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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 1:37:51 GMT -5
What can a Vivaduan really offer that a Ranger cannot?
Food? Ranger can forage it. Water? Ranger can forage it. Healing? Ranger can bandage it. Poisoned? Ranger can cure it. Taint a weapon? Ranger can apply a range of taints. Summon a butt-kicking elemental? Ranger can kick butt on his own.
Not to mention a whole host of other talents a ranger has.
Why would anyone want to bring a Vivaduan along anymore if a seasoned ranger is handy?
I'm starting to think that Vivaduans are redundant as a guild. Sure, there are some differences in the details, but fundamentally, Vivaduans are eclipsed.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 330
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Post by my2sids on Jul 11, 2015 2:24:25 GMT -5
Vivaduans with a couple of spells can easily kill any ranger, no matter how skilled.
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Post by hurrrrrrrrrr on Jul 11, 2015 2:48:25 GMT -5
Kind of reads like a What can a Vivaduan really offer that a Ranger cannot? Food? Ranger can forage it, but it's food so who really gives a shit?Water? Ranger can forage it, but it's water so who really gives a shit?Healing? Ranger can bandage it out of combat, if they remembered to actually skill up + carry bandages.Poisoned? Ranger can cure it after the fact, if it didn't kill you/isn't mon poison.Taint a weapon? Ranger can apply a range of taints, just not lethal fuckballs poison.Summon a butt-kicking elemental? Ranger can kick butt on his own, after 10-20 days played.A well-played, maxed out ranger can do whatever the fuck they want, sure. Magickers don't need to put themselves in danger to get powerful. For PvE it's great, it keeps mundane characters useful. In PvP, who gives a shit? You're literally playing rocket tag at that power level. The first person to get blown the fuck up loses. Vivaduans have a unique strength in their ability to ignore most rockets when paired with good reaction speed.
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deadelf
staff puppet account
Posts: 42
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Post by deadelf on Jul 11, 2015 6:04:37 GMT -5
I'll just add a few notes.
As a companion for exploring: Vivaduan can feed/water many people with little effort. You will forage a long time to get enough water for more than 1 person.
Vivaduan wins when you get jumped by a huge pack of tarantulas, or whatever animal mob is too powerful for you. A spell sends them running and they don't hunt you. Be sure you're riding magi-mounts though...
For solo exploring, I was extremely disappointed to see just how easy it was for a vivaduan. Food/water - don't care. Jumped by a large group? Cast spell and walk away, ranger you have to fight/flee. Animal mob get the jump on you? Viv has spells that prevent the first attack from succeeding. I was not afraid to get jumped by mek, tarantulas, anything animal. I'd just walk that viv anywhere, except d-elf lands and Tuluk, and see what happened. A pack of Kryl finally got him but by then, it was like - someone please kill this guy.
Toward the end, I was sad at how that 15 day viv was much better at surviving in the wilds than my more than one >50 day rangers. The down side was no camaraderie since everyone is supposed to hate wigglers. If I'd been able to find some rogue wigglers it might have been fun. But for me, it was one of the most OP and meaningless characters I've ever had.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 7:45:33 GMT -5
Not sure if serious.
Food is a total non-factor in this game. When has anyone ever starved to death? Any class can subsist in the desert.
See food.
Comparing bandage to healing spells is like comparing the transportational power of a tricycle to that of a freight train.
Same as healing. Tablets can't hold a candle to the cure poison spell.
So can vivaduans.
It would take like six months to train a ranger to the point of being remotely comparable to a month-old mage in terms of combat butt-kicking.
Doesn't hold a candle to what any mage can do.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 8:50:45 GMT -5
Vivadauns beat ranger in PvE no sweat. But in PvP, or anything related to other players really, Rangers overcome Vivs. Comparing Rangers with Vivs in PvP is like comparing Rangers and Warriors. If a Ranger is fighting a Viv in close quarter without some kind of trickery, or an edge prepared, he's an idiot.
Rangers strengths are in their versatility.
Vivs do not have a spell that can deal damage 2-3 rooms away, Rangers can do that.
Rangers got high climb, while Vivs may 'land' safely off cliffs, they may take from 5 to 60 minutes to climb back out.
Rangers can hide/sneak, which is invaluable to a point that if you need it spelled out for you, both your rangers and vivs will suck.
Rangers can track, which is important for finding other people, Vivs are completely useless in that regard.
Rangers can ignore storms and are free to go anywhere, for a Viv a trip that should've taken 5 minutes, can turn into a 60 minute annoyance, where you're cussing under your breath, twiddling your thumbs, and doing fuck all. Or ... continuously recreating magickal mounts to slowly slowly egg onto the right direction. In which case you 'will' probably get there, unless something horrible happens. But if you're meaning to have 'any' kind of secrecy at all about yourself, forget it. You've basically created a long neon sign that says, "Viv Passed Here!"
In conclusion? This is a silly thread, I'm sitting at work, and wondering how productive am I going to be today if I ended up participating in this.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 12:12:20 GMT -5
So if food and water don't matter, that just makes Vivaduans that much less relevant overall, not just when compared to a ranger. Comparing bandage to healing spells is like comparing the transportational power of a tricycle to that of a freight train. You have no idea just how good someone with a maxxed bandage skill is. And someone with bandages can just keep healing, unlike a Vivaduan with limited mana. And you're never more than a salvaged cloak or whatever away from another bandage if you run out. Tablets more than anything else have made Vivaduans unsought for in the game. The days when people would enter the temple dying for a cure are long, long past, much less the days of taking a Vivaduan along. The spell is better, but tablets are good and plentiful enough that it doesn't matter now. The 'poison' spell applies a single sort of taint. If you're saying a Vivaduan can mess around with actual poisoning, good luck, you'll likely use up your entire stock of red leaf or whatever before success. I'm talking about being a part of a group here. It doesn't take six months for a ranger to be able to deal a pounding while someone else shield tanks. Why bring a Vivaduan along, you'll roll lone PCs anyhow. Even solo, a ranger will quickly kick ass with archery, and he can disappear on the sands while doing it. Like 'breathe water'? Or maybe you meant 'create wine'? How about 'silence', that'll sure show those gith, right? 'Intoxicate' might work, against one PC/NPC, then your precious Vivaduan has nothing left. And my experience with those sort of spells is that they cannot be relied on. > cast 'sul un fuck someone up' The target has resisted your spell. > cast 'sul un fuck someone up' The target has resisted your spell. etc. Same to the guy talking about killing mekillots. Maybe your spells always bite. Those of my attempts did not. Also, whoever claims sanctuary makes you nearly immune to damage at higher levels of power is just plain wrong. All casting at higher powers does is extend the duration. It more or less just halves the damage you take.
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Post by sirra on Jul 11, 2015 12:26:18 GMT -5
Rangers and vivuadans do have a tiny bit of overlap, but a vivuadan can be maxed out in a few weeks, and it takes a ranger about six RL months before you want to risk getting into any dick measuring contests with them.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 12:45:30 GMT -5
Vivaduan wins when you get jumped by a huge pack of tarantulas, or whatever animal mob is too powerful for you. A spell sends them running and they don't hunt you. Be sure you're riding magi-mounts though... Jumped by a large group? Cast spell and walk away, ranger you have to fight/flee. Animal mob get the jump on you? Viv has spells that prevent the first attack from succeeding. I was not afraid to get jumped by mek, tarantulas, anything animal. Here is my experience with the 'thunder' spell. > l [In the ass end of nowhere] [NESW] > A huge black beetle arrives from the west. > cast 'mon un vivadu make thunder' > Mists blah blah bam! The huge black beetle flees west. The huge black beetle arrives from the west. The huge black beetle flees west. The huge black beetle arrives from the west. The huge black beetle flees north. The huge black beetle arrives from the east. > cast 'mon un vivadu make thunder' > Mists blah blah bam! > The huge black beetle flees south.. etc. > The huge black beetle arrives from the south. > feel screwed. Not to mention how pissed off your other group members are to be deafened. My point here is that people have little incentive to take a Vivaduan along over a Ranger.
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Post by sirra on Jul 11, 2015 13:02:51 GMT -5
Vivaduan wins when you get jumped by a huge pack of tarantulas, or whatever animal mob is too powerful for you. A spell sends them running and they don't hunt you. Be sure you're riding magi-mounts though... Jumped by a large group? Cast spell and walk away, ranger you have to fight/flee. Animal mob get the jump on you? Viv has spells that prevent the first attack from succeeding. I was not afraid to get jumped by mek, tarantulas, anything animal. Here is my experience with the 'thunder' spell. > l [In the ass end of nowhere] [NESW] > A huge black beetle arrives from the west. > cast 'mon un vivadu make thunder' > Mists blah blah bam! The huge black beetle flees west. The huge black beetle arrives from the west. The huge black beetle flees west. The huge black beetle arrives from the west. The huge black beetle flees north. The huge black beetle arrives from the east. > cast 'mon un vivadu make thunder' > Mists blah blah bam! > The huge black beetle flees south.. etc. > The huge black beetle arrives from the south. > feel screwed. Not to mention how pissed off your other group members are to be deafened. My point here is that people have little incentive to take a Vivaduan along over a Ranger. Thunder is not the vivuadan defensive spell you should be relying on. There's like a seven page thread somewhere on this forum devoted to vivuadans...You should check it out.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5
Kind of reads like a Ranger can cure it after the fact, if it didn't kill you/isn't mon poison.Are you sure about tablets not curing the 'mon' part? If poison kills instantly, your Vivaduan won't do you any good. And if it doesn't, you take a tablet. Big deal, lethal poisoning a bahamet isn't going to help you much while it keeps beating the crap out of your group long before the poison finally finishes it off. Unlike a ranger with say perraine or the sleeping taint. And if the bahamet or PC isn't beating the crap out of your group, you don't need the poison anyhow.
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Post by gloryhound on Jul 11, 2015 13:05:44 GMT -5
Thunder is not the vivuadan defensive spell you should be relying on. There's like a seven page thread somewhere on this forum devoted to vivuadans...You should check it out. According to deadelf it is, I was replying to him. That thread is home to misinformation too.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jul 11, 2015 14:10:53 GMT -5
Kind of reads like a Ranger can cure it after the fact, if it didn't kill you/isn't mon poison.Are you sure about tablets not curing the 'mon' part? If poison kills instantly, your Vivaduan won't do you any good. And if it doesn't, you take a tablet. Big deal, lethal poisoning a bahamet isn't going to help you much while it keeps beating the crap out of your group long before the poison finally finishes it off. Unlike a ranger with say perraine or the sleeping taint. And if the bahamet or PC isn't beating the crap out of your group, you don't need the poison anyhow. viv poyzon iz lyk soopr burn taht damijes str. furthur tehr is no tablit taht cuerz magik poyzon.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 14:16:09 GMT -5
mon poison can be cured. Though eating a single red tablet is not how it happens. Mon poison will also drop your strength. Sul and mon poison I believe lowers a person's strength. CONSIDERABLY. It's more powerful then rukkian's weaken for example. A mon/sul poison basically means you've dropped all your weapons and dont have the strength to even take a cure 'out' of your pack, let alone eat it.
Wasting a thunder on a single beetle makes absolute no sense. Just calm it the fuck down. You've got plenty of time to do it. It's first bite will be eaten by invuln. You'll be able to get off 3 casts by the time it bites you again. And if you got sanc/viv shield, you've got time to endure 5 of its bites. You can basically just ignore a beetle.
Doing a thunder is when you got wtfsurrounded by 15 spiders/kryl and you've just earned yourself a full minute before death. A minute is a 'lot' of time for a mage, or .. anyone really, I guess. Or .. when you're sitting on the edge of the shield wall and got a patrol of mage haters stumble onto you. That's also a funny time to cast a thunder.
If an experienced ranger and a very experienced Viv face each other in close quarters without the ranger having some kind of trickery up his sleeve. Mage will win. 100%. If an inexperienced ranger and an inexperienced viv meet face to face, Viv might win, if he's a little bit prepared.
If an experienced ranger is going archery route, he has a solid chance of winning. But not 100% at all.
If I was forming a group and I had to take a ranger I didnt know anything about and a viv I didnt know anything about, I would take a ranger.
If I know something about both the rangers and the Viv, then fuck their guilds and classes, I'll take the one I know is not a dumbass.
Also. Can someone confirm that you can resist intoxicate? I mean yeah, it's reliant on the environment, but if it's possible to cast it, I thought it's a non-fail cast. Of course someone's alcohol tolerance can be so high, a sul intox might not knock them out. Buuuuuut barring Kuraci, Sun Runners, and occasional Nobles, that's not that many people.
Or Ranger, because the other's a filthy gicker.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jul 11, 2015 14:52:01 GMT -5
i no mon poyzon kan b cyurd bai cyur poyzon spel but chansis r teh nerest viv iz teh 1 tryng 2 kil u. gud luk stufyng ur fayce wit tablits if u kant evn lift tehm. plus if im nto mystakin u kan stak viv poyzon dosis.
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