haven't even spoken. If you have to look so deep into a quasi-hole of expectation to point that out, and hold it up saying, "Hah! This was the meta-situation, you've failed!", then you're best not even articulating that criticism. JFK wanted to be assassinated because he rode through Dallas wearing a brace that stopped him from ducking out of the way of bullets. This sort of conspiratorial thinking is just insane. Calm your tits PPP. That's an extremely strong exaggeration of what I didn't say. </3 I'm shooting past you, at the people behind you who would use that same thing you've identified only worse. Nothing personal; and I see that you've talked it out while I was typing so I apologize. It's just not a valid way of thinking, placing that schizophrenic expectation on a player. Sorry bb.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 8, 2016 15:45:07 GMT -5
agreed and all the bitching and whining u hear from other players comes from a place where someone convinced them it was their birthright to be in a position of awareness on everything that happens to their char (looooool) Honestly, I don't even really view that stuff as an opinion that they genuinely have. They're people who attack all criticism. There's a pretty big portion of Arm players who are against criticism and will contrive to have whatever view is the polar opposite of that of someone criticizing the game. They make it up at that moment and their views therefore have no value or merit whatsoever. Someone who genuinely has a different view, like @hunted did, deserves a response. Someone who simply shows up on some throwaway account to spew insults at everyone who gainsays the game is not worth trying to reason with. I don't regard it as an actual opinion that somebody has, it's just whiteknighting and contrarianism.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 8, 2016 18:45:18 GMT -5
That's because most of the active, ambitious, and self-driven making-their-own-fun players got driven off by the staff over the last few years. Or they moved on with their lives. Or they're playing differing roles. Or they're squelched by the current player administration. This is an absolutely worthless reply. We were discussing players who were driven off and you list among your hypothetical excuses, "maybe they're just playing another role." Really? The players I mentioned who stopped playing are still hypothetically playing? That's brilliant, but no, they were driven off. Everyone I know who quit Arm --myself included-- was driven off. Everyone here who quit listed their reason for quitting as being driven off by the staff (save for one person who quit over the GDB). You're facing a massive credibility gap when you start making shit up that doesn't match the experience of all but one person in the entire group you're addressing. I'd also add that being able to come up with a reply is not the same thing as having a valid response. If you have some vast wealth of knowledge of actual players who just up and left, please share it. Otherwise drop this bullshit that's only one step removed from invoking an argument from ignorance fallacy. Vitriolic ranting is not indisputable evidence. Yes, and hypothetical allusions are worthless. How about you show off some of that mountain of proof to the contrary that you're probably sitting on? You know, actual proof. The thing where you're not effectively saying "maybe" in every sentence to try to imply your guesswork is backed by actual data, but actually present that actual data instead. Did I say "actual" enough that you can grasp that when you evade this request for information we both know you don't have, no one will be confused into believing you secretly have it? Staff want you to have fun. Believe it or not. Guess which I chose, you contrarian jackass.
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Post by jcarter on Apr 8, 2016 19:34:13 GMT -5
This entire thread is hilarious. "One-Eyed Amos" the shitty, twink player is upset that staff ignored him and his plots so he stores. Did you ever stop and think why you got no support? Look at how you handled this assassination of a Borsail noble? You stalked him, hit backstab, stole his ring without missing a beat, and hid again. Then stored and came here when no one gave a shit about your grand accomplishment. I'm so happy you're gone, you have no idea. What a champagne problem to have, losing THIS GUY from the game. LOL. thank you for your bravery in posting this. i didn't want to say anything either but it is clearly an extreme act of twinkiness and the hallmart of a shitty player to be in a clan which gets hired for assassinations and then perform an assassination after giving staff a heads up. gosh what an awful person i'm glad he's gone, those grapes were probably sour anyway.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
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Post by OT on Apr 8, 2016 19:43:51 GMT -5
But jcarter, someone died. Surely that's bad for the game.
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Post by sirra on Apr 8, 2016 21:59:58 GMT -5
Try, "Picking his fingernails with a sharp blade, the shadowy figure tells lord fancy pants 'You know, I've been paid a lot of sid for your liver. I'm going to take it, just not today.' Shadowy figure slips away." Add to the challenge. Give him a chance to exact revenge on whoever put a bounty on his head. Taunt him. Or, betray the guild, "Lord Fancy Pants, there's a huge bounty on your head. How about you giving me more sid and I'll pretend I never heard it." So this translates to, "Picking his fingernails with a sharp blade, the shadowy figure tells lord fancy pants 'Look at me, get my description, so you can spamwalk to your estate and hide while you put a warrant out for my arrest" Or, betray what should be one of the scariest organizations in the game, your employer, the guys who scratch your back, a totally in-character thing to do. I dunno boss, I don't know how you manage to muster enough faith in other players to think either of these alternatives would end in anything more than the most unfun and unsatisfying of mantis heads. Players like newtwink, myself, yourself Sinister, and many others do start out trying the ridiculously telegraphed way of doing things. We've all long since realized however that sorcerers, psionics, nobles, templars and most of all, staff NPCs, will not even remotely hold themselves to the same standard. Pretty much every degradation in my RP has followed an interaction with a staff animated, or templar, or some other high karma type. I realized that there was no point handicapping myself by trying to adhere to a double standard.
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