machina
staff puppet account
Posts: 1
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Post by machina on Feb 27, 2023 23:00:59 GMT -5
Demanding a "cool off" period or "timeout" is hilariously apt. Armageddon staff is tired of metaphorically spanking people for perceived misdeeds so they're just locking the kids in their rooms.
What's fucked up is they aren't locking people up for actual misdeeds or misbehavior. Armageddon staff are like parents who sexually abuse their children, and then tell them, "Don't tell anyone," or, "If you tell anyone, I'll punish you." Silencing people is part and parcel with abusing them.
Survivors of sexual abuse like this often have a dilemma. If they comply, they might even get perks from their abuser and more love than their peers. If they do not comply, they will just get hurt on top of the abuse they've already survived.
We don't even need any more evidence to come to the fore. I am not surprised that many of the people abused had substantial perks before/during/after their abuse. I am not surprised at the great lengths staff go to in order to silence discussion and hide the facts.
~ love, someone who was banned for breaking literally no rules
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Post by blahblahblah on Feb 27, 2023 23:21:27 GMT -5
Sprinkles here,
I'm sorry that you had to deal with this for so long, Bebop.
Years ago, some of what happened was briefly mentioned to me, but it was framed as everyone involved being against Shalooonsh, and being being untruthful. I believed it at the time, and I haven't personally had problems with Shalooonsh, but I fully believe you and am disappointed in his actions and the actions of people that knew the truth and silenced others for speaking out. The reason I heard about it at all was because I was talking with him about Nergal going nuclear on my character and his for seemingly no reason. I apologize if I ever played any part in your being unhappy playing the game you loved, having even briefly been on staff.
I wasn't fully open about why I quit when I did. I was getting very frustrated watching some people break the rules and nothing happening to them, then how some people were seemingly crushed under a staffer's thumb. There was one noble that had made some kind of error and was denied her stipend, for example, and she had found a way to thrive and make money. That seemed to piss some people off, and they kept poking at her ICly and seemingly to try to get her to fail. I asked other staffers when the money restriction would be lifted, and wasn't given an answer. To me, a punishment should have a beginning and firm ending, so I was pretty disillusioned.
There was also the fact that when I joined staff, I was very clear in mentioning that I had reservations about being part of the team because of accusations of stalking. The FIRST thing Brokkr did when I met everyone together was mention not only the state where I lived, but the town and the fact that he was only a couple hours away. I was pretty shocked and was combing my memory, but I am fairly certain that I never mentioned where I live until that point. And CERTAINLY not my town. I had problems with enforcing boundaries back then, so I laughed it off, but I was pretty freaked out. It's another reason I bailed, it didn't feel safe.
(edit: Oh, and by the way. This is probably a duh, but I met Nyr a bit after I joined up in the GM area. I was pretty surprised, but there he was.)
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Post by donglepants on Feb 28, 2023 3:04:05 GMT -5
hey, what's up, OHST here.
silence is complicity.
i support Bebop and Delirium in their statements. neither story is mine to tell, but i have known both of them for years and can corroborate things both have said.
if i have to burn my bridge with this game for this, so be it. not like i've played in the better part of 5 years now.
i might have more thoughts on this later.
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val
staff puppet account
Posts: 28
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Post by val on Feb 28, 2023 7:32:28 GMT -5
Hey Bebop,
Thank you so much for pointing me to your thread over here. I'm sorry that you had to go through all this. The way you've been treated, the gaslighting involved, the tone policing, closing the paths for people to discuss their thoughts and feelings and protests, the doubling down, it all has been so sadly characteristic of responses to whistleblowing about sexual harassment and assault everywhere. The situation is terrible, the response has been unacceptable, and I'm so very sorry that you're going through this.
I've left Armageddon and stand in solidarity with you. I tried to respond to the second DM you sent me, but by then you were banned. I've changed phones so many times that I don't still have your number. If you want to stay in touch, I'm no longer on Facebook. Feel free to send me a DM over here and I'll send you my Discord handle. (The same goes for anyone over here who I know under different names who I've fallen out of with and want to catch up.)
As far as you, Bebop, thank you for having the strength and the strength of character to put all this out there. Every single thing that you're feeling is valid, and I'm sending you my support and well-wishes.
- val
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deadelf
staff puppet account
Posts: 42
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Post by deadelf on Feb 28, 2023 7:55:13 GMT -5
This is sad. I don't play anymore. Don't even have a pc in the game so I can't quit in support. Life is short, remember the good, walk away from the bad.
Good luck.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 8:25:28 GMT -5
I can only say and show so much without giving away who I am, and I would like to stay here and report inside information, but Halaster, Brokkr, and the admins don't plan on fixing this problem.
Regarding sexual harassment: They plan on writing a very mild rule about OOC sexual harassment, saying it is not allowed to sexually harass people on the GDB, Discord, DMs. But they don't plan to address IC direct or indirect sexual harassment at all. It is allowed as a form of conflict if, for example, Amos tells Bob that Talia likes it rough and should be woken up with rough sex, even if Talia overhears.
Regarding Shalooonsh: They don't plan on banning Blaze, which is Shalooonsh's player account, and intend to let him play if he wishes. One of the administrators floated the idea of letting Shalooonsh rejoin the staff team under a new name as a storyteller. It's not clear to me what the producers think about this.
Regarding community administration: They don't plan on unbanning anyone they banned or restoring threads back to their normal state. The GDB will likely stay closed for the rest of the week unless Halaster changes his mind. Same goes for the official discord server.
Regarding Nessalin: He was already quite tired of the game before his retirement a few months ago, and wanted a temporary break from the game. When he checked in this weekend he expressed his displeasure with what was happening, and determined he no longer wanted a part of it.
They don't plan on doing anything until they decide who the third producer will be to replace Shabago. They're having a hard time now.
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Post by kalandolmas on Feb 28, 2023 8:54:48 GMT -5
Hi. POF Rehema Borsail here, also known as HazelHomewrecker on the GDB and Hazel in the discord.
I wanted to chime in now that the registration was open, and especially now that I'm seeing what exactly staff plan on doing in response to this going further--or rather, what exactly they plan on NOT doing.
Bebop brought up that Kitanius was played by Shalooonsh, who claims that character was a 'resource' for other players to get their personal plots off of the ground, and that's so fucking laughable. Every plot in the south went through Kitanius, and let me explain this in a bullet point system because I literally cannot be assed to write it all out in great detail, not for as much as he got.
1:) The Bashurit. Kitanius met the Bashurit way back before I even played Rehema, and we discussed them on my Merchant named Malaya Kadius. So, not only did he 'discover' them, but he established official Allanak trade from his position of power. What gives me a big laugh thinking back on it, was during the Ocotillo Festival where someone on staff animated the Lord Dragon Viskarinus Oash to bring in the Bashurit mead or wine, whatever it is, the NPC congratulated Zherixes Tor and gave him credit for establishing trade relations. Kitanius was PISSED, and was super fucking whiny about the entire thing and about how he 'didn't get credit.' but he was admin of the Bashurit and none of the other staff ever gave this the side eye? Weird. But yeah, thinking about Looon pissraging in his dingy bedroom about how he didn't get credit for the thing he abused his position on staff to get in the first place was HILARIOUS.
2:) The Tor Academy. Honestly, a shit show at its finest, a glorified sparring ring for the four noble PC's in the south and their respective aides. I don't have anything to say about Hestia's running of it because I don't really care, but Kitanius was the one who pushed for it to be opened in-character. KITANIUS got to do the negotiating, KITANIUS got to fund it, and KITANIUS got to be the first to post and revive their threads on the GDB (this was SOOO cringey, he made a HUGE line in his post with huge text saying that he was FIIIIIIIIIIIRST). Not only that, but the other noble at the time, Alatheria Fale, got shoehorned into a Tor marriage by the relevant staff because it was convenient even if it didn't progress the character at all.
3:) The Shadowstone, and the Silver Karambit. If any of you remember the Ocotillo Festival from this year, and the Salarri auction that took place, you'll remember all the commoner PC's being asked to leave the pavilion. This was because two things needed to be sold, which i still think was dumb as fuck but whatever. First, the Shadowstone (a unique weapon ingredient made by alchemical purposed by Viktor Rennik a staffified-once-PC-now-NPC), came up between Kitanius AND Viskarinus Oash (NPC). They bid like crazy over it but obviously Kitanius got it, because.. y'know, Shalooonsh. Then, the Silver Karambit came out and I was trying to bid on it because my character was obsessed with gold and silver and metal. HOWEVER, the staff still animated the Oash NPC to out-bid me and get it for 40k coins, lmfao. An NPC who NEVER SHOWED HIS FACE AGAIN for the next SEVERAL MONTHS (even up until I stored) got a super rare item, made from silver and ancient kank shell, instead of a PC because.. what? This part still stings me to this day.
4:) The Book. The infamous sorcerer book from the infamous auction in Luir's Outpost. I remember laboring SO fucking hard to get this book, putting so much of my time and effort into scrounging up coins and connecting with other characters and organizations to make deals and make sure we had enough to secure it. Which we did, barely. Unfortunately, this plot that took up the majority of my life for a month, was never really MEANT for me, despite the fact that it started with the hook of being related to Ariannah Borsail ages ago, because.. what was a borsail going to do with a sorc tome? It was completely against the documentation of the House to even entertain keeping it around her, so we had no choice but to ultimately give it to Kitanius who was going to 'decode it' over time. Well, at least THAT didn't go according to plan when the book was stolen because I gave staff permission to use my PC after my storage.
5:) Kitanius vs. Sandomir Sath. This was.. now that I'm reflecting on it, horrible. I feel so bad for whoever played Sandomir, because he was relentlessly abused by Shalooonsh in-character, even if he was a bit of an idiot sometimes, and was ultimately pushed and punished by staff for being cornered BY staff and lashing out because of it. We managed to all simultaneously gang up on Sandomir from Kitanius' urgings, and I presume this has something to do with some level of OOC conflict, or OOC vendetta because literally why else? Sandomir wanted to be a part of things, and we closed ranks (at this point, remember, we all still thought Kitanius was a PC, not that this excuses the behavior but it at least makes me feel better marginally) and shut him out, and got him executed by staff in an unfair duel to the death.
I'm glad that I'm detaching myself from the game and the people who harbor sexual predators on their staff. I have no intention of playing it again, and thus no fear of retaliation of any kind--because I could not care less about my game account anymore.
EDIT: The point of this message isn't the boo-hoo about myself at all, and I was encouraged by Bebop to share my experience with Kitanius. I felt extremely side-lined plot-wise, just as Alatheria was, for the sake of 'the boys' getting their fancy plots. This was a consistent issue, both female players were left behind in the metaphorical dust so that Shalooonsh could continue to play out his fantasy of being popular and well-liked, charismatic and charming. Another thing to remember, is that Gynesis has played Rika of the Savvy Spiders, produced her own independent company and was getting staff favoritism on her end to make sure the company became a minor merchant house as fast as possible. Meanwhile, Eastrook, a beloved player-run portion of the southern game, got shafted at every turn because the things they needed to do were obscured behind veils that only staff truly understood. At the same time, Rika and Kitanius were best buddies and Kitanius was sponsoring her in the upcoming Senate Meeting RPT to get her clan bumped up in-game. So, if I had to guess what administrator was floating around the idea to let Shalooonsh stay on staff as a new ST under a new name, it's probably her.
This is just a reminder that when staff say they aren't doing something, or aren't supposed to be doing something, they're 100% doing it behind the scenes. You can't trust them not to do whatever they want, to play their special characters who have special treatment in the game from their friends. It's ridiculous, and I've noticed it the entire time i've played.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 330
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Post by my2sids on Feb 28, 2023 9:42:23 GMT -5
Absolutely unsurprising that not even a year after me, delirium, and ender expressed our wishes to never be bothered by certain parties on staff - staff are ready to close ranks and then continue as though nothing happened and no one is culpable for this rape culture. -Friday
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 113
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Post by ask on Feb 28, 2023 9:51:23 GMT -5
Absolutely unsurprising that not even a year after me, delirium, and ender expressed our wishes to never be bothered by certain parties on staff - staff are ready to close ranks and then continue as though nothing happened and no one is culpable for this rape culture. -Friday I've always thought this was so ridiculous. They had more staffers recently than they've probably ever had on staff, and you're telling the players it's "too hard" and "not feasible" to have someone else communicate with them? They've got a staffer for nearly every big clan, how lazy and enabling can they be? Oh, wait. We know the answer to that.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 330
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Post by my2sids on Feb 28, 2023 9:56:23 GMT -5
I had some minor beef with staff and what happened was that my Templar aide was railroad murdered by a Templar NPC. I was repeatedly harassed by one or more staff members throughout my play on that character. It was blatant enough that while shabago admonished me for bringing it up " rudely "... But he still admitted that there was grievous misconduct on staff.
How bad does the misconduct have to be for them to admit wrongdoing? Pretty bad I would assume.
I was told by a friend on staff that shaloonsh was on thin ice after that and was not allowed to come near me under any circumstance. Still, after that I was still not granted my wish that I didn't have to interact with certain staff members.
As a matter of fact shaloonsh made a point to resolve any request that I had if he got to them first.
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delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
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Post by delirium on Feb 28, 2023 10:04:32 GMT -5
Absolutely unsurprising that not even a year after me, delirium, and ender expressed our wishes to never be bothered by certain parties on staff - staff are ready to close ranks and then continue as though nothing happened and no one is culpable for this rape culture. -Friday And that was our compromise because the staff body refused to hold anyone accountable. Player mistakes or frustration are a black mark forever but staff get carte blanche, etc etc. Let's not forget in all this furor that while Shaloonsh is the main bad actor, Shabago was his enabler and also a bad actor in their own way- and don't get me started on Hestia's insensitive, out of touch bullshit when I tried so hard to meet them in the middle and gently explain things while standing up for myself. I remember it taking a two hour conversation to get Hestia to agree to fully implement a less male-centric, less gendered version of documentation that had already been approved by the staffer I'd worked with on it before (who Hestia was replacing). They literally could not understand why the wording of things mattered until I point by point explained and brought up an old request chain with the previous staffer (and then they asked why I was showing them a 2 month old request, so I had to explain even more). OHST, if you still have proof of That Picture and any record of the convo it'd be appreciated, but thats probably a tough ask since it was many years and phones ago.
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Post by belgoikiss on Feb 28, 2023 10:08:08 GMT -5
Hey. I had to chime in. I was the person in Bebop’s post who Loon took it upon himself to contact my husband about. I have been Bebop's friend since 2006ish and I was on every sobbing phone call with her as she told me the horrible shit he did. I was there when she called me in a panic because he was messaging her with that fucking picture of her business letting her know he was in town- after she told him to cease and desist about 75,000 times. After the rational requests didn’t work I remember me talking her through a fuckin cease and desist letter so she could have a paper trail for her protection if he got dangerous.
How many times he came crawling to my husband crying over how Bebop wont let him (s)talk to her. How many times my husband had to tell his punk ass to stop contacting her. FOR YEARS.
I have more to say but I can’t spend the time right now. I’ll chime back in later.
He’s a snake in the grass and being enabled and will continue to be enabled. Gross AF
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
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Post by bebop on Feb 28, 2023 10:11:12 GMT -5
I had some minor beef with staff and what happened was that my Templar aide was railroad murdered by a Templar NPC. I was repeatedly harassed by one or more staff members throughout my play on that character. It was blatant enough that while shabago admonished me for bringing it up " rudely "... But he still admitted that there was grievous misconduct on staff. How bad does the misconduct have to be for them to admit wrongdoing? Pretty bad I would assume. I was told by a friend on staff that shaloonsh was on thin ice after that and was not allowed to come near me under any circumstance. Still, after that I was still not granted my wish that I didn't have to interact with certain staff members. As a matter of fact shaloonsh made a point to resolve any request that I had if he got to them first. It's so interesting how formulaic people's experiences are with people. This, in and of itself, becomes a manner of proof when someone outs an abuser. It's never a coincidence that multiple women have the same exact story. I have more screenshots of these exact behaviors that myself and Belgiokiss experienced. -Shalooonsh replying to our requests or our boards even though we didn't want contact and even though he wasn't our staffer. -When Altair was killed Shabago told me the exact same thing, that I should check my tone of anger and apologize. Regretfully, I did so. I didn't want to contribute to staff burnout. I even sent a bunch of kudos after being guilt tripped like that. How dare I be upset. It was another thing that didn't sit right with me. It was more gaslighting and forced groveling. So many of us have stories that all line up in addition to the screenshots and logs. Meanwhile, staff are being petty and altering people's posts to say allegedly when my husband defends me. Seeing a staff member alter my husband's post to say her alleged abuser was so sickening last night before the boards were down. Not only are they not apologizing and condemning both the abuse and huge breech of staff trust they're banning and bullying those affected. It's gross.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 330
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Post by my2sids on Feb 28, 2023 10:15:27 GMT -5
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val
staff puppet account
Posts: 28
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Post by val on Feb 28, 2023 10:22:07 GMT -5
The only reason I even decided to give things a try again after that entire delirium/Ender fiasco was that Halaster at least tried. I have very little doubt about which of the two people controlling the direction of a game is the source of the current terrible praxis. Even if everyone on staff who had any place in the decision tree for Bebop's complaints stepped down, it wouldn't undo the very real harm that's been caused.
In any case, it's no longer my problem or worry. I'm really sad to close the book on this long chapter of my life after having met so many wonderful people through Arm, but what I'm much more sad and upset about is that wonderful people have been hurt.
delirium, I don't have The Picture, but I was there when it was taken. I remember you asking that the picture not be taken.
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