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Post by nottriste on Jul 11, 2023 21:11:00 GMT -5
Edit: removed superfluous shit talking about internet-famous shit talker PinkErdlu, my previous post said enough.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 12, 2023 0:08:15 GMT -5
Ikthe if you gave me the Apoc code, I guarantee that I could get a MUD to 50+ player peaks within a year. I'll paypal u $500 if I'm wrong in exchange for the code. I'd bet $500 bucks you couldn't accomplish this, without faking network traffic and/or accounts created. Apocalypse isn't perfect but I've seen the code and was impressed by the modifications made to it. Don't live up to the reputation that this forum is full of people who talk shit without producing anything meaningful themselves. Fortunately for you, Icky Ikthe will probably take the code to his grave. He has set up a cult of personality, sans the personality. Consequently, he surrounds himself with women (yuck) and weak-wristed children's storytellers like Metzchutl (titansfan) and Bragi (Miradus) who are probably playing half-elves in Armageddon right now instead of running Apocalypse. 99% of MUD devs are autists or incels who don't have the first clue about marketing or game promotion in the modern day. Literally the rest of the game development industry grasps this, from tabletop Kickstarters to indie Steam devs... and funnily the largest and most successful mud company, Iron Realms. So yeah, I would get it over 50 players peak. Your bipolar ass better start panhandling on the side of the road on the off-chance that Ikthe does the right thing and lets me save the RPI genre. I'll want my $500 immediately and the money from your schizoid fantasies where you're a millionaire developer won't be considered appropriate legal tender.
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Post by nottriste on Jul 12, 2023 0:33:21 GMT -5
Thank you for parodying yourself with this "I alone can fix it" crap, man with baby Trump icon. I think we know who the delusional one is but carry on with cheap lies.
Cheers to the Apocalypse MUD for effectively trolling Armageddon and Armageddon haters alike!
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 12, 2023 0:44:04 GMT -5
I would never lie to you
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sawbot
staff puppet account
Posts: 31
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Post by sawbot on Jul 12, 2023 3:01:39 GMT -5
' Their sdesc had something like breed in it which is why your character running like that was suspicious.' It was 'halfbreed' Like You know You take two things. And throw them together. I had in the back of my mind when I was designing his sdesc, which staff approved, 'There surely isn't going to be some idiot who sees "Half breed" and just assumed breed as in half elf right? He doesn't look anything like a half elf so it should be fine'. I guess I was wrong. 'Long and tall, this man has a height that rivals most elves. Thin wispy hair the color of marble extends down the side of his head and is parted halfway down by yellow pointed ears. He has a slight hunch, which hides his actual height slightly, and his body seems slightly contorted as if whatever created him gave him a rough squeeze prior to exiting the womb. His legs posture oddly but seem perfectly capable of moving along most terrain. It's hard to make out how old the individual is, his yellowed-almost diseased skin and hardened appearance hiding youth or age. Despite some similarities with many of the races of Athas, it's hard to make out quite what he is.' You presumably read this and somehow ignored every gith indicator, which I believe there is one per sentence. You also kept hunt-spamming my tracks to try and I guess meta-guess if I had a spell on, you also did some forced emote 'lowers your hood' that I was fine with because fuck it why not. If you didn't hyper-focus on the whole 'halfbreed' descriptor you'd have noticed he's blatantly gith. I would think with all the code you like using you'd have noticed he was taller than possible for half elves. He was max elf height. 'You weren't either of those things - there was no precedent for half bloods desert running - which is why I'd thought it wasn't possible without magick. ' I told you and hinted I was gith. I told you this. My description tells you this. My description blatantly says he clearly isn't one of the normal races of athas. If you're wondering why I didn't just put 'half gith', I was having a bit of hope people would read. 'Your character wasn't a Gith. If they were a Gith then the question of how are you were desert running would've never come up.' Funnily enough I was coded d-elf, because coded gith have like 500 stamina for some reason and staff thought that was silly. Their stats are also nuts. For fun here's other gith mdescs that are already in game ' This gangly-limbed creature is likely the runt of its kind, small, lanky and hunched. It holds itself in a posture that makes it appear as if it is cowering, beady black eyes darting back and forth as if afraid of its surroundings. Its yellow skin is covered in warts and spots, with scant scars. Strands of scraggly, greasy brown hair have been pulled back in a top knot, keeping it out of their face, and their pointed ears are swept back. Hunched in form and possessing of sun-scorched, leathery skin, this gith appears to have seen its share of time on the sands. Long and lanky legs hang from its bent form, making its true height difficult to determine. Strands of greasy hair has been pulled back, sitting in a knot atop its head, making the garish features of its face more prominent. Sunken, black eyes stare out at the world with malice.' In summary: Black lightning man was right Half-gith aren't Gith the same way half-elves aren't elves. Half-elves don't get running, so why would half-gith? That was my thinking at the time. I never power emoted, I emoted TRYING to lower your hood. You could've just emoted evading it if you wanted to - nothing about the emote forced you to act in a certain way. I was tracking because we'd followed the tracks from the defiled area.. to you. The tracks matched up. In hindsight it was probably just wrong place, wrong time, in that you'd found the newly defiled area before I had.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
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Post by punished ppurg on Jul 12, 2023 16:59:25 GMT -5
If you had a way to knock home boy out, tie him up, and interrogate him, then this circumstance wouldn't have come to pass. This is one of the weak points that I've come to define in Armcore, and maybe I'll type up thoughts on it later.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Jul 12, 2023 18:42:37 GMT -5
Bash + threaten.
Not that I disagree, the game is incredibly sparse when it comes to forcing a situation, but the mechanical ability is mostly there.
I only suggested bash and threaten because the person who murdered me was a combat class, and used bash + their pal to reel lock my ass on the floor.
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sawbot
staff puppet account
Posts: 31
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Post by sawbot on Jul 13, 2023 6:08:39 GMT -5
Threaten is only going to be used in circumstances where you've clearly got someone at your mercy. Which is almost never since every class other than merchant has a FUCK YOU GET REKT spell/skill. Unfortunately, DIKU rewards the one who initiates code first.
Since I'd genuinely thought the character in question was a sorcerer from my pov anything but a bash was potentially inviting a mon demonfire or worse.
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Post by psyxypher on Jul 15, 2023 22:54:45 GMT -5
I think that it clearly speaks to why Apocalypse/Armageddon suffers so, when people talk themselves into killing/ending concepts on first blush because there's no tangible mechanisms of agency otherwise. It stands to reason that as people mature in the MUDDING world, as they become capable of investing more thoughts and process into their characters, they shy away from the (by definition) volatile environments where their investments do not give dividends. Honestly I think Arm/Apoc suffers from just being a permadeath PvP game and all the problems that come with it.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Jul 16, 2023 18:22:54 GMT -5
TBH other than Arm and Apoc and 'playing' harshlands (AKA walking around feeling like a dumb bitch because I'm dumb as hell and their world is gigantic and I'm too lazy to RP) I've never seen what other perma-death game spheres look like.
Is everywhere dog shit or just here
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 16, 2023 19:27:33 GMT -5
TBH other than Arm and Apoc and 'playing' harshlands (AKA walking around feeling like a dumb bitch because I'm dumb as hell and their world is gigantic and I'm too lazy to RP) I've never seen what other perma-death game spheres look like. Is everywhere dog shit or just here I mean, you would've gotten a very different answer 20 years ago. The reality is that the permadeath/RPI genre is looking very dead compared to where it used to be. RPIs in general have this very strange problem of complacent stagnation, because the majority of staff would rather cheat/mudsex/roleplay on their avatars than drive the game's story or world forward. Instead of y'know... running the game, they'd rather guilt players into thinking that they need to be cultivating/running their own plots and storylines despite the Diku and RPI codebases not providing the simplest, most barebones mechanics for player-ran stories. Compared to most MUSHs or MUX, players have very few avenues to exert themselves over the gameworld... outside of, you guessed it, PERMANENTLY KILLING other players. It's not a very good system when you have a lazy, uninspired, cheating staff team and socially stunted players that get more or less get rewarded for playing rocket tag and nuking their adversaries from orbit with magick/poison/buffed stats/backstabs/saps/bash/charges that allow for near instantaneous PKs if you're competent. Diku / Armageddon is the worst culprit because it's combat is the oldest, quickest and most lethal. They take pride in how unbalanced it is mechanically. They take pride in how grindy it is. Then there's idiots like you that push the whole 'code is rp' gimmick that's used time and time again to justify shit roleplay and shitty behavior like Luke/Sawboner ganking you because he was bored. RPIs used to provide for the deepest immersion and roleplay given the lack of OOC channels, prohibition on sharing IC information, permadeath, etc. Atonement was pretty much the peak of the genre because it combined resource scarcity with small-group rivalries and warfare. It had a contiguous metaplot that combined grimy sci-fi with outerspace horror. The playerbase was notably more mature and grounded than in Armageddon, and people were often spared death in the interest of the storyline, as there were often bigger fish to fry than other players. It had it's flaws, but I'm glad it ended at it's peak instead of slowly sputtering to death like less dignified RPIs that are still on the market.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Jul 16, 2023 20:27:46 GMT -5
So what you're saying is permadeath is permadead
"Then there's idiots like you that push the whole 'code is rp' gimmick that's used time and time again to justify shit roleplay and shitty behavior like Luke/Sawboner ganking you because he was bored. " Do I push 'code is RP"? I thought I was pretty neutral on that whole ordeal, it hasn't come up in a long while. I thought my position was pretty heavy in 'Please use your brain and roleplay'.
"RPIs used to provide for the deepest immersion and roleplay given the lack of OOC channels, prohibition on sharing IC information, permadeath, etc." Can't say I've ever seen this. Not because it never happened or happened, but because Arm/Apoc have possibly the brain-deadest game systems I've ever seen for immersive roleplay. I get more immersive roleplay in Space Station 13 and I'm usually just running people over with robots.
I still think a game like Arm won't work unless the majority of the game's antagonism comes from non-players. But thats only barely related
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Jul 16, 2023 23:26:08 GMT -5
"Then there's idiots like you that push the whole 'code is rp' gimmick that's used time and time again to justify shit roleplay and shitty behavior like Luke/Sawboner ganking you because he was bored. " Do I push 'code is RP"? I thought I was pretty neutral on that whole ordeal, it hasn't come up in a long while. I thought my position was pretty heavy in 'Please use your brain and roleplay'. Sorry, I think I misinterpreted one of your GDB posts. You do have a somewhat similar stance in that CODE TRUMPS EVERYTHING but I guess it's more in a quirky like... "please represent all your thoughts/intentions/actions with coded commands to justify yourself at all times" which is only a slightly more acceptable way of essentially letting people get away with permadeath insta-gankings under the notion that it was good roleplay. Give people thicker health pools, reduce top-tier strength buffs, and add a good "incapable" or "downed" mechanic that gives people ample opportunity to roleplay their deaths or get healed, and I think you solve a lot of crappy deaths in Armageddon and Apoc. It took me ~12 years of RPIs to conclusively realize that the "Killer" archetype is much more of a detriment to any good game, than a positive contributor. I still think a game like Arm won't work unless the majority of the game's antagonism comes from non-players. But thats only barely related I'd say that's pretty strongly related to my post. I agree. An overarching metaplot that introduces meaningful enemies that pose a real threat will improve a RPI. It would have less of a positive effect in a game like Arm because the clan dynamics are so shitty. The noble houses, merchants and commoners/rinthis have just never meshed in a compelling way. The different roles or classes (social/political) don't have good, justifiable avenues of interaction. The way that the game is designed, from the lore to the clans, encourages the inane gameplay loops and copy-and-paste that make up the bulk of Armageddon today. Anyway, I've written about this in more detail in old posts. Armageddon does a lot of things wrong, but it used to thrive because of a compelling setting, lots of driving activity/roleplay and its uniqueness. The setting is less compelling than it was 20 years ago, and it has none of the driving activity or good roleplay anymore. Still pretty unique. But all good things die eventually.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Jul 17, 2023 0:31:04 GMT -5
"Give people thicker health pools, reduce top-tier strength buffs, and add a good "incapable" or "downed" mechanic that gives people ample opportunity to roleplay their deaths or get healed, and I think you solve a lot of crappy deaths in Armageddon and Apoc."
I mostly agree.
""please represent all your thoughts/intentions/actions with coded commands to justify yourself at all times" which is only a slightly more acceptable way of essentially letting people get away with permadeath insta-gankings under the notion that it was good roleplay."
I think you're misunderstanding my feelings on that one scenario (My gith died) for my total overall feelings about the situation (I wouldn't have been mad if my Gith died for X, but he died for Y so I was annoyed). In general I think insta pk nonsense is going to make you look like a dumb bitch no matter what, the guy even tried justifying it with his own view of the situation, and while I was arguing basically 'The entire situation looked like X, but you thought Y, KYS' I neglected to mention that I have this part in my brain that is basically 'Anyone who plays the game like this is a fucking asshole and is ruining the game', I just didn't feel like it was as important.
Also I'm not trying to drag you back into that discussion by the way, just getting my thoughts out. Trying to avoid looking like I'm cringy trying to keep beating a dead kank.
" Give people thicker health pools, reduce top-tier strength buffs, and add a good "incapable" or "downed" mechanic that gives people ample opportunity to roleplay their deaths or get healed, and I think you solve a lot of crappy deaths in Armageddon and Apoc. It took me ~12 years of RPIs to conclusively realize that the "Killer" archetype is much more of a detriment to any good game, than a positive contributor."
A weird ass part of me wants health pools to be stupid low (A la dnd) so that weapon hits just fucking murder people sometimes, and that combat get hella slowed down. I have no idea how you'd make this system not suck. You probably couldn't. But still, I dunno. It speaks to me spiritually.
"The noble houses, merchants and commoners/rinthis have just never meshed in a compelling way."
Despite the game being so god damn antagonistic I find that the noble houses and merchants have never had any actual conflict. This is excluding the 'This person is now not single so I must kill their mate and be snarky' plots or the 'Staff told me to be a dick to House Green this month because of a resource that doesn't matter and if I get it or not changes nothing'.
I think the weird specialization of the matter, both hyper specialized and not specialized enough, adds to this factor. House X does Y, House Z does A. House X and Z have no reason to really fight. When noble houses are primarily similar things, usually farming rights and land, congrats...we got shit to argue about. Gimme your land. You stinky bitch. Obviously you can still find reasons to hate someone, and have good reasons to do so (Outside of the folly of man: Politics), but when Borsail is concerned with the product of slavery rape and Fale is in the business of...uh, ..making me question staffs lore writing abilities, you don't get cross over there.
With the merchant houses it feels arbitrary that it's sometimes like 'Salarr good weapons and everyone want be salarr' and then kurac goes 'But me have weapon too!' but....they have no real need to sell those weapons. I think I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, and there is usually not a simple answer to these. It's also heavily influenced by how I just fucking hate what Arm did with most of their social groups and castes. Templars and Nobles feel too samey, Templars feel useless 90% of the time, I'm a boring bitch and want merchant guilds that focus on a single thing and do boring politics, I'm a boring bitch and want nobles to just be land owners first and quirky second. (A noble house of warriors!? Cool they must simply train and raise knights for the military!...Oh they just...jerk off in the academy all day?...oh)
"The different roles or classes (social/political) don't have good, justifiable avenues of interaction."
I just spent a lot of words saying your one sentence, but I guess with more anal details.
"The way that the game is designed, from the lore to the clans, encourages the inane gameplay loops and copy-and-paste that make up the bulk of Armageddon today."
The way the game is designed, both lore wise and in practice and in fucking documentations, is counterintuitive as hell. This is meant to be a game where you can murder-fuck-betray your way into power, with very few avenues of doing so. This ties back a little bit to the 'Please give me avenues to do more shit other than murder people' but even just staff support is nonexistent. Want to bribe your way into some info? Have fun being betrayed by 1400 shadow cabal wizards staff decided just so happen to exist. Doing something that would be a footnote in a fantasy novel 'I bribed my way into getting a chef uniform and entering the noble's house without arousing suspicion!' becomes a 1437 message discussion with staff where they decide you got found out before you even told them your idea.
"Armageddon does a lot of things wrong, but it used to thrive because of a compelling setting, lots of driving activity/roleplay and its uniqueness."
I will caveat agree to this with the caveat being it wasn't driving activity/roleplay, it was driving individual improvement when the staff fancied it. Which may seem like the same god damn thing but I'm ranting anyway. I guess I'm being anal but when I see 'driving roleplay/activity' I think of a game that has good systems in place to support players doing things the code itself doesn't let you do, while I'll say I've mostly seen individual players (Not the system) be able to take charge and do stuff instead. So it isn't, to me, 'Oh the game had such a good plotline going' it was 'So and so had staffers help and that plot so and so did was good'. Which I think has led us to our current issues. I was able to get A LOT DONE when my staffer liked me. I would unironically have agreed 'Oh yeah you can do anything in armageddon'. And then the staffer would get told no by his staff, or the staffer would leave, and now I can't do shit. That then leaves me with searching for people 'who roleplay good' or, as well, 'get shit going'. Which basically means THAT person had the same staff love I used to have, and I'm chasing them for staff-love-by-proxy.
"The setting is less compelling than it was 20 years ago" Which kinda sucks. From my understanding Dark Sun peaked/was super popular late 90's? So we are playing a game that was made after a game that's been basically dead for 23 years.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
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Post by punished ppurg on Jul 17, 2023 11:06:43 GMT -5
GAME OF THRONES SECONDARIES RUINED ARMAGEDDON.
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