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Post by yaznokumf on Mar 10, 2014 0:06:42 GMT -5
I've played drovians, and by far their most useful spell is send shadow. I just never really found a use for the ethereal spell. I even had almost all of my gear with ethereal on it so it wouldn't drop. It just seems to have too many limitations. You can't cast while ethereal, you can't carry anything other than the things you've used a component on to make them also ethereal. You can't cast the spell on other people. You can't leave the ethereal state at will since you can't cast dispel ethereal. I guess you could cast ethereal on the components and carry them around with you, but it just seemed like a lot of work without much benefit for the "signature" spell of the class.
Or was I just playing them wrong and didn't see all the uses?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 0:36:03 GMT -5
And in exchange, the drovian has access to 85% of the entire game world. Potentially a drovian can kill off nobility and templars very easily, if he knows what he's doing. As well as toss monkey wrenches into plots that everyone would think infallible.
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Post by yaznokumf on Mar 10, 2014 8:26:16 GMT -5
I'm not arguing that drovians don't have useful spells, or that they are aren't powerful. I just never found a use for the ethereal spell other than as an escape vector. For almost everything that I would have considered using the spell for I could almost as easily use send shadow. I probably explored more than most with the shadow. I was just curious what others thought.
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Post by gloryhound on Mar 10, 2014 13:48:28 GMT -5
Potentially a drovian can kill off nobility and templars very easily, if he knows what he's doing. I'd like to know how you think this is possible. To me, "very easily" means cast one spell and the templar dies. I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to Drovians. If it's more complicated than that, then "flee; flee; flee; n; n; e; n; e; e; n; n; etc." will often put an end to the attempt.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 14:46:53 GMT -5
And in exchange, the drovian has access to 85% of the entire game world. Potentially a drovian can kill off nobility and templars very easily, if he knows what he's doing. As well as toss monkey wrenches into plots that everyone would think infallible. Gotta agree here, especially given the many ways you can indirectly see someone dead, especially if you have unbelievably damning information about them. Also, OP, drovians and vivaduans are the most component reliant flavors of elementalist guild. This is by design, and yes, frankly, if you're out exploring and find a metal doodad, you can come back with a few 'ethereal' components with ethereal cast on them while you are ethereal, wait out the spell time, ethereal the item, and then bring it right the hell out with you, which is insane. Does it take more effort than invisibility? Yeah, but you know, the extra infallible level of being unseen in comparison is pretty sweet. Then, I had a drovian a while back which gave me new appreciation for the guild. You want to talk about fucking with someone? Send shadow to where they are, and use arrange on an item to reflect there being a deeper shadow over it while you're near it. I made a couple people about shit themselves using that. It was one of the most amusing, rewarding scenes. And being good Tulukis, they even brought in a Lirathan to try and kill me. Which was lolworthy since I just 'return'ed and disappeared on her. I'm sure being able to use more than just 'arrange' would make for an even more amusing and/or offputting scene, and I know it allows you to item grab if you have the stuff to make the item ethereal on you too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 14:48:40 GMT -5
Potentially a drovian can kill off nobility and templars very easily, if he knows what he's doing. I'd like to know how you think this is possible. To me, "very easily" means cast one spell and the templar dies. I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to Drovians. If it's more complicated than that, then "flee; flee; flee; n; n; e; n; e; e; n; n; etc." will often put an end to the attempt. I don't know... I'm pretty sure that you could get it done without casting a single spell if you played your cards right and used information to let them damn themselves. And information takes literally no effort to get. Esp when you can 'follow' someone sitting at a table to hear everything at the table, and House Servant subguild grants the listen skill for whispers.
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Post by gloryhound on Mar 10, 2014 15:34:57 GMT -5
anaiah wrote: "You want to talk about fucking with someone? Send shadow to where they are, and use arrange on an item"
I think this is an oversight in the code and should be bugged. Most commands won't let you affect the world while you're manipulating a shadow. But a few have leaked through. Socials, for example, still work, even though your shadow isn't allowed to speak outright. I actually bit someone once with my shadow, something I'm not proud of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 15:48:04 GMT -5
Now, see, if you weren't actively a shadow and didn't arrange it back to what it was, I would have to agree that it's not a great idea. Or if you made anything outrageous happen that wouldn't easily happen, etc. I didn't know there was a way to just 'bite' someone? Is that a social? As that is, it's just giving anyone who is present a chance to look at the area and see that the shadows might be deeper where your SHADOW is. Eh. Everything can be abused. I'm going to go outside and have some coffee.
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Post by yaznokumf on Mar 10, 2014 16:06:26 GMT -5
I agree the send shadow was a great spell, and about the indirect death that information can cause. I didn't know the shadow could arrange anything or interact other than emotes.
Using ethereal was just too much effeort to make it worth it. If I was exploring, I could just use the shadow.
To go and get something, while technically possible, it was too many limitations for my taste. First you have to get the components, so 5 total. Two to make the other two components ethereal, and then one to make you ethereal before you go. You get metal thiny, and now you have to judge the weight and figure out what level to cast the spell at, too little and it still used your component and nothing happens, too much and it blasts it to drov and disappears. So 5 is assuming you already know what level to cast at. The case where I would need to use this is rare.
I did consider doing that have having and elemental follow me to carry my stuff, or just have a magickal mount follow me. But by the time I was at that level, I could just walk with the elemental and just use ethereal if I really needed and escape, which was the only real use I could see for it.
The other part that makes it somewhat of a pain is that you can't "vis" out and become solid again. Which doesn't make anything impossible, it just adds even more inconvenience to the above scenario.
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 10, 2014 16:54:20 GMT -5
But by the time I was at that level, I could just walk with the elemental and just use ethereal if I really needed and escape, which was the only real use I could see for it. You're on the right track, now think offensively and you've got your answer. As with any magicker, (or mundane class for that matter) you can truly ruin someones day if you catch them unprepared. Despite their lack of outright combative spells, Drovians can EASILY catch anyone in the Known with their pants down, and this is their power. My proudest drov-moment was shadowing into a Templar's apartment (why Nobles rent apartments I'll never fucking know...) while he was doing some foreplay with his Aide, giving them my OOC consent for their scene (Someone OOCs: "I consent too, guys."), and then ething in to steal a few things from the other room while they were going at it.
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Post by jcarter on Mar 10, 2014 17:01:44 GMT -5
I'd like to know how you think this is possible. To me, "very easily" means cast one spell and the templar dies. I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to Drovians. If it's more complicated than that, then "flee; flee; flee; n; n; e; n; e; e; n; n; etc." will often put an end to the attempt. I don't know... I'm pretty sure that you could get it done without casting a single spell if you played your cards right and used information to let them damn themselves. And information takes literally no effort to get. Esp when you can 'follow' someone sitting at a table to hear everything at the table, and House Servant subguild grants the listen skill for whispers. When I had a Drovian in like 2006 I was unable to use listen in shadow or eth form. Did this get fixed?
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Lizzie
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Post by Lizzie on Mar 10, 2014 17:30:12 GMT -5
Question: Do you need a component to make anything ethereal, including yourself? What is the component? Does it change based on power level? It seems like you don't want to just use mon on everything, is that correct? Once you cast Ethereal on an item, is it no longer in the physical world? Or does it just become ethereal with you, when you make yourself ethereal?
How exactly does all this work?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 17:33:44 GMT -5
I don't know... I'm pretty sure that you could get it done without casting a single spell if you played your cards right and used information to let them damn themselves. And information takes literally no effort to get. Esp when you can 'follow' someone sitting at a table to hear everything at the table, and House Servant subguild grants the listen skill for whispers. When I had a Drovian in like 2006 I was unable to use listen in shadow or eth form. Did this get fixed? You still pick up more whispers it seems like to me when you have the skill as a player, even passively. I know that you can hear what they're saying at a table with follow on. But my maxed drovian was a tailor, not a house servant. Neri/Azar. Now that was a weird character. Jesus. Heh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 18:34:34 GMT -5
Pick any successful mage out there. I'm not talking about a mage who's branched out and all that stuff. I'm talking about those who have "really" got around. I assure you, in 50% of all the conflicts these mages get into, needing to cast spells for them to win, is not a necessity.
As a Delf hunting a Rukkian, I breath a sigh of relief when I realize that Rukkian's actually relying on sleep/earthquake to win his fights. But when he's just etwoes a maul and looks at me with a smirk, I start to worry.
Now. Imagine being able to be almost anywhere, pop put completely undetected. In key moments. In key spots. Ethereal allows you to be literally plot changing, surgically speaking.
But yeah. It's not demonfire. Cast it and the guy goes down. But if you need to kill a templar and survive. Demonfire wont help you with that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 19:08:45 GMT -5
Pick any successful mage out there. I'm not talking about a mage who's branched out and all that stuff. I'm talking about those who have "really" got around. I assure you, in 50% of all the conflicts these mages get into, needing to cast spells for them to win, is not a necessity. As a Delf hunting a Rukkian, I breath a sigh of relief when I realize that Rukkian's actually relying on sleep/earthquake to win his fights. But when he's just etwoes a maul and looks at me with a smirk, I start to worry. Now. Imagine being able to be almost anywhere, pop put completely undetected. In key moments. In key spots. Ethereal allows you to be literally plot changing, surgically speaking. But yeah. It's not demonfire. Cast it and the guy goes down. But if you need to kill a templar and survive. Demonfire wont help you with that. Thank you, sir. I believe you won the thread.
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