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Post by lulz on Jul 11, 2015 15:10:27 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder if there was a point to your post. Diaz 1, 2, 5; GSP is exposed, 209 WHAAAAAAT?!!
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Post by sirra on Jul 11, 2015 15:50:10 GMT -5
Let's not all shit on gloryhound for asking the kind of question that this forum was pretty much made for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:23:49 GMT -5
I wanna see how absurdly contrived gloryhound's hypothetical pro-ranger scenarios get before he admits that he just doesn't really know what he's talking about. For all the failings of the karma system, it does do a relatively decent job of ranking options by order of power, and there's a reason mages begin at 2. Plus the fact that it would take several months of grinding to get a ranger up to seriously badass territory.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 16:29:23 GMT -5
Wasting a thunder on a single beetle makes absolute no sense. Just calm it the fuck down. You've got plenty of time to do it. It's first bite will be eaten by invuln. You'll be able to get off 3 casts by the time it bites you again. And if you got sanc/viv shield, you've got time to endure 5 of its bites. You can basically just ignore a beetle. Again, my experience with enchantment-type spells is that they cannot be relied on. That beetle might just shrug off your attempts to calm it. Even when it doesn't, you're possibly now depleted of mana and the next room could have something else charge in on you. Maybe the problem here is the title I used for the thread, "Vivaduan vs. Ranger". What I meant to get at is that there's just not that much reason to take a Vivaduan along in a group if a decent Ranger is handy. Not about which would win against the other in a fight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:32:03 GMT -5
Let's not all shit on gloryhound for asking the kind of question that this forum was pretty much made for. It's not asking questions, it's making a statement under a weak guise of "x vs. y" and then thread-sitting to post dodgy retorts to everything everybody says, often twisting words into ridiculous scenarios that have no practical application just to defend his "ranger > vivaduan" stance. He isn't wondering, he's soapboxing. And he's being wrong on the internet, which is a sin.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 16:32:53 GMT -5
I'm starting to wonder if there was a point to your post. Diaz 1, 2, 5; GSP is exposed, 209 WHAAAAAAT?!! Here, let me boil down for you. Vivaduans not good in groups? Vivaduans no get asked. Yawn, boring, no play more Vivaduans.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 16:35:49 GMT -5
Let's not all shit on gloryhound for asking the kind of question that this forum was pretty much made for. It's not asking questions, it's making a statement under a weak guise of "x vs. y" and then thread-sitting to post dodgy retorts to everything everybody says, often twisting words into ridiculous scenarios that have no practical application just to defend his "ranger > vivaduan" stance. He isn't wondering, he's soapboxing. And he's being wrong on the internet, which is a sin. To me, you sound like a pack of hyenas, consistently giving the point a miss. That's ok, believe what you want.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:40:35 GMT -5
Vivaduans are excellent in groups.
Healing spells are vastly superior to bandage. You can't bandage unless you're very hurt. Not exactly ideal in a danger situation. It's also seriously twinkish to just pop bandage mid-stride whereas casting a heal is much more reasonable. If you're one of those players who just spam bandage without treating it as an action that takes time and effort, you're cheating and can't really use that as an argument in favor of bandaging.
Tablets don't deal with all poisons. You sometimes can't take a tablet at all. The most commonly used poisons are paralyze and knockout. A viviaduan in the group means nobody really has to worry about poisons (except maybe himself) whereas a group relying on tablets will be hindered by any one person getting poisoned. Tablets are actually of relatively minor use in PvP situations as people aren't going to use the shitty poisons that are easily countered by antidotes.
A ranger can't really feed and water an entire crew unless you send him full-time foraging and his skill is already capped. A vivaduan can, effortlessly. If your group is more than two or three people, a ranger would probably have to spend a couple of hours each day just spam-foraging. Until the skill hits advanced or thereabouts, it takes a lot of effort for a ranger to just keep himself sustained using forage. A loner can subsist on respawning fruits and water holes and such, but they have a finite supply that won't sustain a group of any real size.
I don't know what the point is of using beetles as an argument in favor of rangers. Beetles aren't a serious threat unless your character is freshly made. Once you know the game world and have a decent character, the only serious threats are either huge groups of enemies, which occur in very few places and will fuck just about anyone, and very big hits like falling, backstab, megamobs against which a vivaduan is way better due to their spells. For the most part, the only genuine threat to a real crew of players is going to be PvP or deliberately risky adventures like kryl-farming or sailing around the silt sea.
If anything, it's in groups that vivs shine because others can do the fighting for them and they can support. Vivs will have some trouble doing a lot of PvE fighting by themselves, like say you're clearing your way to the mantis place or some shit like that. They're great in a group. It's literally what the class is designed for, as noted in the documentation (not that this is generally worth much). If the group has a vivaduan and anybody with direction sense, it pretty much doesn't matter what classes the rest are as long as they can handle the combat side of things.
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Post by lulz on Jul 11, 2015 18:37:57 GMT -5
Let's not all shit on gloryhound for asking the kind of question that this forum was pretty much made for. You'd be the one to say that. RANGER WHORE!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:45:43 GMT -5
Why don't vivadians get invited into traveling groups? Vivadians=magickers magickers=bad And if you don't believe they are bad others will exert whatever influence they have to punish you until you agree.
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Post by sirra on Jul 12, 2015 10:56:24 GMT -5
The *really* interesting dynamic is how people treat krathis. They're sort've a walking prisoner's dilemma.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jul 12, 2015 11:09:50 GMT -5
The *really* interesting dynamic is how people treat krathis. They're sort've a walking prisoner's dilemma. how mutch i got 2 pai 4 rangz?
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Post by someguy on Jul 12, 2015 12:51:49 GMT -5
Vivaduans with a couple of spells can easily kill any ranger, no matter how skilled. Can't kill what you can't see.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by my2sids on Jul 12, 2015 14:22:59 GMT -5
I've had one very impressive non-mundane PC and that was my Viv. She fought and lived through: 8+ wezer (survived through paralysis, actually), 3 warrior mantis, 6 tembo, 12 gith, 2 delf krathi + 3 delf mundanes.
Vivaduans are arguably one of the most powerful classes in the game pound for pound (speaking in terms of karma spent.) Combine it with extended subguilds and it's absolutely monstrous. Rangers have more utility, sure, but in a fight with a savvy player such as myself: Viv wins every time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 15:45:04 GMT -5
You won over 2 Krathi at the same time? Whoa. Those must've been pretty noobish krathies. Tongue overcomes silence.
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