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Post by lulz on Mar 10, 2014 1:09:08 GMT -5
This is what it comes down to:
People don't want to lose their shit. You need me to unpack this for you, let me know.
I'll end with this: staffing a clan/tribe means absolutely dick.
I for one can't believe that you, a player who admitted to having only played one desert elf in your time as a player of Armageddon, were allowed to staff a tribe. You think you were properly equipped with the necessary knowledge, context and experience to roleplay with these people?
I don't even know where to start with the rest of your post. Perhaps I will later if I'm bored and have time to waste.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 1:31:53 GMT -5
Actually it does when it gives you access to shitloads more documentation that the players never get to see, including the history of the tribe, who the elders are, how they think and act, the entire course of plotlines that were recorded over the course of a decade, yes, I think it does, in fact 'mean dick'. And I wasn't asked to be their clan staff. I was -told- to. So I did. How many people have ever played a black robed templar, and staff are able to animate them. Not everyone on staff has even ever necessarily played ANY templar or noble or senior merchant/agent, etc, and yet they are still tasked with running them. So yes, I do in fact believe that there is the necessary context and knowledge. Roleplay with them? I never said I did. I said I was their clan staff. That does not have any bearing on roleplaying with them. In FACT when you are a clan's staff, you are forbidden from running any character with any member of that clan, the only 'roleplay' to be had is through (often infrequent) animations.
As to the rest of my post, there's really no need to bother trying to pick it apart and continue in this vein. I'm so sorry if you played a desert elf and are offended, or ten desert elves. Or a hundred. Just because I have not personally played a dozen desert elves doesn't mean I have had no exposure to any of them. MOST of my exposure specifically has to do with the Red Fangs which are a closed tribe, and for about 8 straight months, there wasn't a day where there wasn't at least an hour spent roleplaying with them. And, you know what? They certainly didn't seem to have any problems with it. I didn't attack anyone or make any sort of slanderous commentary about any individual. I am talking frankly, from the position of someone who's seen that happen with more than just desert elves (I'm sorry, what are these complaints about the xenophobic Tuluk being a ghost town? Relevant, that's what.). I apologize if I upset you or hurt your feelings, so I'm going to just start ignoring whatever it is you have to say until you can be civil again, because otherwise, I'm going to wind up being a real asshole, and I'm not fond of being an asshole, so I try to avoid that where possible.
And, as a last point? The Red Fangs raiding didn't keep people out of the Pah even though people lost their shit. I gotta go with the idea that being pked for the little reason is probably a lot better incentive to stay out, and, whaddya know, now people are.
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Post by lulz on Mar 10, 2014 1:50:41 GMT -5
Shitloads more documentation? Please, I've had access to staff documentation. It's surprisingly sparse, to say the least.
I'll get to the rest of your post later on after work.
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Mar 10, 2014 4:22:51 GMT -5
Make sure you're civil though dude other wise you'll end up, just like the Soh, having pked away all the interaction Regardless thanks for the posts! Really interesting stuff for someone who doesn't have a good handle on the history of the game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 4:32:02 GMT -5
Shitloads more documentation? Please, I've had access to staff documentation. It's surprisingly sparse, to say the least. I'll get to the rest of your post later on after work. Do what you want. I'm done responding to anything you have to say about this subject. If you want to sink time and effort into explaining how lolz I'm wrong, go for it. I appreciate it just as much when it's done to me as when Nyr does it to other people though, and I'm going to give it just as much credence and attention as I would if Nyr chose to. Which is to say: None.
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 10, 2014 8:42:17 GMT -5
You know nothing of what you speak tektolnes, and the fact that anaiah is reccing your shit only further illustrates how much she as a player failed to learn during her time on Armageddon. The SLK are not raid/kill all the time. Look at Masha. Look at Kija. Look at Flint Sky. They were not about (at least during my time) killing for the sake of killing. If you are unwilling to discuss this and are content with retaining your myopic viewpoint, then I feel sorry for you. If anyone needs help/advice/tips on how to roleplay a desert elf, message me. Well, it wasn't my intention to cause insult. I was trying to convey my feelings about the clan overall, regardless of the players in it. (And, with the exception of having heard about Flint Sky a few times, I have no idea who any of those characters are.) Hell, if there was a tribe of elves whose sole purpose in the game was to sneak up on you in the wild, kick you in the balls, and steal your boots there would be good players in it. But that doesn't mean that they contribute meaningfully to the game. My last experience from the tribe came from my last played d-elf (a Sun Runner) about two years ago. At that time, there were a few very well played characters at the time, (Rains Blood, or something like that?) but effectively all they achieved was to chase hunters and gemmers around the Pah. All the inter-tribe roleplay they created, were SLK-SR gemmer chases. Admittedly it's been a good long while since I've looked at the SLK docs, so if they have more going on for them than xenophobic defensiveness and kore worship, I've long forgotten. I like to rag, but I'm far from stubborn and myopic. I would love to hear what else they have going for them, or how they might be made better. But, at this time, my opinion remains that they're an incredibly boring tribe which represents 50% of the playable d-elf options. Edited to Add: Woops, there was a whole 2nd page here.... sorry about this, my post was only in response to the Page 1 posts. I'll have to read this second page later... I have to run
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 9:49:17 GMT -5
I played briefly in the Sun Runners back in 2007 or something and I found it to be a joke tribe with no value whatsoever. While this may be caused in part by the fact that five out of the six other members were mages (seriously), it was really more the fact that the tribe appeared to exist mostly to run around the world selling clothes that nobody wanted - clothes that were loaded up in bulk by staff, not even crafted by the tribe. It was such a hollow and contrived concept, and in the month or so that I kept the character, I never saw a single thing that warranted the tribe's existence in terms of contributing to the game. It was based on absolutely nothing other than someone's desire for there to be a tribe of desert elf "nobility."
The SLK at least were a) created by a player who single-handedly spearheaded the entire desert elf race for RL years and b) felt in touch with the setting, actually moreso than any other tribe in the entire game, even if it did clash somewhat with the way people actually play the game. It felt very much like how a Zalanthan desert elf tribe should feel, but since nobody has any pressing need to venture into the Tablelands and players have a tendency to hate raiding with a laughably OOC fervor, it was always hard for the SLK to coexist with the rest of the playerbase.
Much of the reason that tribes have historically failed to matter on Armageddon is precisely the fact that there's no real friction between them and other demographics. There's no real demand for anything that comes from any specific area, with perhaps the exception of a select few things like silt-horror shells, so tribes don't really have an in-game need to protect their lands. Resources are literally infinite and largely unaffected by the presence of other people, so it's not as though anyone is seriously concerned about depletion. The game doesn't offer the possibility of invading lands in any serious sense, so nobody has a reason to worry about that; you can't even make a desert elf that isn't part of one of the established tribes.
It's like the whole race depends by design on friction and conflict, and yet at the same time, the game's inherent design prevents that from happening. Imagine how much more substance there would be to these tribes if they had to protect their lands from Borsail slavers, from Oashi agents seeking rare plants that only grow there, and from poachers coming in from the city to set up hunting camps and plundering valuable skins and horns with the knowledge that these animals, when killed, stay dead for in-game months. That's to say nothing of rival tribes trying to actually encroach on your land. There's so much potential for this gameplay to be rooted in real demands and consequences, but it just isn't.
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Post by lulz on Mar 10, 2014 10:23:56 GMT -5
I'm going to write a detailed post tomorrow, I swears guyz. Also, what OT said.
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Post by nyrsucks on Mar 10, 2014 10:56:55 GMT -5
I tend to agree that the SLK are too xenophobic and a lot of their interaction with other players is PK. The docs make them highly reliant on martial skill for status. Merchant are second class.
I also hate the limits on player numbers. Let as many people play as want to. It's not as if people are breaking down the door to play. The role is bad enough without further limiting interactions.
As for these "legendary" characters who got shit done? The problem is would any player who did the same thing get the same results? I know when there is staffing changes, there is disparate results from the same actions. Was he good or did staff just like him?
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Post by nyrsucks on Mar 10, 2014 11:02:27 GMT -5
Since a lot of SLK conflict is internal competition, having more than one hunting group with more players could help if they compete in feats.
Also their population is so small they barely rate not being VNPCs.
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Post by chaosisaladder on Mar 10, 2014 12:35:59 GMT -5
lulz, just thought I'd say I appreciate your contributions to the board. You've answered several questions for me thus far. That said... you're being more than a bit of an ass right now to Anaiah for seemingly no reason. Seriously, she did nothing but agree with another player that a faction in the game's concept translated poorly into actually being played. If she had called someone out, maybe disparaged the people who joined it as twinks, I might understand getting defensive. But she didn't. Regardless of whether the criticism is valid or not, you are being a real dick about it.
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Post by themountaingoat on Mar 10, 2014 13:31:04 GMT -5
If I were scoring this exchange, I'd say Anaiah is getting her ass kicked.
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
Posts: 211
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Post by drunkendwarf on Mar 10, 2014 13:47:10 GMT -5
lulz, just thought I'd say I appreciate your contributions to the board. You've answered several questions for me thus far. That said... you're being more than a bit of an ass right now to Anaiah for seemingly no reason. Seriously, she did nothing but agree with another player that a faction in the game's concept translated poorly into actually being played. If she had called someone out, maybe disparaged the people who joined it as twinks, I might understand getting defensive. But she didn't. Regardless of whether the criticism is valid or not, you are being a real dick about it. Agreed. You're being an ass for no reason. You normally aren't.
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Post by chaosisaladder on Mar 10, 2014 14:46:55 GMT -5
Wait, what? So, a city elf warrior with the thief subguild would have the potential for master sneak and hide in the desert AND the city?
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,028
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Post by jkarr on Mar 10, 2014 14:55:56 GMT -5
Agreed. You're being an ass for no reason. You normally aren't. he's just fine in my book i'm also pretty sure lulz could give two shits if ppl are butthurt about how he puts things. now go ahead and post your detailed msg already
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